deaggro/aggro-reset and some party dynamics testing

[Amok]

What I'm about to post here are the results of a few hours work I did about a week ago. I decided to answer some questions I've had for a long time about losing aggro. In doing so I also expanded the testing to parties. There are several things I didn't think of testing while I was doing it and some things I simply forgot to try. I've been meaning to complete the testing to present a better total picture, but I haven't had the opportunity. So, I'm kind of sad that I'm giving you this incomplete product, but I'm positive some of this information will be new to many of you.

First tests on worms
Attacking a worm then standing near will obviously not result in deaggro. However, stand outside its casting range it will deaggro in about 25 seconds. Standing outside of melee range but inside casting range will cause "random" results. It will deaggro if 25 seconds have passed since its last spell. This can be after 1 or 2 spells, or even 0 spells if you're lucky. The deaggro on two occasions happened DURING casting of the next spell, which was not completed. Cast silence on a worm and stand outside melee range and it will deaggro in a straight 25 seconds. Cast sleep on it and the same thing will happen. That last part is very special about worms. As is the following.

Worm deaggro testing while slept
As mentioned just now, sleeping a worm and standing out of its sound detection range will cause it to deaggro in 25 seconds. Sleeping it then casting sneak on yourself while standing right next to it will cause it to deaggro ONLY IF YOU'RE STANDING BEHIND IT, or just outside its field of vision. This was a huge surprise to myself. Invisible and deoderize do not make a difference here, you MUST stand outside its field of vision for it to deaggro while you're standing close to it.

Rabbits (don't chase by scent)
Rabbits and all other mobs that don't chase won't deaggro while slept or bound. The 25 second timer only starts counting down (conjecture) once the mob is free to move. Gravity doesn't affect the timer. The 25 seconds start when the mob is not able to 'detect' you. Meaning different ranges depending on whether or not it's a sound or sight mob or has extraordinary detection range. The 25 second "deaggro timer" doesn't get reset if YOU cast something on the mob unlike when the mob casts something on you (see worms), if you time any spell like poison right before the timer is up it will land and the mob will deaggro right after.

Sheep (chase by scent)
Sheep won't stop chasing you as they chase by scent. However, using deoderize on yourself will make it behave like a non-chasing mob and it will deaggro 25 seconds after it can no longer smell/detect you. As for water, Sheep's ability to detect you by smell is erased when it's standing in water. If at the moment it stands in water you can still be seen (sheep detect by sight as well as smell) it will NOT deaggro. If you are far enough away or have invisible on yourself it WILL deaggro the instant it steps into water. Water actually seems to TRIGGER deaggro in the sense that it acts seperate of the 25 second timer I've seen before. The following was seen while leveling BST and not during my formal testing: A failed charm on a leech in Passhow Marshlands was followed by an immediate deaggro as the leech's first hop/step was into a shallow puddle of water while I was still outside its sound detection range.

Aggro in Party
This (to me at least) is my most surprising find as I don't believe I've ever seen anyone state this before, only anecdotal evidence from Darters in DA and bad exp pt wipes. Attacking/pulling a mob will cause everyone in the party that is within detection range (sight and sound) to be put on the mob's enmity/hate list. Tested on worms and lizards as well as sheep. The latter is what prooves it's not a simple range thing but a straight sight detection thing. If you attack a sheep while a pt member is behind it, logging out will cause it to go passive. If the pt member is in plain view of the sheep it will be its next target after you log out. This explains why Darters in DA don't go passive after the person that attacked them dies, the attacked flies will still have at the very least the attacker's pt members that were in sound range on their list. Whether this extends to alliance members: I don't know.

Order of enmity list
Imagine the enmity list as an actual list of names in a specific order. My question was based on a hunch I had: what defines the order of the list? My hunch told me the order was the leader order: the order in which the leader flag is handed down in case of connection loss, which in turn is the order in which party members were invited. The tests I did with a 3 party member confirm my hunch. With different leader orders, the current party leader would pull a lizard with party aggro (all party members within sound detect range) and log out, the next target was always the next party leader. An interesting thing about this is that I expected logging out to not erase someone from the enmity list as was suggested by the results of Kaeko's enmity testing, but it did. When returning to the party after logging out and after the final target logged out the lizard went passive, meaning nobody else was on the list. At the time I did not think of testing what would happen if anyone other than the pt leader pulled and if the next target after them logging out was the leader or the next person after them in the leader order. If anyone wants to test this, pls do.

