SAM Merit Order?

[Askari0]

What is the most commonly recommended Samurai merit order? I'm fixing to start meriting and I want to know what I'm doing before I do it.

tyvm in advance^^


Oh, also in light of the new (for me) spam forums theme:

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/541...3711773xs3.jpg
By askari0

[Eanae]

[Jedimasta]

lolask, go back to hokuten, advanced post etc etc

[RKenshin]

Moving to appropriate section, I'll answer it there.


EDIT: Ok,

It depends on what general merits (ie, combat, STR, critical) you have already.

As far as SAM specific merits go, I'd rank it:

1. Store TP - Cap these so you can get a 6-hit easier, and also mix in haste gear.

2. Meditate - Cap this as well. This is probably less important to DoT than Overwhelm, but being able to keep Meditate lined up with Berserk is a considerable plus. And otherwise most people probably waste too much time past recasts.

3. Overwhelm - Capped, 15% WS damage is too awesome.

4. Blade Blash - At least one merit. Doesn't matter what you do, being able to Stun with 90% success is amazing even with a long recast. With the update, I'm going to go 4/5 in this category.

5. Shikikoyo - At least one merit is useful.

If you're also doing combat merits, I would put those in after StoreTP.

[Askari0]

Moving to appropriate section, I'll answer it there.

>.< my bad ~4hrs of sleep and exams are killing me

[RKenshin]

Don't worry about it lol... People mix up forums often, it's not a problem as long as it's not spammed.

[Burginator]

Moving to appropriate section, I'll answer it there.


EDIT: Ok,

It depends on what general merits (ie, combat, STR, critical) you have already.

As far as SAM specific merits go, I'd rank it:

1. Store TP - Cap these so you can get a 6-hit easier, and also mix in haste gear.

2. Meditate - Cap this as well. This is probably less important to DoT than Overwhelm, but being able to keep Meditate lined up with Berserk is a considerable plus. And otherwise most people probably waste too much time past recasts.

3. Overwhelm - Capped, 15% WS damage is too awesome.

4. Blade Blash - At least one merit. Doesn't matter what you do, being able to Stun with 90% success is amazing even with a long recast. With the update, I'm going to go 4/5 in this category.

5. Shikikoyo - At least one merit is useful.

If you're also doing combat merits, I would put those in after StoreTP.

Nobody better to listen to, and that's the order I did the shit in.

[LinktheDeme]

I'd wait before putting anything in tier 2 because of the new update imo Shikikoyo would be amazing capped if its turning out how we think it is.

[Zanz L. Barre The 3rd]

A second opinion to consider:
-8 GKT
-3 Overwhelm
-5 Store TP
-5 Meditate
-2 Blade Bash
-1 Shikikoyo

That was the order I chose. The faster you can attain a 6-Hit set-up, the better, but I was pretty anxious for e-peen dmg haha; Overwhelm is easily one of the most insane merits! Getting 5/5 Meditate means an extra WS approximately every 15mins? So, again, pretty nice. I've heard some folks meriting Third Eye, which is find very interesting. 5/5 Third Eye would enable one to tank a bit more reliably, but you're definitely hindering your DMG output.

Also, I know you didn't quite ask for this... But invest in some -DMG/Defense gear. Definitely will save your ass numerous times.

[Askari0]

Thanks! I'll look at both of these orders and figure out what I need to do. Since I know it makes a difference in the merit order I have no previous merits seeing as how SAM is my first job to 75.

[Cream Soda]

When my sam dings 75, I plan to merit it as mnk until gkt, store tp, overwhelm, and meditate are capped. Then I'll go and merit the non DD ones as sam. (Don't wanna be puttin out gimp numbers when i first bust out my 75 sam lol)

[RKenshin]

I don't really see what would make Shikikoyo so great when capped. Honestly it's hard to use it frequent enough to keep up with recasts getting ready as it is. The only real purpose it ends up having is getting member's stored up on TP before an event like Einherjar, but otherwise it's rarely useful for much of anything else (at least as far as I can see). And even with the long recast it's usually good enough to get most in your PT all set before entering. I just end up using it when I feel generous any other time.

It's not like it adds damage either unless you setup SCs (which tends to be the opposite of what happens ). SAM's WS average is usually pretty high (especially with relic), so whether you do 2 WS or you do 1 WS and another DD does 1 WS doesn't really make a difference.

Ikishoten is also underwhelming. 15 TP on a zanshin proc is pretty awesome, but it's not enough to save a hit to 100 TP, defeating the purpose. And over 1000 swings with 95% accuracy, you'd only land a whopping 4 zanshin swings. Even at 85% accuracy, it's only 12.

Overwhelm on the other hand is obviously insane, and should be capped. Blade Bash also should be at least 4/5 IMO, just because being able to stun stuff is too good to pass up. Stunning things like dispelling wind, fang rush, firespit, -ga spells, death, perdition, frog chorus, and countless other TP attacks... Is just too good to pass up.

