shell hopping, /confused

[rrynn]

noticed something about endgame on my server lately that confuses me, and i wanted to see if its common accross other servers.

simply put: the people with the most toys are the people who change hmn shells as often as my rdm macros change my gear.

people join a shell, stay long enough to get xyz cool thing, and leave...and other shells take them in so they can start over. and not just nabish endgame shells either, the big name ones. if, for example, a rdm is leaving their ls less then a month after getting a dalmy (well, pre salvage gear killing dalmy on rdm)...why would anyone let them into another shell? and if they then left that other shell just b/c they lost a lot on something, why would they ever be let into a third?

maybe i'm just an idiot b/c i'm still in the first endgame shell i joined, and will be for the forseeable future unless they just fall apart, but this is just something that has confused me lately. why does the endgame system we set up (at least on my server) reward people for having a complete and total lack of loyalty?

[jiang]

if they get a dalmatica only after a month something is wrong with your system.

at least, i think so anyway

[NynJa]

yea if someones getting a big ticket item within a month of joining, its more the LS's problem than the players problem.

[Toth]

He didn't say the rdm got a dalmy a month after he joined the shell but rather the RDM is leaving a month after he got the dalmy.

[rrynn]

what toth said, sorry i didnt make that more clear. and that was just an example really, i've seen a lot of people leave linkshells soon after getting big ticket items, for bullshit reasons. and then seen them be accepted into other lses with open arms. just confusing to me rly.

[Asswipe]

It's pretty common on my server. Many people that do this are reprehensible individuals, too. One guy went through several linkshells, each one getting him better stuff while he performs increasingly depraved acts until he finally quartermasters himself a Ridill during a team up. I was fully expecting him to be able to get himself an Earthen Body and Aquarian Body (about the only two non-Dynamis items he didn't have for his jobs) somehow in spite of his reputation as the worst single human being on the server, but he got banned within days of the Ridill incident for unrelated charges of hacking. Honestly, I don't know who the bigger morons are, all the linkshells that took him after he established himself as bad news or the person that passed him alliance leader with Ridill in the treasure pool at the peak of his infamy.

[Toth]

OOOOOOH Isn't that the infamous player who had that whole topic on BG a few months back? Boy was that a sad but entertaining thread.

[Cyrus_Phoenix]

I always feel le sad when people like Navii or Tangia only get banned after recieving legendary gear. Such nice loot could have gone to people who at least had a shred of decency instead of collecting up on a worthless smacktard destined to get the banstick.

[Kimiko]

Yeah, happened to several members of our linkshell (before it's current incarnation). We were a pretty tight group of friends before, least until people started wanting their e-penis stroked through high level play and started ditching for HNM shells. --;

[Carbon]

Hirronimus? Lasitha?

drama +1

[Kanodin]

Several reasons:

1) The member had a beef against the linkshell, concealed his/her animosity, and planned the whole departure prior to receiving a big item. You got pwned.
2) Something developed in the linkshell after the member received the Dalmatica that precipitated the departure. You need to pay attention to morale, especially concerning other linkshells that notice members getting special equipment. There is no reason to assume that the other linkshell played no part in the departure.

Any other explanation would require specific information about your linkshell and/or server politics.

[Asswipe]

Some reading material on Navvii:

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11026
and
http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=272559

Synopsis:

I didn't know of Navvii until after he was level 75 Ranger and Ninja leveling his sixty something Samurai. He co-formed BlackTheory and after getting a crapload of Tu'Lia gear, he left, stealing the first Osode they ever got within days of the first Kirin victory. During this time, he had also gotten access to two Dynamis runs of a linkshell that he was kicked from and, with the help of several friends, proceeded to lot every single item to hit the pool.

