Obama intends an up-or-down vote on health reform

[Beckwin]

Just got an email from El Presidente's camp, and it notably includes this:

I strongly believe that Congress now owes the American people a final vote on health care reform. Reform has already passed the House with bipartisan support and the Senate with a super-majority of sixty votes. Now it deserves the same kind of up-or-down vote that has been routinely used and has passed such landmark measures as welfare reform and both Bush tax cuts.

So, what's in the plan?

Essentially, my proposal would change three things about the current health care system:

First, it would protect all Americans from the worst practices of insurance companies. Never again will the mother with breast cancer have her coverage revoked, see her premiums arbitrarily raised, or be forced to live in fear that a pre-existing condition will bar her from future coverage.

Second, my proposal would give individuals and small businesses the same choice of private health insurance that members of Congress get for themselves. And my proposal says that if you still can't afford the insurance in this new marketplace, we will offer you tax credits based on your income -- tax credits that add up to the largest middle class tax cut for health care in history.

Finally, my proposal would bring down the cost of health care for everyone -- families, businesses, and the federal government -- and bring down our deficit by as much as $1 trillion over the next two decades. These savings mean businesses small and large will finally be freed up to create jobs and increase wages. With costs currently skyrocketing, reform is vital to remaining economically strong in the years and decades to come.

I'm interested in the second point most. Is he referring to a public option (aka, what Congressmen have) or an exchange equivalent (non-profit, same coverage, same prices)?

I'd definitely like a universal system, but if this can work better than what we've got now, it seems to be better than nothing. The key is going to be bringing costs down, though. And it's nice to see that reconciliation in on the table (although if that's the case, I'm hoping his second point is referring to a public option).

[Kuya]

The Congress owes the American people? Mr. President, you and your staff have been working to undermine a public option from the very start. So trying to dish the blame over this fiasco on Congress is hardly going to do. Need i remind you that Rahm Emmanuel is your pet, not Congress'.

[Rhinox]

Pipe dream.


This is Obama's and the Democrats Waterloo. Jim DeMint was right. Quite frankly if Harry reid and Obama don't want to call the GOP bluff of a filibuster and only the fucking threat of one stops any sort of significant reform they don't deserve to be in power.

Fuck them

[Beckwin]

The Congress owes the American people? Mr. President, you and your staff have been working to undermine a public option from the very start. So trying to dish the blame over this fiasco on Congress is hardly going to do. Need i remind you that Rahm Emmanuel is your pet, not Congress'.

the GOP and Blue Dogs have been by far the greatest undermining element of this whole process. obama could've done a lot more to support real reform, but your post just looks uniformed.

[Beckwin]

Pipe dream.


This is Obama's and the Democrats Waterloo. Jim DeMint was right. Quite frankly if Harry reid and Obama don't want to call the GOP bluff of a filibuster and only the fucking threat of one stops any sort of significant reform they don't deserve to be in power.

Fuck them

it seems like there is intent to call the filibuster bluff. "up-or-down" and references to the bush tax cuts and welfare reform pretty clearly indicate that the president is willing to go with reconciliation now.

[Kuya]

Your defense of Obama is growing stale, he pretended to support a public option while simultaniously working to undermine it.

Fuck Obama

[Rhinox]

the GOP and Blue Dogs have been by far the greatest undermining element of this whole process. obama could've done a lot more to support real reform, but your post just looks uniformed.

Kuya is right they fucked it up from the beginning. They started the 'debate' with the public option. It should have started with single payer and the compromise could've been the Public option. But Obama is so worried about his image as a "uniter" that he low balled the american people from the start.

[Rhinox]

it seems like there is intent to call the filibuster bluff. "up-or-down" and references to the bush tax cuts and welfare reform pretty clearly indicate that the president is willing to go with reconciliation now.

This proposal is right of center. Nixon proposed a better health care plan then what Obama is trying to do here with this. Tax credit/incentive is similar to what the GOP wanted to do. This bill is placating the GOP and the Democrats are so scared shitless by the tea baggers that they would vote against their conscience to get a bill past to score points in the coming election.

[Beckwin]

I'm not claiming to be 100% elated with whatever may get passed, but some progress is better than none. subsidizing healthcare for the poor is a start.

[Acturus]

I'm interested in the second point most. Is he referring to a public option (aka, what Congressmen have) or an exchange equivalent (non-profit, same coverage, same prices)?

Congress has a "lot" of options because Federal employees as a whole are all part of the same 8.5 million person risk pool. Private insurance practically drops to its knees when the dong of federal coverage is wagged their way.

The only way that "everyone" will get the same choices as Congress from private insurance is if certain things are re-structured to allow for greater numbers within a risk pool. Sale across state lines, greater focus on individual coverage instead of employer-specific pools, etc. etc.

