RDM Tanking Post 6/21 - they all give 1CE/300VE now

[Cursed]

- "Enmity generation for the following spells has been adjusted:
Sleep / Sleep II / Dispel / Blind / Blind II / Bind"

I personally don't see this as the end of RDM/NIN.

I can see RDM/NINs not having the clear advantage they did over PLDs now, but to say that they are no longer able to tank because of this is blowing it out of proportion imo.

RDMs still have a larger MP pool, access to more fast cast through gear and traits, equal or superior DMG mitigation through spells and gear, and are capable of cure cheating just as well if not better than PLDs.

I do not think this is the end of RDM/NIN. I think this is just the end of easy street for RDM/NIN.

[Titanss]

holy fuck..

[Gosyac]

Until the actual values are determined, I don't think you can conclusively say anything yet. And unless their enmity values were lowered to near nothing, it'll still easy to cap and maintain hate with a spell rotation.

[shepardG]

what titanss said, they might have fucking made them go either way... sheesh

[Draylo]

Don't be delusional, it was a nerf people.

[BerenTebogo]

It only changes tanking. If anything rdm/nin is now even more overpowered bc of aquaveil. It really makes no sense but the only people SE listens to have no idea how the game works so obviously SE doesn't understand what to fix or nerf.

So, lol at making rdm a stronger solo/duo job but weakening tanking ability. This will surely inspire a revolution back towards group gameplay.

[finzenku]

Hopefully, if it is a nerf, it effects sleepga and sleepga II aswell.

[Cursed]

Increasing these spells enmity is highly unlikely.
Doing so would put PLD in the grave.
That is not going to happen.

It seems that whenever the player base finds a way to make any job compete with PLD in terms of tanking, PLD is either buffed or the competing job is nerfed.

While RDM/NIN tanking is nothing new, it is/was the only job left that truly did what PLD was meant to do, sometimes/often better than PLD, and with less hassle and MP.

If anything, I would bet this is the first set of nerfs to come RDMs way, if this initial nerf proves ineffective at deterring people from using RDM/NINs.

It is SE's game. They want us to play within the parameters they've created.

[TheMysteriousX]

It only changes tanking. If anything rdm/nin is now even more overpowered bc of aquaveil. It really makes no sense but the only people SE listens to have no idea how the game works so obviously SE doesn't understand what to fix or nerf.

So, lol at making rdm a stronger solo/duo job but weakening tanking ability. This will surely inspire a revolution back towards group gameplay.

This assumes that aquaveil wasn't a nerf too - nowhere in the notes does it say they've changed the interruption mod for it, only that it now wears off after n hits.

[Draylo]

Increasing these spells enmity is highly unlikely.
Doing so would put PLD in the grave.
That is not going to happen.

It seems that whenever the player base finds a way to make any job compete with PLD in terms of tanking, PLD is either buffed or the competing job is nerfed.

While RDM/NIN tanking is nothing new, it is/was the only job left that truly did what PLD was meant to do, sometimes/often better than PLD, and with less hassle and MP.

If anything, I would bet this is the first set of nerfs to come RDMs way, if this initial nerf proves ineffective at deterring people from using RDM/NINs.

It is SE's game. They want us to play within the parameters they've created.

They had also not anticipated NIN being a tank and look how that came about. They changed their viewpoint on it, I don't see why they would force people to stop using RDM this way.

[Callisto]

It might be nice, I'm sure you can still tank with it, just will take a bit longer to hit the cap. There's some fights I remember doing as backline RDM where I'd rather not have the normal hate on them, like the one Fairy VNM you have to spam Dispel on incessantly that also has hate reset moves.

[machiko]

If you look at it from a standpoint of what the spells are actually used for, you know sleep the mob, blind the mob how does increasing the emnity make any sense at all? If it was intended to get sleepers killed it would also say "sleepga 1 & 2" also. You can tell it's a nerf by the spells listed and the ones not.

100% it's a negative effect, why clasp at straws when you already know for certain what it means.

[Cursed]

Also, note that PLD/RDM will be effected as well.

Which reminds me, PLD 80 gets Phalanx.

Perhaps SE is also trying to push PLD away from needing /RDM to blood tank.
Providing PLD with access to Phalanx isn't really needed with Phalanx II already being available from a RDM.
But it is a hint, I think, from SE, of what their intentions are for PLD and RDM.
Basically, sub NIN when you are tanking old shit, and /WAR when you are blood tanking, because /RDM no longer offers you cheap hate.

[Bloomonkey]

Can't we just do it like the old PLD way where we spam Cure IV macroing in max HP sets?

[Callisto]

Also, note that PLD/RDM will be effected as well.

Which reminds me, PLD 80 gets Phalanx.

Perhaps SE is also trying to push PLD away from needing /RDM to blood tank.
Providing PLD with access to Phalanx isn't really needed with Phalanx II already being available from a RDM.
But it is a hint, I think, from SE, of what their intentions are for PLD and RDM.
Basically, sub NIN when you are tanking old shit, and /WAR when you are blood tanking, because /RDM no longer offers you cheap hate.

PLD/RDM already had Phalanx.

[Cursed]

Yes, RDM can cure cheat better than PLD, and has access to more enmity gear last time I checked, and definetely more HP-/MP+ gear.

But Compare the MP cost of a CIV vs Dispel/bind/blind and you will see how RDM no longer has it easy, and might be at a disadvantage now vs PLD/NIN.

[Cursed]

PLD/RDM already had Phalanx.

That's my point.
PLD now has Phalanx without /RDM. Meaning PLD can sub /WAR and have Defender + Phalanx.

I was making an argument that even as a sub, RDM has lost its luster.

[Kazen]

Someone needs to remake the picture from the rng nerf. The picture where the RNGs entered the building and left as BLMs. This time you can have RDMs enter and leave as either PLDs or DRKs.

[Araelus]

Someone needs to remake the picture from the rng nerf. The picture where the RNGs entered the building and left as BLMs. This time you can have RDMs enter and leave as either PLDs or DRKs.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1312/...44e9548f_o.png

[Mercilessturtle]

RDM is for tanking stuff you can't/shouldn't engage anyways. Stuff like ouryu or jol, where PLD is getting screwed just as much by the change since they went /rdm. Reducing RDM to the level of PLD for CE generation (having to cure cheat) isn't going to make PLD better. Now they are just on equal footing enmity wise, with RDM still having the advantage in survivability and support required. RDM also still has a much bigger MP pool + convert to allow them to get to CE cap faster.