New WeaponSkill Chart

[Psymia]

Hello there
I've been working, the last half year or so, on a new WS Chart.
--> http://psymia.mine.nu
About 3 Years ago when i first started to get interrested in WS's i found a file called wse.pdf
I've used that one ever since.
But over the time and with new expansions comming out this chart is a bit outdated.
So i made a new one.
One thing i ever wanted to be in a WS-Chart is to be able to "see" how "good" a WS is. Not "good" in the sense of "this WS gives this and this effect" but more the "RAW-dmg-good". I'm still missing BLU-Magic DMG and Staff-DMG.
SMN is in the works (doing lots of tests with a friend)

I'd be happy about every feedback i can get.

http://psymia.mine.nu


Some preventive explanations about feedback i already got:
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About the size.
I know it's big, but i dont think it's too big to be impractical.
The size is so that it fits well on an A3.
You can print it on an A4 and still can read it. (But your printer need's to be good enought)

For those who dont have a Color-printer.
A black/white version will come as soon as the dmg-stuff is finished.

------------------------------------------------
About the layout.
Upperside --> DD / Advanced Class Weapons.
Middle Part --> SMN / PUP / BLU
Lower Part --> Weapons everyone starts with (Club, Staff, Sword, Dagger)

The rest i just fitted in where i could (like archery/markmanship)
I also had some problems with arranging the WS's that have 3 elements (now all in the left column)

------------------------------------------------
The DMG-part is purely the RAW-DMG a WS does. Not how well it performs within a SC or how good it is if you stack it with SA.
I know that with different TP multis differnt WS's are differntly "good".
I just didnt know how i could put them so you can see it.
In the first beta i had every MOD and every TP-multiplier in the chart (you can think it was BIG....)
I hope someday i find a solution to how i can display it without wasting too much space.

I thought about leaving the dmg part out.
But if you're planning a SC and dont really know how "good" a WS is, it helps to have a "vague" pointer.
Maybe i have to put in a note that the dmg-indicator is not to be seen too serious.

-----------------------------------------------------
I know there are SC-calculators (i use the firefox extension myself).
I just dont like them :D
I just think i can display more information in a more readable way than with a calculator.
(And a chart does not need... you know.. power to run )

[Heian]

I don't want to burst your bubble but there are a lot of good WS calculators already out.

I don't know how many people actually use Renkei charts any more but what you have done looks pretty decent.

The BLU abilities are a nice touch though.

[Khamsin]

Could be a good resource, you should post it in the Newbie section.

[Psymia]

@heian: updated first post

I thought i shouldnt crosspost.
And since i'm looking for feedback on a "beta-version" thought i'd post it in the advanced part where i can get feedback

[Tajin]

thought i'd post it in the advanced part where i can get feedback

There is a lot of feedback in the newbie section, most people think because it reads newbie, only tards post there, which is far far from the truth.

[archibaldcrane]

I much prefer charts that show what skillchain is made from WS to WS directly - having to reference the skillchain properties of a WS, then checking how those properties make effects, is just another needless step. The 1/2/3 tiers of some WSs is less confusing.

[Khamsin]

Plus, you'll get a different kind of response.

Skillchain charts, Sky maps, etc. posted in Newbie get:
Oh, good work, that'll definitely help. I knew most of that, but I never realized that one part. Don't forget to mark this on there, too!

Skillchain charts, Sky maps, etc. posted in Advanced get:
This is an advanced topic? 2004 called and they want their thread back. GTFO and go to Newbie where shit like this belongs.

[Lexa]

I much prefer charts that show what skillchain is made from WS to WS directly

Seconded, but kudos on the hard work. :O

[Priran]

Tachi: Yukikaze ... Good
Tachi: Gekko ... Best
Tachi: Kasha ... Best

lol'd a bit

[Stelaereous]

I think this is horrible and a visual mess. You're right in saying this just adds another step. The other charts out there that list WS>WS are much easier to follow. This is way too big and has too much information even. Thumbs down. Would never use this.

[eva00r]

Don't put the DMG things in there if you really don't know what's that WS really do.

[LD]

I like having a sheet of paper I can flip out, scan quickly and immediately apply, so I like this.
It makes you actually memorize stuff instead of suffering through a jumble of arrows just to find out no, you can't make a lvl 3 with just MNK & THF. You should have had the boxes in the lvl 2 sections rearranged, so the arrows point to the correct element to create the SC in the same box, but most people should be able to use common sense there.

Also yea, this really doesn't belong in advanced. You wont reach anyone here that you wouldn't in the nub section. It isn't any more important than anything in nub, so coming here in an attempt to reach more people is a little self-righteous. :/

[Spira]

I much prefer charts that show what skillchain is made from WS to WS directly - having to reference the skillchain properties of a WS, then checking how those properties make effects, is just another needless step. The 1/2/3 tiers of some WSs is less confusing.

