UC System Protests

[thestalkmore]

System wide protests have been going on across the UC system this week to protest a 32% hike in student fees. Not sure how I feel about the protests, but they certainly have caused an impressive uproar. 14 arrested at UCLA and today I've been watching some pretty epic police attempts to disperse protesters at Wheeler Hall at Berkeley. Fire alarms have been pulled across the campus and pandemonium is taking over. It's an impressive sight.

[Morgoth_Diabolos]

Meh. I attend UC Irvine (paying and borrowing my way through), and the protesters really don't have a clue. Don't get me wrong, its gonna suck paying a third more to go to a public school, but the solutions suggested by my peers don't make a lot of sense. On this campus at least, the student protesters teamed up with the custodial staff to protest for full government benefits to be given to the janitors. How they justify spending more money on benefits while lowering tuition is crazy to me. Even worse, a third of the increase goes directly to financial aid, which is good for those that receive it, but sucks for me.

The UC President, Yudoff, is talking about heading to Washington to ask Obama for a bailout. Even though the UC is not a federal program, I guess giving money to education is better than to banks.

Still pretty awesome to see some protesters with balls. Our campus would never get that crazy over it.

[Teorem]

On one hand, everyone knows the California economy has gone to crap. If the UC system is getting its regular state support funds cut back, where do students expect that deficit is going to be made up? Tuition for non-resident students was already increased, staff are being furloughed amounting to no pay for ~2-4 weeks a year, and undoubtedly cuts have already been made to research and curricula to save extra money. It makes sense that you have to raise resident tuition, which is probably the UC's most important revenue source other than state subsidies.

On the other hand, according to a old coworker of mine who currently works at ucla, the Regents seem to really like their self-pay increases and extra stipends for retaining their administrative assistants, moving between mansions, and performance bonuses for basically being able to breathe on a regular basis. If these numbers from the AFL-CIO report are true, that's a lot of fat that can be cut out from the top.

I read a few quotes from students that were somewhere along the lines of "if I wanted to pay private university tuition, I would have gone to USC/Stanford/wherever," and I can't help but laugh.

UC's tuition/fees for a YEAR: $10302 (including this increase and the next one)
Our (USC) tuition for a YEAR: $38570
Stanford's tuition for a YEAR: $37380

Sorry, but no. Even with this change, the UC system is still a great deal for residents (nonresidents were screwed to begin with, but isn't that the way all state university systems work?) and you're not paying anything remotely close to private university tuition rates.

One thing that really stands out though is that higher education costs are skyrocketing across the board. Increases of 5-6% per year are really adding up and there's real tension between universities with "suffering" endowments who are already making cutbacks and their students who are similarly strapped for their own cash and limited financial aid options.

[510Meeze]

Easy solution to CA, TAX.

[Solefald]

not so easy with prop 13 and our shit districting

edit: and it's not really a good deal considering it was nearly free 30 years ago, 1/5 the cost 10 years ago, and is still free or nearly-free in many other industrialized countries.

[Morgoth_Diabolos]

Also, they've already tried taxing. Sales tax in Los Angeles is almost 10%. We can't raise taxes on our insanely inflated property values (thank you prop 13, I'd like to own a home someday), and we're in the top 10 highest state's tax burdens. We've tried taxing, its not enough.

[6souls]

Easy solution to CA, TAX.

You're doing it wrong, the easy solution is FEE'S. Haven't you learned anything from Tim Pawlenty?

[finitek]

The fee hikes are painful and ultimately they will not solve the problems that the UC and CSU system are facing. Its crap, I need to pay more because I can afford to? I chose the state system to avoid paying inflated prices for what amounts to the same education as private schools (which I have also attended and I am still paying for...)

Yup I pay 10.25% sales tax in the area I live in for all the good it does me...

Not to stir up any shit over Prop 13, but only a small percentage of homes fall under the rules of the proposition. Ultimately many of the elderly and lower income residents that do own their homes in CA are able to own them as a result of the proposition.
Explain to me how its fair to make an 87-year old widow pay 10k a year in property taxes (when she lives on a fixed income) just because her husband died and they happened to live in Berkeley or Pasadena or where ever.
Prop 13 is not the sole cause of the huge deficit on CA one only need to look to the bloated and inefficient prison system, a collapsing production base (Closing Numii plant in San Jose anyone?) and a failure of the state legislature to level a reasonable plan that cuts programs that are useless. Its a lot to digest, but Prop 13 is one small factor many of the people benefiting from Prop 13 will die off in the next 5-15 years and the proposition will be meaningless anyhow.

its all going to hell, oh well.

