Any tanks ever try kiting NMs with /BST (NIN/BST, PLD/BST)?

[Zetah]

Something I've been wanting to try for a long time, i.e. NIN/BST or PLD/BST at Kirin or King Behemoth. I don't think the Charm bind is much of a problem since it's like 1-2 seconds, melees smacking it will unbind it right away, and it's probably more hate overtime than just provoking over and over and over. Charm bind hate is pretty large and probably builds up considerably overtime, not to mention lower recast than Provoke. I haven't really got to try it out except a couple years ago when I would bring PLD/BST to claim stuff, and that was always just NQ behe, so never got to really try it out for kiting (was fun watching outside people get hit by Behemoth instead of me though). Anyone have any feedback on this?

[aurik]

I believe charm is also shorter range than provoke, meaning you'll have to get closer (and have a poorer radius for claiming it in the first place)

But really, people still have problems with KB? Just have your blms kite it FFS.

[Lordwafik]

Charm range is tinyyyyyyyyyyy, it's like 2/3 or 1/2 of provoke range.

[Swatt]

but it make harts luv luv

[Delekii]

Charm range is 15 on distance plugin, pretty small range for a kiter's hate tool. And the subbed bind will barely ever land unless BST main is 75.

[Griselda]

No experience as a PLD or NIN tank but I have done BST/NIN backup "tanking" in Dynamis-Xarcabard when the shit has hit the fan and all the tanks were down. Charm does provide some hate but BLMs were able to rip the mobs off me fairly quickly - honestly I found that spamming Charm on the mob, to give the mages an extra second or two to keep running, was more useful than trying to tank.

I know BST doesn't have the same hate tools that a PLD or NIN does but I can't fathom it working all too well. Range too small, hate generated is nice but not enough I feel - Charm recast sucks in comparison to how fast damage can be dealt by melee and mages and with no Provoke to back you up and the added danger of being dangerously close to a mob you are supposed to be kiting... it's a novel idea to try out but not highly practical.

[Swatt]

Charm range is 15 on distance plugin, pretty small range for a kiter's hate tool. And the subbed bind will barely ever land unless BST main is 75.

memory fuzzy, but isn't provoke also 15 range...

[Lordwafik]

Charm range is 15 on distance plugin, pretty small range for a kiter's hate tool. And the subbed bind will barely ever land unless BST main is 75.

memory fuzzy, but isn't provoke also 15 range...

Max casting range (from a normal sized monster) is 20 units, if you want to use that as an example. Ranged attack is 25 units, im sure provoke and Rattack are the same distance.

Charm used to be as long as provoke, but the reason it got nerfed is people were going as 75Job/01 BST and charm claiming due to the fact it's faster. Yay for getting nerfed because of people who sub our job. Ninjas know how we feel

[Imitarate]

Provoke is actually slightly shorter than casting range (I'm not sure if it's 18 or 15, I keep meaning to test it, but I'm always able to Flash before I can voke). I may be delusional and it's actually casting range, but I'm certain it isn't any longer than that.

[solsovly]

I think people over estimate the hate of charm. Its well below provoke. I havn't done any formal testing but I'd be surprised if 4 charms had more hate generation than provoke.

[epigram]

Solsovly is totally right. I can't believe how many bsts and non bsts have this belief that charm gives significant hate. I've used +10 enmity and spammed charm on kirin with taking no damage for over 10 min. When the tank died it went for a mage not me.

The same goes for exp parties etc... the only time I every pull hate after a charm is when it does a bind and I'm the only one in range.

FH also has trivial hate associated with it. I remember reading somewhere that someone said they were pulling hate from a pld with it...

[Swatt]

Provoke is actually slightly shorter than casting range (I'm not sure if it's 18 or 15, I keep meaning to test it, but I'm always able to Flash before I can voke). I may be delusional and it's actually casting range, but I'm certain it isn't any longer than that.

pld/war is lose!

(unless you're xping then you're forgiven)


and yea, flash has a longer range than charm.

[Imitarate]

pld/war is lose!
(unless you're xping then you're forgiven)
and yea, flash has a longer range than charm.

Yes, I'm XPing, I'm only Pld60! Anyways, I think of it in increments. Weapon range, TP-move range (blue spell range), ranged-TP range (gust slash, ranged physical blue spells), Charm/Provoke, Casting, Ranged Weapon, Engage, Target. Then keep going waaay waaaay back and you have enemy spell-completion range...