Confirmation with Vista OS + ATI card + Laptop + FFXI = all good to go?

[The Stig]

tl;dr version:

Just need a quick confirmation here ...

From what I read, there are no lag/vista related issues with ATI Cards, i.e. "ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650" (that I am currently looking at) on FFXI?

Yay or nay. Search brings back weak confirmation :/

Explaination

I'm looking to buy a new laptop for my family to use (they don't like desktops, but like the mobility of a laptop in a home). It's going to be a fairly beefy one but I will configure it and lock it down so viruses and shit won't destroy it. However, since it's going to be a fairly big/powerful laptop for them to use, I decided that if I buy one that would also allow me to play FFXI (saves me bringing my shit home too) then it would be convienient, especially for the odd weekend when I visit home.

There's the Nvidia + Vista + FFXI = issues thing, I know I've been reading some people don't have issues, but if I aim to buy a laptop with an ATI card in it, am I 99% going to run FFXI with no frame/FPS issues that plague a lot of people with Nvidia cards on Vista?

Or, does someone have a concrete solution (aside from upgrading to XP from Vista) for fixing FPS issues on Nvidia cards on Vista...?

[shiarua]

You will have framerate issues on Vista no matter what. Its not a matter of ATI vs nVidia anymore.

nVidias latest drivers actually improve performance in FFXI by a lot. I experience very minor slowdowns (occasionally) on my desktop computer (Q6600 @3.6GHz, 4GB RAM, 8800GTX).

The biggest problem, and this is where the Vista problem lies, is that FFXI framerates are impacted directly by your CPU. The fact that the game is not multi-threaded and runs in DX8.1 makes the game take a huge hit under Vista, which only supports DX9 and DX10 natively. This means that it only emulates DX8.1.

Honestly, I wouldnt worry about ATI vs nVidia at this point, but I definitely dont recommend getting integrated graphics. Get a dedicated video controller with dedicated vRAM, something that would be capable of playing CoD4 or UT3 at decent framerates. Also get a laptop with a fast CPU (Frequency, L2 cache, FSB, # of Cores - all things to consider - although the number of cores wont make any difference for FFXI but will help with multitasking).

I personally run FFXI on my Gateway FX and it runs decently. Still lags in some places, but for normal activities its just fine. Specs are E5550 @1.83GHz, 4GB RAM, 8800M GTS (512MB dedicated vRAM), 2x320GB HDD RAID 0, 17" 1440x900 WS monitor

[Kohan]

Honestly, I wouldnt worry about ATI vs nVidia at this point, but I definitely dont recommend getting integrated graphics. Get a dedicated video controller with dedicated vRAM, something that would be capable of playing CoD4 or UT3 at decent framerates. Also get a laptop with a fast CPU (Frequency, L2 cache, FSB, # of Cores - all things to consider - although the number of cores wont make any difference for FFXI but will help with multitasking).

The number of cores does make a difference in FFXI indirectly, but I think you may have already been implying this with the "multitasking" note. Especially if you use a 64-bit OS, various other applications--including those emulated--will benefit from multiple processors and in turn will yield more power to FFXI.

Also, don't worry too much about getting a quad core, unless you plan on using this laptop for a long, long time. It's never a bad idea to get the best of the best, but an extremely limited amount of applications use quad core processors properly. In fact, some even see decreased performance. No matter what anyone tells you, the proof is in the pudding, and current computing does not utilize that potential properly.

[The Stig]

I'm aware of the core arguement, but I know this machine won't be that beefy, but enough. Typically it'll be the usual dual core with like 2gb of ram, you know, them all around multimedia laptops.

Otherwise, yeh I'll ignore the ATI Card/Nvidia thing then. Thanks for the info.

[Boyiee]

I run vista 64bit on my desktop with an ati board and amd card, best purchases i've ever made computer wise.

You should be fine. If it runs shitty, send it back lol.

[Shuemue]

[(aside from upgrading to XP from Vista)

You know this is the correct answer already, why fight it?