Links and /heal aggro
Using sheep I tested wether a linking mob uses the same detect mechanism to generate its initial enmity list or if it perhaps copies the original mob's list. As you would expect, the linking mob only copies the original mob's target and behaves as though it was a regular mob aggro, meaning its enmity list is in fact empty and it only has a target, not a list. Curing its target won't generate hate on the linking mob. Using quadav I tested how /heal works. Apparently it's like attacking/pulling a mob (as opposed to regular aggro) in that it puts you on the hate list, because curing the person that /heal'ed causes the quadav to come after you.

Thanks to anyone who reads through this wall of text.

[spooky]

Intesting. Thanks for taking the time to compile this.
I've always thought it would be nice if there was a few easier ways of de-agroing mobs. Espeshly for lower levels.

[Max™]

I remember before the depop nerf, I leveled Blm using Streams to my advantage against Orcs.

Nuke the crap out of an orc, cross a stream/go behind a tree and it stops and stands in the water, nuke the crap out of it again and it dies. Same with sheep. Got me from like 5-10 pretty well.

[Oulanbator]

An interesting thing about this is that I expected logging out to not erase someone from the enmity list as was suggested by the results of Kaeko's enmity testing, but it did.

Have you done extensive tests about this ?
Like casting dispel 20 times to build a good amount of enmity before logging out.

[Rena]

Aggro in Party
This (to me at least) is my most surprising find as I don't believe I've ever seen anyone state this before, only anecdotal evidence from Darters in DA and bad exp pt wipes. Attacking/pulling a mob will cause everyone in the party that is within detection range (sight and sound) to be put on the mob's enmity/hate list. Tested on worms and lizards as well as sheep. The latter is what prooves it's not a simple range thing but a straight sight detection thing. If you attack a sheep while a pt member is behind it, logging out will cause it to go passive. If the pt member is in plain view of the sheep it will be its next target after you log out. This explains why Darters in DA don't go passive after the person that attacked them dies, the attacked flies will still have at the very least the attacker's pt members that were in sound range on their list. Whether this extends to alliance members: I don't know.

This is mob specific, some mobs automatically have hate on all party members in the zone when somebody in the party does something to it (aggroing doesn't cause this to happen, I believe), but a lot do not.

[Max™]

An interesting thing about this is that I expected logging out to not erase someone from the enmity list as was suggested by the results of Kaeko's enmity testing, but it did.

Have you done extensive tests about this ?
Like casting dispel 20 times to build a good amount of enmity before logging out.

I think he was saying that if you're in the mobs aggro range, someone else gets aggro, and you log out, you can lose that enmity.

This suggests that not only does the mob enmity memory last long enough for you to log out > in and still be on the hate list, but that it decreases some while you log, so the slight enmity you get from being near a party member with hate can be cleared by logging.

[Oulanbator]

Well, I think he mentionned leader pulling a mob.
Pulling means 1st action, and gives a significant amount of hate ( and 200 CE that aren't supposed to decay).

If what the OP says is true, it means there might still be a way to partially loose hate by logging out, and it would be interesting to know how much.

If you simply aggro a mob ( walk near it), I don't think there is any hate system started.
Not sure about this last thing, might depends of mobs and zones.

[Tdizzle]

Have some fun and do tests on puddings. They're the most annoying mob if you have any skill soloing. If you use pathing to your advantage or they just forget to use the little AI they have been programmed with, they'll depop. It's to the point where I have to let them get a swipe at me or land a couple spells or they'll depop on me while I'm casting my final spell to kill them.

It seems like after 15 or so seconds of not landing anything on you makes them depop. It makes no difference if you landed spells on them in the time period either. Many times I've casted a spell followed immediately by another and had them depop before that last spell would land. So annoying....

[Shassira]

Well, I think he mentionned leader pulling a mob.
Pulling means 1st action, and gives a significant amount of hate ( and 200 CE that aren't supposed to decay).

If what the OP says is true, it means there might still be a way to partially loose hate by logging out, and it would be interesting to know how much.

If you simply aggro a mob ( walk near it), I don't think there is any hate system started.
Not sure about this last thing, might depends of mobs and zones.

