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  1. #1
    TIME OUT MOTHERFUCKER

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    Shedir Crackows vs Convoker's Pigaches

    God I miss RQT...

    So I'm trying to once again get back into the game and I'm trying to figure out which is better for damage.

    Shedir Crackows has +3% Blood Pact Damage and +3 MAB.
    Convoker's Pigaches has a flat +5% Blood Pact Damage.

    Now I know that for physical BPs, Convoker's has Shedir beat hands down, but what about for magic? I don't know how the math works for BPD combined with MAB. Is 3 BPD + 3 MAB > 5 BPD?

    Should I have posted this in a different thread?

  2. #2
    Relic Shield
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    Pretty sure Hagondes feet are still best for magic BP depending on your augments but I could be wrong. Probably depends on your total MAB. Either way, Convoker's are way better than Shedir for either type.

  3. #3
    TIME OUT MOTHERFUCKER

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    God dammit I forgot about those.

    Okay, thanks.

  4. #4
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    Yeah for magic BP Hagondes with good augment (maybe even without augment) should beat Convoker, but it kinda depends on how much MAB you get overall. I have no clue how to calculate this "threshold" but there should be one past which Convoker get better than Hagondes.

    Also keep in mind that Convoker's are getting bumped to 119 in a few days, likely getting 10% BP damage, at which point they might be better than hagondes.

  5. #5
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    On a side note, stealing this thread for a similar SMN question, about legs.
    I gues AF3+2 for Magic BP, Ngen for physical?
    If you don't have Ngen what should you use? I currently have Marduk+1, maybe that would be the next best option?

  6. #6
    Ridill
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    for all your magical bp questions just do: bpdmg*petmab between 2 sets and see which is higher. Making sure to count all your equipment and native mab on the avatar.

    As far as tp bonus honestly I can't make heads or tails of how the dmg is working other than the models you can find on wikis are horribly off and the dmg increases don't seem consistent thru the full range or even at different dints. As far as physical for legs af3+2 probably better than marduk. Punga's Slops or pet attack skirmish pants might be good though the increase is going to be small.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    As far as physical for legs af3+2 probably better than marduk.
    How would AF3+2 be better than Marduk+1?
    AF3+2 h as skill+6 and Blood Boon+10 (which is nice to save MP, but it doesn't affect the damage, well... if we exclude the bonus set at least)
    Marduk has skill+11.

    As far as I know skill doesn't increase damage but it does increase acc/macc of blood pacts? So in a way less misses > more damages? It might be a crap reason, but it's what I thought of when I asked about marduk+1,
    The AF3+2's TP bonus shouldn't affect physical BPs anyway, since the final damage is unaffected by TP, unlike magical BPs.
    God I want Ngen pants now ><


    And I agree with the TP bonus for magical BPs, it's strange, unconsistant, but it does have a noticeable effect on them.

  8. #8
    Ridill
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    Yeah skill is just acc/macc so would kinda depend on if you need it. Convokers might be more acc too but I don't think that's been tested yet. I could swear I read somewhere tp effected there dmg but as directly... idk more crit rate or something? Idk probably wrong. Of course there is always Valkyrie's Trews with pet att/crit rate

  9. #9
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    Well TP doesn't get consumed by Physical BPs (if not all most of them) so I doubt it has any sort of effect on them.
    Crit rate is useful for stuff like Ramuh's BP (forgot the name) and Garuda's Predator's Claws. Should do zero for everything else that doesn't crit.
    And while this might be wrong, I was told (and as far as I can tell I also experienced this) attack has such a small relevance on physical BPs that you hardly notice the difference.
    Probably would need much bigger amounts for it to matter?

