Sam with Seigan

[Katalya]

So here is the situation:

After 3 years I finally get my rl friends to play this game. We are in a static in the 50-51 range. Our party setup is SMN/WHM, BLM/WHM, WAR/NIN, THF/NIN, and SAM/WAR.

Of coarse a PLD or a NIN would be ideal to complete the party. Every night we play, the tank search can take most of our night away. I am the smn and have played a mage type class my whole ffxi career. My best friend brought the attention that let the war main tank and him, the sam backup tank using Seigan. Bouncing back the mob back and forth and find a WHM or RDM to fill the sixth spot. I know Seigan is a new abillity which probably hasn't had enough testing, so I was wondering if it might work in our situation. I personally don't think it will work, but for the sake of everyone in my party I thought I could at least get opinions from other people that might have a better idea.

If you have any suggestions please help us out. Thanks in advance. :D

[Sonomaa]

I honestly think youd be better off just waiting for a PLD or NIN to show up, your risking a lot relying on a good roll of a sam move and on everyone being able to bounce hate correctly. Your at lesser colibri level and PLDs do quite well on those with refresh and good healing.

[Judai]

SAM is NOT a tank. Seigan helps you survive. Anyone saying they tank amazingly well with it is lying, unless they are RK and have like -50% dmg reduction shit.

One Fight the SAM won't get hit, the next he will get beat to death. Seigan is amazingly random.

It is possible to work, but your party is gonna be kinda gimpy. You would have 2 people more so trying to stay alive then tank. Better of waiting for a PLD or NIN or another WAR/NIN to bounce hate with.

edit: not implying your firend is lying, just tired of people saying they are an amazing tank on SAM. If it was so great, I could at least solo better, lol.

[Katalya]

Thanks Sonomaa

SAM is NOT a tank. Seigan helps you survive. Anyone saying they tank amazingly well with it is lying, unless they are RK and have like -50% dmg reduction shit.

One Fight the SAM won't get hit, the next he will get beat to death. Seigan is amazingly random.

It is possible to work, but your party is gonna be kinda gimpy. You would have 2 people more so trying to stay alive then tank. Better of waiting for a PLD or NIN or another WAR/NIN to bounce hate with.

So if all else fails instead of waiting for a nin or pld, just get a war/nin so our night isn't lost?

[Eddie]

Though I just got Seigen in the 60's, when I need to use it, it's good. But you will get nowhere tanking.

PLD + NIN ONRY!

[Judai]

So if all else fails instead of waiting for a nin or pld, just get a war/nin so our night isn't lost?

Yea, you could bounce hate ok between 2 WAR/NIN, with a THF. Will be easier when they get Rampage too. Mobs will die so fast.

2 WAR is last choice tho. NIN and PLD are way better.

[Martinius]

seigan is great. but it doesnt make samurai a tank. i have solo'd vanguard eyes in dynamis xarcabard with little more than seigan and tachi: gekko. there have also been times where a mob looked at me, lost third eye right off and was going 'oshi' for 27 seconds.

what seigan doesn't do:
make you a tank

what seigan does do:
makes you the best trick partner in the game
lets you push the hate line a little further without being an mp sponge.
increases survivability soloing or in tankless situations(tank dies, etc)

it's a lot of fun, but as everyone has said, pld, nin or war ftw.

[Kaylia]

In a good pt, you could do that no problem, however, no brd, a thf, a smn, a blm and possibly no refresh might give you some trouble in the 60 with sam and war as only tank. You will kill too slow, and that setup take more dmg than other. You would be better with something safer

edit: not implying your firend is lying, just tired of people saying they are an amazing tank on SAM. If it was so great, I could at least solo better, lol.

It work pretty damn well. Join a PT with me if you dont think it does. >_> I will show you sam can have hate most of the time, without any drawback. However, "amazing tank" isnt the word, Sam is a nice melee, who can now play an important role in tp burn pt. They wont take much more dmg than your war/nin or mnk/nin.

My only grudge with seigan is that it doesnt work with Ridill. Haste+brd+ridill is overpowered on sam so far. Only draw back is that you cant tank, and none of the pickup people will keep hate.

[Demitrius]

Solo tanking SAM is hard, I did it in the mid 50's, we were fine but I had a RDM+WHM to cure me. We have good evasion, the best parrying, and usually more defense than a NIN of the same level. It was constant chains, and Third Eye has the added benefit of not being interruptable. Also, it sucks up entire Pecking Flurries like they're a tap on the shoulder.