When you take aggro from a monster by walking into their aggro range (sight/sound/magic/hp/number of cookies in inventory) you are not in their hate list. Instead you are, and this is the best way i can describe it, just their current target. If you imagine a monster having a hate list that shuffles around and a pointer to whoever is their current target, when aggroing happens only the pointer is updated with your character. The list remains empty. This means, and it can be easily tested, that if someone else does actualy comit any aggresive action to the monster, they will be added to the list but you will still be out, effectively ridding you out of any harm in the event that such person would lose hate (by dying, zoning or whatever case). This is the same reason why you can spam magic on the person that has aggro/link monsters following him without ever entering the list of any monster. Basicly, you enter the list if you perform an action on the monster or an action on someone that's already on the list (or by resting when a monster is following someone, but this is one of those weird cases that's a bit harder to explain).

This is exactly what you exploit to delink monsters that may have aggroed a party member or to safe your own butt if you got aggro while fighting. Basicly, perform an AoE action with your pet where your initial target is something else (for example, the monster you are fighting). The AoE will hit the aggroing monster, your pet will die eventualy and the monster will be in passive mode again.

This is the same explanation given above for linking mobs, but it applies to aggroed monsters too, at least in general cases. There should be exceptions in many BCs where the monster might simply add everyone in the area to the list, but i assume these are point cases where each monster has a special behavior.

[Wizerd]

Aggro in Party
This (to me at least) is my most surprising find as I don't believe I've ever seen anyone state this before, only anecdotal evidence from Darters in DA and bad exp pt wipes. Attacking/pulling a mob will cause everyone in the party that is within detection range (sight and sound) to be put on the mob's enmity/hate list. Tested on worms and lizards as well as sheep. The latter is what prooves it's not a simple range thing but a straight sight detection thing. If you attack a sheep while a pt member is behind it, logging out will cause it to go passive. If the pt member is in plain view of the sheep it will be its next target after you log out. This explains why Darters in DA don't go passive after the person that attacked them dies, the attacked flies will still have at the very least the attacker's pt members that were in sound range on their list. Whether this extends to alliance members: I don't know.

This is mob specific, some mobs automatically have hate on all party members in the zone when somebody in the party does something to it (aggroing doesn't cause this to happen, I believe), but a lot do not.

This has always bugged me.

People constantly say that Fly mobs have party/alliance hate no matter where they are in the zone, and I've always refused to believe it. So I just went out to test it:

Had myself on NIN/WAR at 42.5 range from a fly, and used my wife's character to Stoneskin -> Dia the fly > logout. Lo and behold, the fly lost all aggro and went back to flying around.

I tried again at 8.8 range, and still no aggro.

5.0 range, no aggro.

Finally, I tried at 1.0 range, WITH it looking at me, and it still lost aggro.

Unfortunately, I have to call that test inconclusive due to the flies being low level and some kind of party link thing may be a high level trait.

I tried on Valkurm lizards too, but no aggro again.

I'm gonna go try in Boyahda, leaving my wife's character at the zone and then using Mijin Gakure on one of the deeper flies. I'm curious as to whether logging out and dying are counted differently in this scenario.

[Shassira]

Aggro in Party
This (to me at least) is my most surprising find as I don't believe I've ever seen anyone state this before, only anecdotal evidence from Darters in DA and bad exp pt wipes. Attacking/pulling a mob will cause everyone in the party that is within detection range (sight and sound) to be put on the mob's enmity/hate list. Tested on worms and lizards as well as sheep. The latter is what prooves it's not a simple range thing but a straight sight detection thing. If you attack a sheep while a pt member is behind it, logging out will cause it to go passive. If the pt member is in plain view of the sheep it will be its next target after you log out. This explains why Darters in DA don't go passive after the person that attacked them dies, the attacked flies will still have at the very least the attacker's pt members that were in sound range on their list. Whether this extends to alliance members: I don't know.

This is mob specific, some mobs automatically have hate on all party members in the zone when somebody in the party does something to it (aggroing doesn't cause this to happen, I believe), but a lot do not.

This has always bugged me.

People constantly say that Fly mobs have party/alliance hate no matter where they are in the zone, and I've always refused to believe it. So I just went out to test it:

Had myself on NIN/WAR at 42.5 range from a fly, and used my wife's character to Stoneskin -> Dia the fly > logout. Lo and behold, the fly lost all aggro and went back to flying around.

I tried again at 8.8 range, and still no aggro.

5.0 range, no aggro.

Finally, I tried at 1.0 range, WITH it looking at me, and it still lost aggro.

{b}Unfortunately, I have to call that test inconclusive due to the flies being low level and some kind of party link thing may be a high level trait.{/b}

I tried on Valkurm lizards too, but no aggro again.

