Merit Mob DEF and Attack Cap Levels

[divisortheory]

Greater Colibri (VT)
Need to verify their level, but I'm going to assume 81 for now.
DEF: 336
Melee Attack Cap: 772
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia): 733
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia II): 694
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia III): 656


Battle Bugard (IT)
Level 83
DEF: 356
Melee Attack Cap: 836
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia): 794
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia II): 752
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia III): 710

Sea Puk (T)
Level 78
DEF: 318
Melee Attack Cap: 683
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia): 648
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia II): 614
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia III): 580

Mamool Ja Philosopher (IT)
Level 83
DEF: 340
Melee Attack Cap: 816
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia): 775
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia II): 734
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia III): 693

Skoffin (IT)
Level 83
DEF: 359
Melee Attack Cap: 861
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia): 817
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia II): 774
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia III): 731

Skoffin (VT)
Level 82
DEF: 354
Melee Attack Cap: 831
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia): 789
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia II): 747
Melee Attack Cap (with Dia III): 706

Will try to get more mobs later, but hard with merit camps are occupied >.>

The reason for this is to help you determine what gear to wear while meriting. If you know you're bringing a RDM with Dia III, and food + minuets put you over 656 attack on a Greater Colibri, you may want to consider swapping some of it out for haste, accuracy, or hell even DEX.

[aurik]

Can you also quote your methodology used to determine these values? (Not that I don't believe you, just saying it's useful if in the future we discover something which requires us to rework our theorycrafting)

[divisortheory]

Gear swaps and /check. Here's the data as I recorded it:

Greater Colibri
DEFENSE = 336
VT - low evasion - 439 - Low
VT - low evasion - 427 - Low
VT - low evasion - 424 - Low
VT - low evasion - 423 - Low
VT - low evasion - 422 - Low
VT - low evasion - 421 - Normal
VT - low evasion - 419 - Normal
VT - low evasion - 417 - Normal
VT - low evasion - 382 - Normal
VT - low evasion - 366 - Normal
VT - low evasion - 362 - Normal
VT - low evasion - 350 - Normal
VT - low evasion - 343 - Normal
VT - low evasion - 340 - Normal
VT - low evasion - 336 - Normal
VT - low evasion - 307 - High
VT - low evasion - 306 - High
VT - low evasion - 249 - High


DEFENSE - 356
Battle Bugard
IT - low evasion - 439 - Normal
IT - low evasion - 433 - Normal
IT - low evasion - 399 - Normal
IT - low evasion - 383 - Normal
IT - low evasion - 375 - Normal
IT - low evasion - 360 - Normal
IT - low evasion - 358 - Normal
IT - low evasion - 356 - Normal
IT - low evasion - 355 - High
IT - low evasion - 352 - High

Number in the 3rd column was my attack when I checked. On the 4th column is whether it checked normal, high, or low defense.

Edit: Then used VZX's information on his website:

Defense Information
Let AttackDefense Ratio = Your attack / monster defense.

/check will display the ratio without taking into account Level Correction function
If AttackDefenseRatio < 1.00 → High Defense
If AttackDefenseRatio > 1.25 → Low Defense
Other ratio range → No defense info displayed

[Zilong]

Is the defense value static or have minimal variation between levels?

[aurik]

Is the defense value static or have minimal variation between levels?

Minimal variation. Like plus-or-minus 5.

[Zilong]

Is the defense value static or have minimal variation between levels?

Minimal variation. Like plus-or-minus 5.

1 level = 1 defense?

[Kriz]

Wow, info like this is both amazingly awesome and amazingly nerdy!

I feel like if all mobs were so well defined the game would be so mechanical to swap into the supreme gear choice at a whim

[aurik]

Is the defense value static or have minimal variation between levels?

Minimal variation. Like plus-or-minus 5.

1 level = 1 defense?

No. Varies by family, but not by 1. A long time ago, someone found the defense values of deco weapons and aura statues by level, and I do believe they found that the delta for 1 level was not constant between the 2 families.

[divisortheory]

Managed to get Sea Puks and Philosophers finally, stupid RDM kept claiming with Dia >.>

[aurik]

Also, are you considering the level-difference penalty when calculating the attack caps?

[divisortheory]

Also, are you considering the level-difference penalty when calculating the attack caps?

Yes. Feel free to verify the math. The equation I'm using is:

Atk/EnemyDef - (EnemyLv - 75) x .05 = 2

Plug in EnemyDef and EnemyLv, solve for Atk to get the cap.

[divisortheory]

BTW, since we know the mob's exact DEF now, is there an easy way to get the mob's VIT?

[Khamsin]

Hmm... Is there any way to reliably test automaton attack rating (say, on ronfaure rabbits to ensure capped attack) to find out:

1) an automaton's base Attack rating
2) the actual effect of Attuner (e.g. It appears to ignore a percentage of mob defense, since when a crawler uses Cocoon, its damage doesn't decrease much whereas player melee damage does, but its hard to quantify any of this)
3) to see if automaton's even follow player damage formulas at all

I can't force a crit on my automaton, so I can't look at repeated high crit numbers. Would I get any meaningful information from repeated normal hit numbers?

