Merc. Kris questions

[Koyangi]

Before any negative vibes get thrown around, I'm making this topic here to get a general consesus of what I'm about to type below, this mainly stems from an argument (per se) that I had in my LS with a couple of thf's (yes I know I'm not a thf), plz read everything I have to say then feel free to add on/agree/disagree.

The issue: what's the best offhand weapon for a 75 thf, if he/she owns a blau dolch or mandau(mainhand).

I talk to a thf on my server who has the best gear and maxxed merits for thf (barring hq versions of said gear and a mandau). He is most likely the best thf on Siren that doesnt own a mandau(only a thf with mandau has outparsed him). He told me some time ago the best setup was (blau or mandau)/merc kris. The thf's in my LS (only 2) were arguing sirroco was better for DoT + TP gain.

They argued the 8 dmg on Merc kris was too low vs sirrico's 21, barring the fact that merc kris can hit like a ridill(the 2-3 part, not the base dmg part), and thf has the appropriate dagger skill to make it that much better than a ridill. The thf I talked to above even told me has only hit for zero with kris in dynamis-xarcabrd, spoofing the argument that the 8 dmg makes the kris useless for TP gain vs sirroco.

If war's had to choose 1 thing about the ridill that makes it good, it isnt the dmg, its the fact it can hit 2-3 times, in TP gaining situations and TP spam parties, its how they can rampage almost 25% faster than a non-ridill war. Yes the 40 dmg just makes it that much better, but seriously, I'd see it still being used if it was 30 or even 25.

So basically, I want to know what the endgamers who read this site often think, and would know whats better or not (since I'm not actually a thf) as to whats the best/most effective offhand thf weapon for TP spam parties, or just exp in general. (its not that good on HNM's because 8 dmg will hit for 0 alot/ so sirroco wins there). And this thread could be referenced if what I say is true, and show it to those who were telling me to stfu or that this thf I was getting my info from was wrong, blah blah blah.

I believe the thf I'm talking to, and say (blau or mandau)/merc kris is the best setup, but what i say on my LS has no credibilty because my thf is only level 30 .

[Toadicus]

I'm not a thief, but since THF's don't have the massive dmg per hit a MNK or WAR would have, I'd assume ultimate TP gain is the goal as you can WS more than once per fight.

Just a guess. With anything, go with the setup that parses highest with your gear/playing style.

[Xavier]

my thf is only level 30 .

I haven't laughed so hard in a really long time. I was reading the post and just burst into tears when I saw that.

I heard the base dmg on the dagger REALLY does suck in the end, and you end up giving the mob tp for doing 10 dmg hits. If mob TP doesn't matter, I'd probably use the kris.

[Koyangi]

my thf is only level 30 .

I haven't laughed so hard in a really long time. I was reading the post and just burst into tears when I saw that.

I heard the base dmg on the dagger REALLY does suck in the end, and you end up giving the mob tp for doing 10 dmg hits. If mob TP doesn't matter, I'd probably use the kris.

Well the info I posted was all from this thf on my server, dont bash the messenger, I was being honest in saying my thf was 30. And nobody is arguing that the massive TP you give mobs with ridill just to get 100 tp fast makes it suck, so honestly that isnt the issue here. It may be 10 dmg, but thats 5(?) tp quicker to WS right there.

[Janice]

I've only partied with one THF that actually had the kris. I wanted to kill him. It was a traditional party setup with a skillchain. There was absolutely no point in using the kris when you still had to wait for the sc partner to hit 100tp. BTW, this was on dhamels, so it really sucks seeing healing breath a lot more.

[Xavier]

Well the info I posted was all from this thf on my server, dont bash the messenger, I was being honest in saying my thf was 30. And nobody is arguing that the massive TP you give mobs with ridill just to get 100 tp fast makes it suck, so honestly that isnt the issue here. It may be 10 dmg, but thats 5(?) tp quicker to WS right there.

But thats because ridill actually hits for respectible numbers. I just meant in HNM situations. People are less likely to complain that a ridill is hitting fafnir for 60 dmg every swing vs. the kris hitting him for 5-10.

I wasn't bashing you lol, I just thought it was a priceless way to end the post.

[Koyangi]

Well, just focusing on a TP burn party then, because I can see the point about catching up with TP partner (even though the thf could WS twice as often, soloing 1 of his WS's). On the other hand I've never heard war's complaining about TP moves in warx4 brd rdm pt's (all war's with a ridill). 19k/hr in Ul range, yes please.

[Dezzimal]

I've only partied with one THF that actually had the kris. I wanted to kill him. It was a traditional party setup with a skillchain. There was absolutely no point in using the kris when you still had to wait for the sc partner to hit 100tp. BTW, this was on dhamels, so it really sucks seeing healing breath a lot more.