What I COULD see working very well is dual SAM tanks, if they're in synch very well. With Seigan, Third Eye usually leaves you protected for 15-20 seconds... it almost never fades before 10, or lasts past 20. With two, you could easily alternate and rarely get hit. It's not hard to keep it timed, because you can just Third Eye + Voke whenever they're up, with your cycles offset by 15 seconds. Also, if you're worth a damn on attack, you'll have no trouble keeping hate by damage alone. The only catch is that you'd have to be careful with casters, and you can't suck up AoE.

I'd say that a single NIN or PLD is a better tank than a single SAM, but SAM is leagues ahead of any other job besides those in tanking ability for xp purposes.

[Katalya]

So if all else fails instead of waiting for a nin or pld, just get a war/nin so our night isn't lost?

Yea, you could bounce hate ok between 2 WAR/NIN, with a THF. Will be easier when they get Rampage too. Mobs will die so fast.

2 WAR is last choice tho. NIN and PLD are way better.

We tried 2 war last night, wasn't too bad... at least we got xp instead of waiting for a tank. One war died I think twice, and so did the blm. It slowed our xp party up a lot bouncing back the hate, it killed my mp curing 4 different people and we had 3 skillchains going, but after every skillchain the blm magic bursted, always got hate and damn near got killed everytime.

In a good pt, you could do that no problem, however, no brd, a thf, a smn, a blm and possibly no refresh might give you some trouble in the 60 with sam and war as only tank. You will kill too slow, and that setup take more dmg than other. You would be better with something safer

Thank god we are just trying to catch up to my other friend which is a 56 nin, so all of this is just temperary till we can just static with him.

[Credos]

Honestly, Seigan is entirely too random to be used as a viable means to tank. I was in the Aery when it first came out and dodged the attacks of all spiders on the way out. Other times, I've lost Third eye after 2 hits.

I've tanked before on SAM in an exp PT when the PLD was horrible, but it still is no where near as effective as PLD or NIN.

Why not just get one of your friends to level NIN or PLD? If you work at it you can get one of those jobs up fast, while working on the sub jobs the rest of the party needs.

[Katalya]

Honestly, Seigan is entirely too random to be used as a viable means to tank. I was in the Aery when it first came out and dodged the attacks of all spiders on the way out. Other times, I've lost Third eye after 2 hits.

I've tanked before on SAM in an exp PT when the PLD was horrible, but it still is no where near as effective as PLD or NIN.

Why not just get one of your friends to level NIN or PLD? If you work at it you can get one of those jobs up fast, while working on the sub jobs the rest of the party needs.

Another question my friends had was 2nd WAR/NIN vs. SAM/WAR as backup tank.

And also all my friends have all thier subjobs lvled shy of the sam only having a 20+ thf sj. This is just a bridge way untill we catch up to my friend that is a 56 NIN.

[Xavier]

So here is the situation:

After 3 years I finally get my rl friends to play this game. We are in a static in the 50-51 range. Our party setup is SMN/WHM, BLM/WHM, WAR/NIN, THF/NIN, and SAM/WAR.

I honestly can't imagine a PLD wanting to join that party.

SMN main healer, no refresh. Only form of haste comes from Garuda. Unless you guys are using second chars to powerlevel, I know I'd personally have been weary of accepting an invite to a party like this while lvling the job.

I'd personally rather have a RDM in that party, as long as the WAR and SAM are both intelligent players who voke when the other starts taking damage. Lack of refresh, haste, immediate dispel seem like kind of a bummer.

[Demitrius]

I just realized the presence of a WAR/NIN. With two DD's like a SAM and a WAR co-tanking, if you do a good job trading hate, mobs will be dead before they have a chance to hurt you very much. The 55-75 progression has gotten retardedly easy to tank, going Lesser Colibri > Puk > Colibri > Eruca > Imp/Jnun. All you need is sufficient healing to support it, and you'll be set for a while.

[Judai]

Yea, I said 2 WAR would be harder but might work. It's a last resort thing and takes some party work to manage hate. Cut downon the MBs and it would work. BLM needs to watch his hate with no real tank.

edit: not implying your firend is lying, just tired of people saying they are an amazing tank on SAM. If it was so great, I could at least solo better, lol.

It work pretty damn well. Join a PT with me if you dont think it does. >_> I will show you sam can have hate most of the time, without any drawback. However, "amazing tank" isnt the word, Sam is a nice melee, who can now play an important role in tp burn pt. They wont take much more dmg than your war/nin or mnk/nin.

I take like no damage on MNK/NIN, unless it's AoE. >.> I tried SAM/WAR in Mire the other day with a great party. NIN,WAR,MNK,SAM,BRD,RDM. I got RAPED. Imps kicked my ass, Jnun kicked my ass, Flys freaken owned me. Once in awhile I held my own but I ended up switching to SAM/THF and the party destroyed everything. Ended up getting like 25k after I switched, even as a 72 with 75s in the party.

btw, my comment wasn't directed at you. It was at the people saying they now tank everything, like gods and shit as SAM all the time.