I'm gonna go try in Boyahda, leaving my wife's character at the zone and then using Mijin Gakure on one of the deeper flies. I'm curious as to whether logging out and dying are counted differently in this scenario.

Or instead of a high level trait, you need to be on the level range where you'd normaly get aggro from a pissed mob. (As in not check TW).

Problem is that to test these kind of things you'd need some kind of escape route or you'll enventualy end up dead >>;

[Wizerd]

Aggro in Party
This (to me at least) is my most surprising find as I don't believe I've ever seen anyone state this before, only anecdotal evidence from Darters in DA and bad exp pt wipes. Attacking/pulling a mob will cause everyone in the party that is within detection range (sight and sound) to be put on the mob's enmity/hate list. Tested on worms and lizards as well as sheep. The latter is what prooves it's not a simple range thing but a straight sight detection thing. If you attack a sheep while a pt member is behind it, logging out will cause it to go passive. If the pt member is in plain view of the sheep it will be its next target after you log out. This explains why Darters in DA don't go passive after the person that attacked them dies, the attacked flies will still have at the very least the attacker's pt members that were in sound range on their list. Whether this extends to alliance members: I don't know.

This is mob specific, some mobs automatically have hate on all party members in the zone when somebody in the party does something to it (aggroing doesn't cause this to happen, I believe), but a lot do not.

This has always bugged me.

People constantly say that Fly mobs have party/alliance hate no matter where they are in the zone, and I've always refused to believe it. So I just went out to test it:

Had myself on NIN/WAR at 42.5 range from a fly, and used my wife's character to Stoneskin -> Dia the fly > logout. Lo and behold, the fly lost all aggro and went back to flying around.

I tried again at 8.8 range, and still no aggro.

5.0 range, no aggro.

Finally, I tried at 1.0 range, WITH it looking at me, and it still lost aggro.

{b}Unfortunately, I have to call that test inconclusive due to the flies being low level and some kind of party link thing may be a high level trait.{/b}

I tried on Valkurm lizards too, but no aggro again.

I'm gonna go try in Boyahda, leaving my wife's character at the zone and then using Mijin Gakure on one of the deeper flies. I'm curious as to whether logging out and dying are counted differently in this scenario.

Or instead of a high level trait, you need to be on the level range where you'd normaly get aggro from a pissed mob. (As in not check TW).

Problem is that to test these kind of things you'd need some kind of escape route or you'll enventualy end up dead >>;

Like a zone behind? Right now I'm in Boyahda on NIN, wife's char @ zone, and heading to Darters. Both of us are in the would-be level range to get aggro if they were to be aggro mobs. I've always wanted to test this, just never got around to it. If the fly stops after I Mijin, then people are gonna need to change their stories about Darters. Either that or I'll hear "it's only for Dragon's Aery".

We'll see!

Edit: As expected, no aggro after Mijin Gakure. So this so-called Darter "alliance link" simply follows the rules that the OP stated about party members being in aggro range when the monster becomes aggro to them for a split second before becoming passive. It probably also works the same on every monster, just that Darters are usually found close together and often close to people, so it's assumed that they have some kind of auto-link on Alliance. Which is wrong.

[Amok]

@Oulanbator
The only testing I've done was the one regarding party aggro. The three characters logged out in turn starting with the puller and at the end nobody had hate meaning they weren't on the hate list. I can't make a claim about anything other than what I saw happen. All tests involved performing an action on the mob other than the /heal aggro one.

Aggro in Party
This (to me at least) is my most surprising find as I don't believe I've ever seen anyone state this before, only anecdotal evidence from Darters in DA and bad exp pt wipes. Attacking/pulling a mob will cause everyone in the party that is within detection range (sight and sound) to be put on the mob's enmity/hate list. Tested on worms and lizards as well as sheep. The latter is what prooves it's not a simple range thing but a straight sight detection thing. If you attack a sheep while a pt member is behind it, logging out will cause it to go passive. If the pt member is in plain view of the sheep it will be its next target after you log out. This explains why Darters in DA don't go passive after the person that attacked them dies, the attacked flies will still have at the very least the attacker's pt members that were in sound range on their list. Whether this extends to alliance members: I don't know.

This is mob specific, some mobs automatically have hate on all party members in the zone when somebody in the party does something to it (aggroing doesn't cause this to happen, I believe), but a lot do not.

I have tested the party aggro thing on sheep lizards and a sappling and so I can't say if what you say is true, just what I've seen.