I did the exact same thing and had no problems at all, I was NIN in the party. Said THF had a Rajas ring for some subtle blow so that might have helped. SC partner was a samurai BTW...2 skillchains a fight.

[Ichthyos]

Afaik, our Triple Attack job trait can't proc when Kris's 2-3 attack procs. If you have Homam and Lv5 Triple merits, I'd go Blau + Sirocco for more DoT and WS dmg.

[Quicklet]

They argued the 8 dmg on Merc kris was too low vs sirrico's 21, barring the fact that merc kris can hit like a ridill(the 2-3 part, not the base dmg part), and thf has the appropriate dagger skill to make it that much better than a ridill. The thf I talked to above even told me has only hit for zero with kris in dynamis-xarcabrd, spoofing the argument that the 8 dmg makes the kris useless for TP gain vs sirroco.

THF has the wonderful task to figuring out which pair of about 8 fucking weapons they should use (assuming they're actually able to choose 2 and not 1 for a fight). I've never used Sirocco or Mercurial Kris, but 8 damage is basically asking for shitty damage on almost anything thanks to weapon damage caps.

It's pretty much true though, that any serious THF will have enough triple attack procs that the extra hits from the kris probably won't make up for the lost damage.

Basically you should just test out different offhands and find out what works for yourself. Your gear setup might favor one offhand while another gear setup might favor another, it really depends on what you're going for and what merits you have.

[pii]

Blau/Merc Kris will still be best setup in weapon spam PT if the thief unloads his TP every 30sec with SA+WS and TA+WS

Blau/Sirocco with 5% Triple attack + Homan body can come pretty close though ^^

[DrObvious]

Mercurial Kris will probably be a bit better.

Blau/Sirocco with 5% Triple attack + Homan body + Brutal earring can come pretty close though ^^

[Stilgar]

can come pretty close though ^^

[Not Kuno]

The best thing about Merc Kris is when I sell them to unsuspecting fools. 8)

[Correction]

The best thing about Merc Kris is when I sell them to unsuspecting fools. 8)

Merc. kris in a DRK's hands is rape for 60 cap stuff.

[zymurgy]

Afaik, our Triple Attack job trait can't proc when Kris's 2-3 attack procs. If you have Homam and Lv5 Triple merits, I'd go Blau + Sirocco for more DoT and WS dmg.

Double/Triple attacks never proc with any multi hitting weapons

[Vinen]

Afaik, our Triple Attack job trait can't proc when Kris's 2-3 attack procs. If you have Homam and Lv5 Triple merits, I'd go Blau + Sirocco for more DoT and WS dmg.

Double/Triple attacks never proc with any multi hitting weapons

Except Jailer!... but i'm not sure if you were just ignoring them since their double attack is handled differently.

[Slott]

I have blau dolch, merc kris, and sirocco kukri. My triple attack merits are capped at 5, assassin poulaines, and I have brutal earring. Merc kris makes your tp gain skyrocket in comparison to sirocco kukri. There is absolutely no comparison. The difference in damge between the 2 is negligible.

For example, lets say your sirocco kukri is hitting for 15 on a monster once with a proc of 5 dmg, your merc kris will end up hitting 2-3 times for 7-8 or so while the blau dolch would hit for 20.

And BTW - the best damage for thf IMO is using ta and sa seperate from ws, after trying this method i closed the damage gap on warriors significantly yet still couldnt outparse them (in lufaise)

edit: i tried going sj war, having brutal earring, triples capped, and assassin poulaines main hand blau dolch. My god was the tp gain slow. I went from being able to ws at least once, almost 2 times per fight to tp having tp once every 2-3 fights. It was so pathetic

Also, with merc kris you can pretty much keep up with a samurai in tp that uses the soburo sekuro? (forget the name of their lvl 50 2-3 hit one) so that your blm can manaburst constantly. They can maybe toss in a random ws here and there every few minutes but generally you can ws with them very often.

All of this is based on personal experience, and if you have further questions i'd be glad to answer.

[Eaglestrike]

You couldn't outparse a war in Lufaise? Gimp.

[Slott]

Hah i doubt you could even come as close as I did. Go pt with the best equiped/set up war (well moochi maybe beats him slightly on gear) on your server then come back to me. With a bard war dmg will never be outdone.
He doesnt use axe there, uses joyeuse/ridill (since joy is piercing dmg) and can constantly hit birds for over 100 damage. So before you try to critisize go pt with an uber war, not some average one.

Also werent you the ones saying you could outparse people by far on deco weapons then got your ass handed to you in comparison? Im not talking about some gimp war you pick randomly. Pretty much the only 4 wars I pt with are extremely well geared.