[Credos]

In my experience, 2 X WAR/NIN tanking revolves heavily around Carnage Elegy. Keep in mind that WAR needs to do more than just voke to keep hate (e.g. Damage), and until you reach 74 that 4 second cast time is a few attack rounds you are missing out on.

I'd suggest going dual WAR/NIN, SAM/THF and 3 support jobs to get the job done. You should be able to do some decent L2 SC, and I doubt that even when your SAM gets Kasha that the WAR will want to go with Mistral > Kasha.

[Katalya]

So here is the situation:

After 3 years I finally get my rl friends to play this game. We are in a static in the 50-51 range. Our party setup is SMN/WHM, BLM/WHM, WAR/NIN, THF/NIN, and SAM/WAR.

I honestly can't imagine a PLD wanting to join that party.

SMN main healer, no refresh. Only form of haste comes from Garuda. Unless you guys are using second chars to powerlevel, I know I'd personally have been weary of accepting an invite to a party like this while lvling the job.

I'd personally rather have a RDM in that party, as long as the WAR and SAM are both intelligent players who voke when the other starts taking damage. Lack of refresh, haste, immediate dispel seem like kind of a bummer.

I agree with you to a point, I understand it is not the typical party setup with no refresher, If I was a pld I probably would be skeptic too. But when we find a daring pld or nin that doesn't care about the traditional party, we actually shred through IT mobs with no trouble. 3 skillchains with MB each fight is enough to still obtain chain 5 without resting. The problem I see us having now is hate control. I don't care if the melee gets beat up, I have enough MP to keep them healed, but after every MB, the Blm just about dies.

[Credos]

So here is the situation:

After 3 years I finally get my rl friends to play this game. We are in a static in the 50-51 range. Our party setup is SMN/WHM, BLM/WHM, WAR/NIN, THF/NIN, and SAM/WAR.

I honestly can't imagine a PLD wanting to join that party.

SMN main healer, no refresh. Only form of haste comes from Garuda. Unless you guys are using second chars to powerlevel, I know I'd personally have been weary of accepting an invite to a party like this while lvling the job.

I'd personally rather have a RDM in that party, as long as the WAR and SAM are both intelligent players who voke when the other starts taking damage. Lack of refresh, haste, immediate dispel seem like kind of a bummer.

BLM could sub RDM, and you could use Yagudo Drinks and exp in Aht Urgan areas only. >_>

But honestly I agree with Xavier, its a bit too much of a stretch at this point for me to want to join the party.

[Kaylia]

Yea, I said 2 WAR would be harder but might work. It's a last resort thing and takes some party work to manage hate. Cut downon the MBs and it would work. BLM needs to watch his hate with no real tank.

edit: not implying your firend is lying, just tired of people saying they are an amazing tank on SAM. If it was so great, I could at least solo better, lol.

It work pretty damn well. Join a PT with me if you dont think it does. >_> I will show you sam can have hate most of the time, without any drawback. However, "amazing tank" isnt the word, Sam is a nice melee, who can now play an important role in tp burn pt. They wont take much more dmg than your war/nin or mnk/nin.

I take like no damage on MNK/NIN, unless it's AoE. >.> I tried SAM/WAR in Mire the other day with a great party. NIN,WAR,MNK,SAM,BRD,RDM. I got RAPED. Imps kicked my ass, Jnun kicked my ass, Flys freaken owned me. Once in awhile I held my own but I ended up switching to SAM/THF and the party destroyed everything. Ended up getting like 25k after I switched, even as a 72 with 75s in the party.

btw, my comment wasn't directed at you. It was at the people saying they now tank everything, like gods and shit as SAM all the time.

That's BS. A PT wouldnt have went for bad to good just because of your sub, especially with this setup. And seriously, imp are one of the easiest thing to tank with sam's demon killer trait. Jhun are T, hit like pussy and really slow, especially with elegy on them.

[Okuza]

That's BS. A PT wouldnt have went for bad to good just because of your sub, especially with this setup. And seriously, imp are one of the easiest thing to tank with sam's demon killer trait. Jhun are T, hit like pussy and really slow, especially with elegy on them.

Burn parties often just assume that every melee in the party is sub/nin. Few work at holding agro off of another melee. Voke is reserved for yanking incoming stuff off the puller (so puller can sleep it) and for pulling off a healer that curagaIV'd after a couple spheres or got some sit-agro. Sooo, the SAM getting pasted when he can't plant some extra agro on a sub/nin melee isn't too surprising.