3rded...

I'd say Adennaks was pretty good, but its not been updated for the longest time... PUP automaton ws.. and the lv3/relic ws part coulda been done better imo...
someone shd get on it ^^

[Zarath]

It's not bad, for DMG, I'd rather you put in the stat mods of each WS rather than good, bad, worst, ect. Most people can figure out that sort of crap easily.

For most people I feel this chart might be a bit overwhelming though without any explanation to how to use it and what not, guess that's my two cents.

And yea this doesn't really belong here.

[Psymia]

@Archibaldcrane:
I think this is purely about preferences.
I myself preferr to know how the WS's are connected globally.
WS-->WS might be easier to read but i think how i display it is better (for me?) because i can see how i could make a 3stage WS or a 4stage WS chain (ok it's not used that much).

But if you want to make a lvl3 chain and dont have the right WS's with you, you can read out of the WSE-approach pretty easy how you can chain 2x lvl1 and 1x lvl3 to get L3 Light or Darkness.
I havent seen in a WS-->WS chart where you can see that.

@Priran:
Already got feedback on this one. After looking at the multis and Mods and seeing that all are exactly the same i will have to talk to the SAM that gave me this infos again ^^"

@eva00r:
This is still a beta. I'm posting here to get feedback BECAUSE i dont know exactly how well each WS performs.

@LD:
Have been thinking about about to arrange the lvl2/lvl1 effects.
maybe something with bended arrows.

@Zarath: In an early version i had all Mod's and Mulits in.
THEN it was unreadable :D
After much feedback from other forums too i'm thinking about making 2 Versions. A public one without the DMG part and one for myself with the dmg *g*


Thank you everyone for your feedback.

[Plow]

But if you want to make a lvl3 chain and dont have the right WS's with you, you can read out of the WSE-approach pretty easy how you can chain 2x lvl1 and 1x lvl3 to get L3 Light or Darkness.
I havent seen in a WS-->WS chart where you can see that.

See, the thing is, this is something you need to know in order to be "advanced." (and the only "new" thing for a chart really, if you can even call it that as what you're talking about is there on old ones, just not presented very clearly)

Sorry but if you don't know by now how your own WS work, at least enough to say for instance "well can you make distortion and I can close with asuran for darkness?" well, that's an issue for the other section.


To put it the most positive sounding way I can think of:

The good players in this game know the basics inside outside upside down and every other way imaginable. Most of the players participating in endgame now know most of the advanced stuff every bit as well.

Skillchains are *very* basic. Even most advanced things are shat on in the advanced section, because if it's not either: A. something nobody can figure out, B. drama, or C. Elmer-esque awesome information, it's probably something most of the people here already knew.

People are trying to help you by telling you to take it to the newbie section, not to insult or whatever. You'll get good feedback there. Anyway a mod will probably do you a favor and move it soon anyway.

[Tyche]

Seriously, quit fucking whining about what section it's in, and actually do something useful, like, you know, critique the actual information. It blows my mind that someone's in-game drama with a he/she girlfriend can go into advanced without a single complaint, but this whole thread has dedicated itself to what belongs where. Then again, maybe drama is much more advanced than the most comprehensive WS chart I've ever seen. I guess my priorities are shot. Someone will move it if they feel it's in need of a move. So, onto that: The "dmg" section, throw it out. It adds to the clutter.

[Maksudyst]

Personally, I think it's a great chart. It's much more up-to-date than the one I have laying around which is in the same format pretty much. Also, I think it's better know the the elements of each weaponskill to figure out what two ws's to use to make a skillchain rather than just saying this ws and this ws make this sc... I think! When you know the elements of each ws, you can figure things out much faster than popping up a skillchain calculator. Then again, that's just me!

PS: Here's the one I was talking about!

Edit: I agree with Zealot about pulling the damage rating ("best", "worst", etc.), and put in primary and secondary modifiers of each ws.

[Psymia]

This doesn't tell me how to make Cosmic Elucidation.

Obviously very well researched and had a lot of time and effort put into it though. I agree that you should take out the damage ratings and put in the stat mods for each WS.

I took much time to find out how you can can make that.
For players it NOT POSSIBLE.

Cosmic Elucidation is a lvl4 Chain (with 8 Elements) which "should" result out of a L3 Light --> Darkness or Darkness --> L3 Light.
But if you do that nothing happens.
Somewhere on youtube exists a video of someone .DAT Swapping a Cosmic Elucidation. Looks pretty nice

[Psymia]

A new Version is on the page in which i'm trying to bring feedback in.
In the new version the whole DMG-part is gone.
I also changed the look of the Diagram in the middle a bit.