It seems like after 15 or so seconds of not landing anything on you makes them depop. It makes no difference if you landed spells on them in the time period either. Many times I've casted a spell followed immediately by another and had them depop before that last spell would land. So annoying....

This is exactly what I've seen. If the mob has been unable to land an attack on you for a certain amount of time and you are outside its detection range it will deaggro no matter how recent your last action on IT was.

People constantly say that Fly mobs have party/alliance hate no matter where they are in the zone, and I've always refused to believe it. So I just went out to test it:

Had myself on NIN/WAR at 42.5 range from a fly, and used my wife's character to Stoneskin -> Dia the fly > logout. Lo and behold, the fly lost all aggro and went back to flying around.

I tried again at 8.8 range, and still no aggro.

5.0 range, no aggro.

Finally, I tried at 1.0 range, WITH it looking at me, and it still lost aggro.

Unfortunately, I have to call that test inconclusive due to the flies being low level and some kind of party link thing may be a high level trait.

I tried on Valkurm lizards too, but no aggro again.

I'm gonna go try in Boyahda, leaving my wife's character at the zone and then using Mijin Gakure on one of the deeper flies. I'm curious as to whether logging out and dying are counted differently in this scenario.

I have no way to explain that ><. I'll have to repeat the test on your mobs, but I'll have to find people to put in party. That's gonna be the hardest bit. Nobody likes helping with boring tests.

[Amok]

Edit: As expected, no aggro after Mijin Gakure. So this so-called Darter "alliance link" simply follows the rules that the OP stated about party members being in aggro range when the monster becomes aggro to them for a split second before becoming passive. It probably also works the same on every monster, just that Darters are usually found close together and often close to people, so it's assumed that they have some kind of auto-link on Alliance. Which is wrong.

I agree with everyhting, but there must be something I'm missing, didn't your test on flies in dunes contradict that?

[Wizerd]

I have no way to explain that ><. I'll have to repeat the test on your mobs, but I'll have to find people to put in party. That's gonna be the hardest bit. Nobody likes helping with boring tests.

To be honest, I think it's really quite simple. When you were testing, did you have your members resting at any point? In the past, I've never had any problems with enmity being transferred to someone else who wasn't resting and was off the mob's list of people who took action on it or someone on that list, when I were to die or otherwise not be in commission in the zone.

There are times when I would Mijin Gakure and a pack of lizards close by the one I mijin'd would rape a party member, but it was always a mage and I can guarantee they were resting.

I've never believed that any monster would aggro a party member if there was no reason for it to do so, under any circumstance; not even Darters. And I still don't.

However, I will try testing your logout thing on some mobs that aggro to lv75s, later on, possibly when I go back to work (just leaving work now).

I agree with everyhting, but there must be something I'm missing, didn't your test on flies in dunes contradict that?

It did, but I just figured you tested on monsters that didn't check Too Weak? If not, then yeah, my tests contradict it and what I just said above would be true so far.

[Amok]

To be honest, I think it's really quite simple. When you were testing, did you have your members resting at any point?

No, I explicitly told him (was controlling both other characters) to not do anything. All party members were right on top of the lizard (Konschat Highlands) when I cast silence on it. When I logged someone else became the target. So, I still don't see what the reason for the discrepancy is. The test was done several times with different ppl pulling and it had the same result each time.

EDIT:
Well I just had to pay a random person 5k to help me out cus I wanted so much to have evidence of what I was talking about. http://www.youshare.com/hosting.php?fil ... 0aggro.avi
Notice how I don't rest or do anything except be in sound aggro range when the pugil is pulled. Upon zoning the pugil starts attacking me. I have no idea if this is indeed mob speciific and that the mobs you tested on are different, but this is what I saw in Konschat Highlands as well.

Streaming:
http://www.youshare.com/view.php?file=party%20aggro.avi

[Wizerd]

To be honest, I think it's really quite simple. When you were testing, did you have your members resting at any point?

No, I explicitly told him (was controlling both other characters) to not do anything. All party members were right on top of the lizard (Konschat Highlands) when I cast silence on it. When I logged someone else became the target. So, I still don't see what the reason for the discrepancy is. The test was done several times with different ppl pulling and it had the same result each time.

EDIT:
Well I just had to pay a random person 5k to help me out cus I wanted so much to have evidence of what I was talking about. http://www.youshare.com/hosting.php?fil ... 0aggro.avi
Notice how I don't rest or do anything except be in sound aggro range when the pugil is pulled. Upon zoning the pugil starts attacking me. I have no idea if this is indeed mob speciific and that the mobs you tested on are different, but this is what I saw in Konschat Highlands as well.