[alt]

You will have framerate issues on Vista no matter what. Its not a matter of ATI vs nVidia anymore.

False. I know many people who play FFXI on Vista and have no frame rate issues, on both types of cards, Nvidia and ATI. Including myself on my laptop.

With that being said, it is true that you are more likely to potentially have frame rate issues on a Vista machine, but it's not a "no matter what" type of situation.

My laptop runs Vista 32bit, and uses a Nvidia 8600GT M. Although it isnt as smooth as my desktop it is certainly playable by any means. The most recent modded drivers helped a ton in my case.

To be safe I would go with an ATI card, since they seem to have the fewest potential issues with Vista. Although in terms of Vista, as far as I can tell, it now seems to vary from computer to computer. Two people may be running the exact same type of Vista and graphics card, and one will have problems, while the other wont.

Like others said, best bet is to use XP, so FFXI runs fine no matter the card. But if you are going to use Vista, ATI cards have the fewest issues.

[shiarua]

The number of cores does make a difference in FFXI indirectly, but I think you may have already been implying this with the "multitasking" note. Especially if you use a 64-bit OS, various other applications--including those emulated--will benefit from multiple processors and in turn will yield more power to FFXI.

FFXI still hits a hard limit based on CPU Speed (Frequency x Multi). IE if you have a 2.4GHz, 2 core cpu, the max cpu usage that FFXI will use is 50% (2.4Ghz) even if it is being evenly distributed between both cores. Again, this is a threading issue unfortunately and the problem wont go away until SE adds multicore support to the game and/or updates the graphics engine to use DX9/DX10 (it doesnt use DX9 right now, they just bs'd us with that shit to shut us up)

Anywho, @shuemue -> No dude, just no. I don't know if you are one of those "Vista haters" but get off your fucking high horse and accept the fact that Vista is a superior operating system. You forget that Vista is still maturing. XP has been out far longer than Vista, but you forget that when XP came out, it sucked ass too.

@alt
Not false. People who say they have no framerate issues are either a)lying or b)playing on settings that have less of a performance impact on their system, thus making FFXI perform better and not lag (as much). I dont know what settings you have FFXI at, but if tried to max the game out, you would most likely run into problems.

It also has a lot to do with anti-malware software actually too. I know a lot of av/as programs just do not play well with FFXI, even after you disable protection and/or remove FFXI from being monitored.

[Fallso]

Anywho, @shuemue -> No dude, just no. I don't know if you are one of those "Vista haters" but get off your fucking high horse and accept the fact that Vista is a superior operating system. You forget that Vista is still maturing. XP has been out far longer than Vista, but you forget that when XP came out, it sucked ass too.

So you're admitting XP is better than Vista anyway.

Look, I had vista. I played FFXI on it. It's bollocks.

I just formatted my HDD and lost 500GB+ of shit to get rid of it, it was slow to boot up, slow to start up once logged in and generally a resource hog. Everything runs so much quicker in XP it's unbelievable, I boot up in 10 seconds instead of 60, once logged in I don't have to wait another 5 for vista to wake up before I can even do anything and I get higher FPS in every game.

[The Stig]

You know this is the correct answer already, why fight it?

Yeh true, but you know, "the one" might be out there somewhere ... , I wanted to triple check ...

shiarua: I'm not a "fan" of anything, I just want stuff to work. But yeh, no need to start arguing XP>Vista or vice versa, chill... ^^, although I totally see where you're coming from and your feelings. But don't let it get to you.

[Shuemue]

FFXI still hits a hard limit based on CPU Speed (Frequency x Multi). IE if you have a 2.4GHz, 2 core cpu, the max cpu usage that FFXI will use is 50% (2.4Ghz) even if it is being evenly distributed between both cores. Again, this is a threading issue unfortunately and the problem wont go away until SE adds multicore support to the game and/or updates the graphics engine to use DX9/DX10 (it doesnt use DX9 right now, they just bs'd us with that shit to shut us up)

Anywho, @shuemue -> No dude, just no. I don't know if you are one of those "Vista haters" but get off your fucking high horse and accept the fact that Vista is a superior operating system. You forget that Vista is still maturing. XP has been out far longer than Vista, but you forget that when XP came out, it sucked ass too.