After leveling his Red Mage to high sixties or so, he joined Orzz, which, itself, was an asshole linkshell that didn't last. He eventually joined Konayuki for a few days before joining NextBestThing (a.k.a. NERGAL). Throughout all this, he got a terrible reputation for being an asshole to everyone, constant bragging and verbal bullying in every form of communication available, and would lootwhore pretty much everything possible. In spite of the fact that next to nobody could stand him, that he was a huge lootwhore with ambitions only for himself, and the fact that he was utterly terrible at all his jobs (he just simply didn't care to play the game properly because he "knows everything" already and will argue to armageddon that he is perfect in every way), linkshells would still let him go to events and lot on big ticket items.

Eventually, a late night Fafnir team up involving WildSeven, Konayuki, and NextBestThing (Navvii included) drops Ridill, Neptunal Head, Aquarian Feet, and some other stuff. Navvii just keeps saying "give me alliance leader" dozens of times until the alliance leader moronically gives it to him just in time for him to quartermaster the best Fafnir drop pool I had ever seen. He was understandably kicked from NextBestThing and within days, banned from the game entirely. It's unknown what he would have joined after this stunt (at that point, he was in the last linkshell that would ever take him), but I'm sure he would have successfully lootwhored even more stuff.

In the end, with his jobs of Ranger, Ninja, Samurai, Red Mage, Dark Knight, he had full God armor, 4/5 Wyrmal (missing head), Shura Haidate and Kabuto (maybe also Togi), Neptunal Head, Aquarian Hands and Feet (maybe other pieces as well), Ridill, other Rare/Ex stuff, and lots of expensive buyable gear with what he claims to have been 224,865,944 gil. All of this on a moron that can't play any of the jobs properly, was a total asshole to nearly everyone, and who ended up getting banned without even getting to use his Ridill for anything the slightest bit important. Have to love this game.

[Medivac]

i dont see this as being a problem as long as a hnm is sticking to its point system, or maybe there was a possibility that person got in when a hnm switched to a point system, got lots of points got what he wanted, then bounced either way getting a big ticket item basically means you belong to that ls. if you get a ridil ebody or dalm(pre salvage) you better have a damn good reason

[Sho]

FFXI is serious business.

[Koyangi]

yea if someones getting a big ticket item within a month of joining, its more the LS's problem than the players problem.

I've noticed with some shell(s) on my server, a ridill went to a thf at the camp within 2 weeks of his joining because noone else needed that wasnt also present, he then levels war after getting it lol.

[StaplerGuy]

a ridill went to a thf at the camp within 2 weeks of his joining because noone else needed that wasnt also present, he then levels war after getting it lol.

Fuck that, give it to even a mage who's been there a couple months plus if they're willing to level WAR/meet the point (etc.) requirements for it. Seniority should count for SOMETHING.

Or is that just me?

[governor]

getting a big ticket item basically means you belong to that ls

How long does it take after getting a big ticket item to be able to leave an LS on half-decent terms? I say half-decent because no one really leaves on good terms.

[Kaylia]

getting a big ticket item basically means you belong to that ls

How long does it take after getting a big ticket item to be able to leave an LS on half-decent terms? I say half-decent because no one really leaves on good terms.

Never gonna happen unless everyone you know who helped you get this item are gone. >_> That's how drama works

[Bluedemon]

Lordwafik is the only one on Asura I can think of who fits this mold

j/k <3 Waffles.

I'm a firm believer that if a linkshell is being run properly and its members are happy they're going to stay no matter how much they lootwhore the shell

If someone isn't happy, they shouldn't be in the shell period.

I think if the member put in the time to earn that item, then so be it, who cares if the leave after they get it? They did earn it after all. While most might see it as a loss that the linkshell just suffered, I see it as a natural occurence in end game not worth stressing out over. Sure you might lose a Dalm RDM one day, but if your shell is good, you're going to get another Dalm RDM apply the next day (figuratively speaking).

[Dezzimal]

Its certainly a problem on unicorn. Half of my former linkshell's dalmaticas left for another HNMLS.

This is a topic for another discussion, but shell hopping (guild hopping) is the single most frustrating problem with WoW for me. It is 10x the problem in WoW that it is in FFXI.