    But yeah. In the end you could say the same about +Skill. There's no escaping it, for physical BPs the only option that's gonna make a relevant difference is stuff with BP damage on it =/

  10. #10
    Ridill
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    Yeah pet pdif is kinda messed so small amounts don't do much. And magic bps have gotten such a huge boost now I think SE has forgotten about physical

  11. #11
    Smells like Onions
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    I read a thread somewhere on here that pointed out that a lot of the old testing was done with pdif unintentionally capped. It was my understanding that that's why it was believed pet attack had no effect. Did I understand correctly, meaning pet attack may indeed have a significant effect when fighting higher level targets? Or is pet attack still assumed to be worthless despite that?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    for all your magical bp questions just do: bpdmg*petmab between 2 sets and see which is higher. Making sure to count all your equipment and native mab on the avatar.

    As far as tp bonus honestly I can't make heads or tails of how the dmg is working other than the models you can find on wikis are horribly off and the dmg increases don't seem consistent thru the full range or even at different dints. As far as physical for legs af3+2 probably better than marduk. Punga's Slops or pet attack skirmish pants might be good though the increase is going to be small.
    What MAB do pets get natively? Can't find it anywhere.

    Edit: And by using that method I'm finding that as long as you have at least an Eminent Pole then you will benefit more from a 5% increase than 50 MAB. So the 5% from Convoker's Pigaches and 11% from Convoker's Doublet should always be more beneficial to magical BP's than Hagondes. The more Avatar MAB you can get in other places enhances those percentages even further. It looks like if you have around 80 or less total Avatar MAB then you will benefit more from Hagondes with 50 Avatar MAB but anything above that and you would benefit more from Convoker's 5% increase. Not heavily tested of course and I'm no mathematician but just trial and error got me to this.

  13. #13
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomad2637 View Post
    What MAB do pets get natively? Can't find it anywhere.

    Edit: And by using that method I'm finding that as long as you have at least an Eminent Pole then you will benefit more from a 5% increase than 50 MAB. So the 5% from Convoker's Pigaches and 11% from Convoker's Doublet should always be more beneficial to magical BP's than Hagondes. The more Avatar MAB you can get in other places enhances those percentages even further. It looks like if you have around 80 or less total Avatar MAB then you will benefit more from Hagondes with 50 Avatar MAB but anything above that and you would benefit more from Convoker's 5% increase. Not heavily tested of course and I'm no mathematician but just trial and error got me to this.
    Not sure about n00buncle but iirc diabolos is a drk and the rest or blms with the corresponding stats/traits. That's partly why avatar melee is no bueno. No idea about other pets.

    As far as your math I think you forgot that when doing mab calculations no +mab is still 1.0 muliplier. Otherwise no mab would yeild 0 dmg. Ditto BP dmg

  14. #14
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    Not saying my method is end all Summoner law but throwing out some alternatives I haven't seen here. (The +40% bp dmg from nirvana may skew my sets vs anyone elses)
    Magic Blood pacts : Legs slot - Preferably Caller's Spats +2 unless your Pet's Tp is higher(and while it varies which magic BP you may be using). For the longest time I've used Ngen at a 118 PetTp threshold or higher as its 5% gain would then beat out caller's spats +2 usually. However I've been trying quite often lately to obtain Hagondes Pants augmented with Pet MAB.. hasn't happened... but with those I can ditch Ngen pretty much for good.
    Feet Slot - If you get a GREAT Pet: MAB augment on your feet... say +20~+25, you are then looking at +45~+50 MAB from one piece of gear. This hands down if multiplied by ESper Earring/Convoker's doublet(+1 or nq) will be substantially better than anything else you can put in this slot. Just from that one slot alone and those two BP+% pieces you'd gain an extra 7 MAB potentially. So in my opinion, Hagondes sabots augmented > all currently no question.
    If you don't have a Nirvana and are say using eminent staff/Balsam staff, Convoker's Doublet (nq or +1) should win for Body slot so don't worry about Hagondes Body augmented for Pet MAb!.
    Hands are tricky, but Hagondes again... should win for any if Pet MAb 20~ is on em.
    Head... Hagondes again same story as hands

    Physical BP's :
    Feet : Convoker's Pigaches should pull out best in slot... Saying this without testing though
    Legs: In light of the fact that avatar accuracy is shitty vs higher lvl stuff or stuff closer to your avatar's level.. I'm started using Convoker's Spats nq/+1 for Physical BP's since the +1's give acc +20.. seemed significant but you could get more on hagondes pants augmented with acc if you would like. Alternatively if you're going for raw dmg , Ngen seraweels probably still win out here haha.
    Hands : auspex/spurrina gages 4 life!
    Body: Convokers
    Head : uhhmm lol I use convoker's horn hahaa, for lack of anything better than i wanna use inventory on.