It's not as simple as saying "Congress gets X benefits for Y cost, so Joe Schmo gets X benefits for Y cost", and I'm sick and tired of pretty fucking important facts being understated by the administration.

*edit* this isn't a jab at you, Beckwin, just a general gripe about the copypasta you put up top.

[Kuya]

Getting a single potatoe chip when i'm hungry is better than getting nothing, but somehow i'm still hungry and pretty unsatisfied by the whole ordeal.

[willriker]

I'm not claiming to be 100% elated with whatever may get passed, but some progress is better than none. subsidizing healthcare for the poor is a start.

qft, so is not denying them coverage for preexisting conditions.

[Kuya]

I think i'll wait until they pass it before i get optimistic about it. The track record of the Democrats and Obama has shown that they are far more likely to fuck it up, so i'm expecting that.

[Beckwin]

Congress has a "lot" of options because Federal employees as a whole are all part of the same 8.5 million person risk pool. Private insurance practically drops to its knees when the dong of federal coverage is wagged their way.

The only way that "everyone" will get the same choices as Congress from private insurance is if certain things are re-structured to allow for greater numbers within a risk pool. Sale across state lines, greater focus on individual coverage instead of employer-specific pools, etc. etc.

It's not as simple as saying "Congress gets X benefits for Y cost, so Joe Schmo gets X benefits for Y cost", and I'm sick and tired of pretty fucking important facts being understated by the administration.

*edit* this isn't a jab at you, Beckwin, just a general gripe about the copypasta you put up top.

it'd be great if people could just buy into that 8.5m pool....

Anyhow, I'm not exactly sure what you're saying... if Schmo gets the same X benefit at Y cost, how is that bad? I understand the arguments against interstate insurance (companies flock to low regulation states and whatnot), but if the benefits are there then they're there.

[Rhinox]

I'm not claiming to be 100% elated with whatever may get passed, but some progress is better than none. subsidizing healthcare for the poor is a start.

it's a start? No it really isn't we regressed in this debate and if this gets passed it probably won't ever get revisited at least in the foreseeable future because of the political firestorm this issue brings up.

Check out Nixon's plan and compare it to Obama's plan. Very little has changed in terms of language.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stor...-proposal.aspx

And look at Ted Kennedy's response which still rings true today.


http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8331737

Granted Teddy is quoted as saying he regretting not compromising with Nixon but look how long its took for since significant change to be proposed since the early Clinton era.

bottom line is any type of subsidy with a mandate just guarantees the Insurance companies profit to skyrocket and deepens the claws on the neck of the American people interest when more change is needed in the future. The only difference is it would be the taxpayers money that would pay the lobbyists not their profits.

[Rhinox]

qft, so is not denying them coverage for preexisting conditions.

they can piggy back that amendment to ANY bill they pass if they seriously wanted to end that retarded practice.

[Cephius]

This is really a no-win situation for Obama any way you look at it.

If he abandons healthcare reform and focuses on jobs, he's gonna get called out for not living up to a campaign promise.

If he forces a bill through Congress without GOP support he's going to get called out for not living up to his promise of bi-partisan reform.

If he tries to get GOP support, he's either never going to get it because it's nigh impossible to balance the wishes of the GOP while keeping his own party happy.

Honestly I think he should just listen to his own party and just push it through. The GOP will always vote against it no matter what. Some reform is better than none. Still, it's gonna be a shitstorm no matter what happens.

[Demosthenes11]

obama shouldn't have a win in this lol. he fucked up, the democrats fucked up. it's a godamned embarrassment

[willriker]

they can piggy back that amendment to ANY bill they pass if they seriously wanted to end that retarded practice.

being able to afford the financial repurcusions of this portion of the bill, in addition to afford the repurcusions of not being able to jack up insurance premiums, drop people...

...is what this whole debate is about....

In order for that crap to stop you need to be able to pay for the consequences of stopping the insurance providers from excercising such options. That gave birth to this gigantic bill to control the additional costs of endign these practices.

>.> but your right i guess we can just tack on 2,000 pages to some other bill.

[Rhinox]

This is really a no-win situation for Obama any way you look at it.

If he abandons healthcare reform and focuses on jobs, he's gonna get called out for not living up to a campaign promise.

If he forces a bill through Congress without GOP support he's going to get called out for not living up to his promise of bi-partisan reform.

If he tries to get GOP support, he's either never going to get it because it's nigh impossible to balance the wishes of the GOP while keeping his own party happy.

Honestly I think he should just listen to his own party and just push it through. The GOP will always vote against it no matter what. Some reform is better than none. Still, it's gonna be a shitstorm no matter what happens.

Exactly. But the guys ego is so fucking huge he actually believes he can win the Republicans over.

Reconciliation without the public option is a huge lose to the American people and the Democratic party.