@alt
Not false. People who say they have no framerate issues are either a)lying or b)playing on settings that have less of a performance impact on their system, thus making FFXI perform better and not lag (as much). I dont know what settings you have FFXI at, but if tried to max the game out, you would most likely run into problems.

It also has a lot to do with anti-malware software actually too. I know a lot of av/as programs just do not play well with FFXI, even after you disable protection and/or remove FFXI from being monitored.

lol, you're probably a first year comp sci student, aren't you?

[Cephius]

Keep the flaming to a minimum people. As far as FFXI goes, the bottom line with Vista vs XP isn't that XP is necessarily better, you're just less likely to run into problems.

[shiarua]

lol, you're probably a first year comp sci student, aren't you?

No

[Sonomaa]

if you really want XP, get a dell business system (the vostro line), it has XP

[Kohan]

FFXI still hits a hard limit based on CPU Speed (Frequency x Multi). IE if you have a 2.4GHz, 2 core cpu, the max cpu usage that FFXI will use is 50% (2.4Ghz) even if it is being evenly distributed between both cores. Again, this is a threading issue unfortunately and the problem wont go away until SE adds multicore support to the game and/or updates the graphics engine to use DX9/DX10 (it doesnt use DX9 right now, they just bs'd us with that shit to shut us up)

I'm not referring to how much CPU power FFXI itself uses, but the fact that having your workload distributed across multiple cores leaves more space for FFXI. As in, if you had eight applications running and the core FFXI is using wasn't at half capacity, you would therefore have a healthy amount of juice for it. Nothing more complicated than that.

Anywho, @shuemue -> No dude, just no. I don't know if you are one of those "Vista haters" but get off your fucking high horse and accept the fact that Vista is a superior operating system.

This is very wrong. Vista has been proven time and time again to be inferior to XP, and you should not say the opposite, as it's spreading misinformation. By the time Vista could have "matured," the next Windows will be out. If anything, you are the one who's on a high horse, especially because you've blatantly denied someone without even trying to prove why you're right.

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showp...8&postcount=10

[shiarua]

You seem to be more concerned with "performance gains" than anything else. In most of those articles you posted, the difference in benchmarks between WinXP and Vista were very small, almost negligible especially with gaming, which is, what we are concerned about after all.

Gaming Performance -> http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2302495,00.asp

[Kohan]

The article you posted isn't any better. Once again, differences are negligible despite driver problems being "solved," and if anything, that makes the entire situation much more amusing. Vastly superior OS? Not in the least, especially considering that there are many pieces of hardware and software which still do not -- and never will -- run on it properly.

Why choose largely headache-inducing mediocrity when you have a much more flexible OS which produces the same gaming performance? I honestly don't know how anyone could choose Vista over XP and dare to defend the choice, if they're informed.

[Shuemue]

shiarua, gj posting a worthless article, it's either fucking ancient or the writer is garbage, it states you can't use directx10 on XP, there have been XP installs of dx10 available for months.

Care to try and find a credible source?

[shiarua]

Ive been a happy Vista user for over a year now. I was hesitant to make the switch and after using Vista Business for a few months, I quickly went back to XP. However, when I built a new machine, I dual booted both, with Vista Ultimate x64 as my primary OS and XP as my secondary solution. Eventually I reformatted everything and stuck solely with Vista x64

The problems Ive had (which have been very few and very far between) have been with 3rd party software (not the operating system).

[Shuemue]

I like my applications to work. I like my LAN to not require me to install additional components so XP boxes can see Vista boxes. I could go on, but you're happy with what you've got, that's great for you.

However, one swallow doesn't make a summer. I don't often pull the post count card, nor the join date, but after many months and hundreds of posts in Tech Support, I assure you that Vista still regularly throws up problems, both with FFXI (which was the point of the OP) and many other issues.