    Hope this all helped a bit or gave you some different perspective. :3

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Not sure about n00buncle but iirc diabolos is a drk and the rest or blms with the corresponding stats/traits. That's partly why avatar melee is no bueno. No idea about other pets.

    As far as your math I think you forgot that when doing mab calculations no +mab is still 1.0 muliplier. Otherwise no mab would yeild 0 dmg. Ditto BP dmg
    All avatars have MAB as though they were a BLM of their/your level (40 at 91+). In addition, Fenrir gets Attack bonus (like a DRK) and Carbuncle gets Auto-Regen @ 25 as though he were a WHM, though he still has MAB as though he were a BLM. Can't remember if Carby also gets MDB.

  16. #16
    Black Belt
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    Instead of making a new thread, I have some SMN questions.

    Are people putting 1 merit into each T2 BP and then putting the extras into others? How are most people spending those points?

    Subquestion to last 1, if people are 5/5 in 2 specific avatars, which 2 are you capping, and if another avatar that doesnt have a merit BP meritted, what BP do you use on it?

    Also, are people capping Macc and Matk in T1?

    I remember hearing about how awesome Ifrit's lvl70 BP was with lots of MAB and ilvl Sachet, is that still the case? When is it better to use his BP over a pure Magic one?

  17. #17
    TIME OUT MOTHERFUCKER

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    I used to put 5 in Garuda and Shiva, but have since converted over to have 3/5 in those two and 1 in all the others. There are always times where having at least one point is advantageous, and you can make up for not maxing the other two with gear.

    Ifrit is a great avatar who is very much overlooked. I learned to love him when I was doing his staff trials. His 70 attack does fire elemental damage, so it is affected my MAB if I am correct. It tends to be nearly the same as his merit attack.

    As for what to put into the T1, I don't have a solid answer for that. I have them spread out, and for the meanwhile MAB rules the roost in terms of avatar damage, but Pred Claws will always be very useful and it sound like SE is going to be adjusting avatar damage in the next update, so a more balanced approach might end up being the best after all.

  18. #18
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    Flaming Crush shines on low level monsters and starts doing poor ("normal" I should say) damage on T and above.

  19. #19
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    Does Magic Damage on any equipped weapon effect Elemental WS dmg?

    Does the level 3 Aftermath on Nirvana effect pets Physical BPs (and not magic)?


    What is the increase in stats for the Avatar with 119 Nirvana and with the 115 and 119 Sachet, since the referenced info in the wiki only did it from the perspective of the 113 ammo, especially because avatar stats increase non-linearly between certain level ranges?


    Has it been confirmed now that we currently can cap BP recast time to -18 with 115(sachet) and -20 with 119(sachet) for total reduction?

  20. #20
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koyangi View Post
    Does Magic Damage on any equipped weapon effect Elemental WS dmg?

    Does the level 3 Aftermath on Nirvana effect pets Physical BPs (and not magic)?


    What is the increase in stats for the Avatar with 119 Nirvana and with the 115 and 119 Sachet, since the referenced info in the wiki only did it from the perspective of the 113 ammo, especially because avatar stats increase non-linearly between certain level ranges?


    Has it been confirmed now that we currently can cap BP recast time to -18 with 115(sachet) and -20 with 119(sachet) for total reduction?
    Yes but it's added on after ftp making it do alot less than based dmg would do on physical.

    Don't know of any magical ability that OAT works on so probably.

    The stats for various ilvls are in the mathy parts section of the forums.

    Yes

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