I'm not even sure I can test any of this on ronfaure rabbits because all that tells me is my attack is capped, but not what it really is. I'm not sure exactly what I should test it on, since I can't /check for my automaton either.

[divisortheory]

Hmm... Is there any way to reliably test automaton attack rating (say, on ronfaure rabbits to ensure capped attack) to find out:

1) an automaton's base Attack rating
2) the actual effect of Attuner (e.g. It appears to ignore a percentage of mob defense, since when a crawler uses Cocoon, its damage doesn't decrease much whereas player melee damage does, but its hard to quantify any of this)
3) to see if automaton's even follow player damage formulas at all

I can't force a crit on my automaton, so I can't look at repeated high crit numbers. Would I get any meaningful information from repeated normal hit numbers?

I'm not even sure I can test any of this on ronfaure rabbits because all that tells me is my attack is capped, but not what it really is. I'm not sure exactly what I should test it on, since I can't /check for my automaton either.

One way which would suck, but doable, would be to gather info similar to the above for every mob in the game (ideally, obviously you don't actually need every mob in the game for this, but rather just a nice distribution across all level ranges). Then you can gradually work your way up the chain starting with low DEF and going to higher DEF until you find a mob where the automaton's Atk isn't capped anymore. The hardest part would be just gathering info like the above for every mob in the game.

In the case of the above, I know my Atk already, so it only leaves one variable in the equation (the mob's DEF). You wouldn't be able to figure out the Automaton's Atk unless you could narrow it down to one variable.

[aurik]

BTW, since we know the mob's exact DEF now, is there an easy way to get the mob's VIT?

Not that I know of. Best way that I've figured is to reverse engineer fstr from dmg mode, which gives about a 4-point range for vit (usually I just use it to determine what my fSTR bonus is, without working all the way back to VIT)

[sephir]

Great job but I have just one question:

Did you do this to various mobs in the same area? not all mobs are the exact same, one Puk may be slightly stronger than the one beside it. I dont know if it will make a difference in the data but just thought id ask.

[divisortheory]

Great job but I have just one question:

Did you do this to various mobs in the same area? not all mobs are the exact same, one Puk may be slightly stronger than the one beside it. I dont know if it will make a difference in the data but just thought id ask.

I did for some, you can see the difference between an VT and an IT Skoffin above. For some mobs it's harder to tell because there's 2 or 3 levels in the same range that all check VT. Eventually I'll go back and do more, the best way to distinguish between that situation is do like 4 or 5 mobs, then sort them in order of increasing DEF, which should correspond to increasing level as well.

I guessed on that Sea Puk that I listed as Lv. 78, but if I ever go back and find another Puk with slightly higher DEF I'll mark that one as lv. 79, etc until such time that the Lv. I came up with doesn't match up with the /check, and then I'll adjust all the levels by 1. If I could solo them that would be easier :D

[Kattice]

This is amazingly handy and should be used or archived somewhere. I'm still missing the mamool ja/ mire ones, but ultimately just hitting that upper PDIF bracket would be ideal and finally we got hard numbers.


Can I ask a nerdy question though?

How did you go about getting the defense pinned? What kind of gear did you use to pinpoint them?

[divisortheory]

This is amazingly handy and should be used or archived somewhere. I'm still missing the mamool ja/ mire ones, but ultimately just hitting that upper PDIF bracket would be ideal and finally we got hard numbers.


Can I ask a nerdy question though?

How did you go about getting the defense pinned? What kind of gear did you use to pinpoint them?

I basically just brought a ton of gear with +Attack, and a few pieces with -Attack. I'd swap in and out various pieces of gear, write down my Atk, and then check the mob. I'd add or remove attack to go higher or lower until the message changed. When I went from normal to high, I'd remove some gear till I went back to normal, then I'd add some more gear till I went back to high, etc. Near the end it's really hard to pinpoint that last number. Because you can't always find a way to remove gear and add other gear to get exactly +1, or -1. I know I looked like a complete idiot out there with standing around naked with a mandau with no body armor but swapping out all kinds of stupid leg armor like Republic Subligar and stuff. The gear I used was:

Onion Dagger
Mandau
Blau Dolch
Bomb Core
Hecatomb Cap
Love Torque
Spike Necklace
Beetle Earring+1 x2
Dragon Harness
Hecatomb Harness
Dusk Gloves
Flame Ring
Rajas Ring
Forager's Mantle
Swift Belt
Warwolf Belt
Republic Subligar
Hecatomb Leggings

and just keep playing around with stuff until you get the exact amount of Atk you're looking for then check it again and repeat.

[Sidanoir]

Wow cool stuff and nice info..

So basically you just played with your attack and kept Conning the mob until you went from High defense to no comment to low defense and that those messages have a set value? Thats the jist of what you are saying unless I misunderstand you. So my question is how do you find out that set value ? Or did someone do some tests about that in the past.