[Shafted!]

@ RK: You say blade bash is 90% but on what mobs, HNMs in particular?

[LogainDiabolos]

I saw it mentioned earlier in the thread about 5/5 third eye. Currently I'm 5/5 Med/STP but I frequently tank as sam/war for salvage runs. I'm having trouble deciding between dropping my med merits or not for third eye.
Would it be worth it in the long run for these salvage runs and also those exp parties that you get the crappy healer... or should i just laugh at my healers mp pool and continue to spam ws?

[FailureMidgard]

1 point in Shikikoyo is amazing. The order you get things in may slightly depend on what you are doing.

If you plan to low-man Limbus, or certain KS30s, or Einherjar like he said, I'd potentially consider that as the very first merit you spend. Also in Limbus, every hp/mp chest will restore the cooldown and the meditate cooldown, so you get plenty of chances to make it useful.

Also, for Ruke...this is different for you with a relic, but those times where you get "stuck" with >100 tp, the best use for that tp is to Shikikoyo it. Both Hagun and Onimaru suck with Sekkanoki. It is far more damage for your group to Shikikoyo the extra TP to another melee (since there is really nothing special about doing a self-skillchain in many situations, you can aways do one with someone else), so I could see meriting it further as beneficial with a Hagun. The 1 extra point now is meh...but going 4/5 after the update may be decent. I mean, it's that or Blade Bash, right?

Anyway, as far as asking order, I think it's all pretty irrelevant if you can merit a decent bit. GK, Store TP, and Overwhelm are all pretty much necessary to be able to even compete on a parse. Meditate is really good, and having a stun for some "oh shit" situations has saved a ton of people's lives. Shikikoyo is good for dumping extra TP, if you have a Hagun and care about group dmg more than yours, or for certain fight type things, as I said.


[Edit Below:]

LogainDiabolos - Just realize that Seigan halves 3rd eye recast. So it says -2 seconds per point, but with Seigan up, that's only -1 sec per point. So full merited it's 50sec no Seigan, 25 with Seigan. Sorry if you knew that already, but a lot of people don't.

[VZX]

I personally went 3/3 Overwhelm before anything else on Store TP
reason is you don't get to see your 6-hit workin before Store TP lv4 or 5, while Overwhelm will give you a real benefit everytime you merit it.

[LogainDiabolos]

LogainDiabolos - Just realize that Seigan halves 3rd eye recast. So it says -2 seconds per point, but with Seigan up, that's only -1 sec per point. So full merited it's 50sec no Seigan, 25 with Seigan. Sorry if you knew that already, but a lot of people don't.

Actually I didn't, thanks for the info! That helps me stick with my current merits and not feel bad about the few extra cures from my rdm.

[Kimkytaru]

Path I would use :

Overwhelm 3/3 (5/5 Mid-june) (in first just because a
Store tp 4/5 (means you can get haste setup + 6 hit with only hachiman hands + rajas + brutal (25+8+5+1+8=47storeTP)
GKT 8/8
Meditate 5/5 (maybe 3rd eyes if you tank a lot)
Critical Hit + 4/4
Store tp last merit
Shikikoyo 1/3 (1/5 Mid-june)
Str 5/5


This is what I would recommend. Then after str you can do blade bash or w/e you want. If you have a ls and is doing lots of ls event you can spend 1 pts on shikikoyo before cause all other melee will love ya.

[Xhu]

15 TP on a zanshin proc is pretty awesome, but it's not enough to save a hit to 100 TP, defeating the purpose. And over 1000 swings with 95% accuracy, you'd only land a whopping 4 zanshin swings. Even at 85% accuracy, it's only 12.

Thought id post in here as a lot of SAMs have already posted in and it seems relevant..

I was searching for some info on zanshin and saw rukes post - can anyone point me in the direction anyone doing any detailed research on zanshin proc rate or the effect of enhance zanshin items? how did you get 4/1000 - i havent seen that anywhere?

Thanks

[Wizerd]

15 TP on a zanshin proc is pretty awesome, but it's not enough to save a hit to 100 TP, defeating the purpose. And over 1000 swings with 95% accuracy, you'd only land a whopping 4 zanshin swings. Even at 85% accuracy, it's only 12.

Thought id post in here as a lot of SAMs have already posted in and it seems relevant..

I was searching for some info on zanshin and saw rukes post - can anyone point me in the direction anyone doing any detailed research on zanshin proc rate or the effect of enhance zanshin items? how did you get 4/1000 - i havent seen that anywhere?

Thanks

4/1000 comes from the fact that you can only Zanshin on missed hits. His example had 95% accuracy, which means 5% misses. Over the course of 1000 swings, you will miss 50 times - and 4 of those will proc Zanshin (This implies an 8% Zanshin rate).