Streaming:
http://www.youshare.com/view.php?file=party%20aggro.avi

Wish I could tell you what the problem was. The mobs I tested on were just Damselflies and Hill Lizards (or whichever) in Valkurm Dunes. I logged out rather than zoned, and had the mob looking at me directly in front of it when I was the only one to remain and the other character had logged out. My character (the one which remained in the zone) was party leader every time, and I just invited the other character back before redoing any testing each time.

If I wasn't about to go to bed, I'd do more testing.

[Rena]

Aggro in Party
This (to me at least) is my most surprising find as I don't believe I've ever seen anyone state this before, only anecdotal evidence from Darters in DA and bad exp pt wipes. Attacking/pulling a mob will cause everyone in the party that is within detection range (sight and sound) to be put on the mob's enmity/hate list. Tested on worms and lizards as well as sheep. The latter is what prooves it's not a simple range thing but a straight sight detection thing. If you attack a sheep while a pt member is behind it, logging out will cause it to go passive. If the pt member is in plain view of the sheep it will be its next target after you log out. This explains why Darters in DA don't go passive after the person that attacked them dies, the attacked flies will still have at the very least the attacker's pt members that were in sound range on their list. Whether this extends to alliance members: I don't know.

This is mob specific, some mobs automatically have hate on all party members in the zone when somebody in the party does something to it (aggroing doesn't cause this to happen, I believe), but a lot do not.

This has always bugged me.

People constantly say that Fly mobs have party/alliance hate no matter where they are in the zone, and I've always refused to believe it. So I just went out to test it:

Had myself on NIN/WAR at 42.5 range from a fly, and used my wife's character to Stoneskin -> Dia the fly > logout. Lo and behold, the fly lost all aggro and went back to flying around.

I tried again at 8.8 range, and still no aggro.

5.0 range, no aggro.

Finally, I tried at 1.0 range, WITH it looking at me, and it still lost aggro.

{b}Unfortunately, I have to call that test inconclusive due to the flies being low level and some kind of party link thing may be a high level trait.{/b}

I tried on Valkurm lizards too, but no aggro again.

I'm gonna go try in Boyahda, leaving my wife's character at the zone and then using Mijin Gakure on one of the deeper flies. I'm curious as to whether logging out and dying are counted differently in this scenario.

Or instead of a high level trait, you need to be on the level range where you'd normaly get aggro from a pissed mob. (As in not check TW).

Problem is that to test these kind of things you'd need some kind of escape route or you'll enventualy end up dead >>;

Like a zone behind? :P Right now I'm in Boyahda on NIN, wife's char @ zone, and heading to Darters. Both of us are in the would-be level range to get aggro if they were to be aggro mobs. I've always wanted to test this, just never got around to it. If the fly stops after I Mijin, then people are gonna need to change their stories about Darters. Either that or I'll hear "it's only for Dragon's Aery".

We'll see!

Edit: As expected, no aggro after Mijin Gakure. So this so-called Darter "alliance link" simply follows the rules that the OP stated about party members being in aggro range when the monster becomes aggro to them for a split second before becoming passive. It probably also works the same on every monster, just that Darters are usually found close together and often close to people, so it's assumed that they have some kind of auto-link on Alliance. Which is wrong.

It's different for different mobs, even if they are the same kind (edit: that is, if damselflies work one way, whereas darters work another way). Also, mijin won't work if you don't do something else to it first, I'm pretty sure - wivres have party hate and I have seen people use mijin after a party without the rest of the party getting aggro.

[Amok]

It's different for different mobs, even if they are the same kind (edit: that is, if damselflies work one way, whereas darters work another way).

Sounds like the default "shit's situational" BG answer I've seen so often :D but seriosuly, I don't think you can just state that as being true for normal mobs (mobs not in battlefields or in party). I haven't tested anything on Darters so I'll refrain from saying with any kind of certainty how they behave.

[Raineer]

The problem with darters is that I *know* I have seen more than one occasion where someone casted on them, then dropped party (but definitely after the darter claim) and hate was not shared after the person's death. However, I think we have all seen that scenario also result in shared hate.

Possibly there has to be someone resting, but I don't even know about that. Maybe we need to expand the test, what other than lizards (CN lawl) and darters have the suspicous type of shared hate?