[archibaldcrane]

Explain to me how its fair to make an 87-year old widow pay 10k a year in property taxes (when she lives on a fixed income) just because her husband died and they happened to live in Berkeley or Pasadena or where ever.

It's fair to make someone pay increased taxes if the neighborhood they live in is really nice.

If they want to pay less taxes they should move somewhere cheaper.

I don't think you fully understand the ramifications of Prop 13, it's not just affecting old people - commercial property is also equally covered. Currently, you pay less in taxes per square foot owning something like the historic, awesomely located Capitol Records building on Sunset than you would buying a modest $350,000 home in SoCal.

Why does the owner of the Capitol Records building need protection from paying property taxes based on the actual value of his building?

And the great thing is "oh, it'll adjust when that building is sold" - but it won't. All you have to do is "own" your commercial property in a shell company and just sell the shell - since the building is still owned by the same company (even if that company changes hands) it doesn't get re-evaluated.

The California property tax system is completely fucked and commercial property is playing the system like a fiddle.

[finitek]

It's fair to make someone pay increased taxes if the neighborhood they live in is really nice.

And the great thing is "oh, it'll adjust when that building is sold" - but it won't. All you have to do is "own" your commercial property in a shell company and just sell the shell - since the building is still owned by the same company (even if that company changes hands) it doesn't get re-evaluated.

The California property tax system is completely fucked and commercial property is playing the system like a fiddle.

That's a loophole. The fact the crooked businessmen and corporations are taking advantage of the law is a shame.
Define "really nice".
I live in one of the WORST areas in the Bay Area and I own my own home and pay a crapload of taxes, both local, state, and federal. Not only that I live within 5 miles of not one but two refineries. My non smoking neighbor has contracted lung cancer living this area his whole life. Would you call that "really nice"? My property taxes are more than 6 months of payments on my mortgage. Is it fair? Ultimately it doesn't matter cause the whole system is fucked...

P.S. Just amend Prop 13 to only relate to residential property and its fixed. I never said it was perfect, but its nice to know that some people regular are actually using the law for what it was intended, not getting screwed by ever rising property values in a state where everything is overvalued to begin with.

[archibaldcrane]

You are the one who said Berkeley or Pasadena. Those are really nice places to live.

Regarding your home, how far under your current property value is your 'taxable' assessment?

[510Meeze]

That's a loophole. The fact the crooked businessmen and corporations are taking advantage of the law is a shame.
Define "really nice".
I live in one of the WORST areas in the Bay Area and I own my own home and pay a crapload of taxes, both local, state, and federal. Not only that I live within 5 miles of not one but two refineries. My non smoking neighbor has contracted lung cancer living this area his whole life. Would you call that "really nice"? My property taxes are more than 6 months of payments on my mortgage. Is it fair? Ultimately it doesn't matter cause the whole system is fucked...

P.S. Just amend Prop 13 to only relate to residential property and its fixed. I never said it was perfect, but its nice to know that some people regular are actually using the law for what it was intended, not getting screwed by ever rising property values in a state where everything is overvalued to begin with.

You can buy a house in Richmond for $50k, now thats in a shitty as neighborhood lol.

[finitek]

You are the one who said Berkeley or Pasadena. Those are really nice places to live.

Regarding your home, how far under your current property value is your 'taxable' assessment?

Well, when my property was originally assessed 7 years ago, the house and the lot were appraised at 480k, the reality is the house and property combined are probably worth 320k max. I am the process of having the property reassessed, but the county is dragging its feet. I don't benefit from prop 13 at all. however my mother does, and she is single and works her ass off to pay her property taxes of roughly 4k a year, Hell I wish my property taxes were only 4k, but they are more like 8k+ and ever rising.
The state/county should be paying me to live in this hell hole not raising the taxes on me. on the flipside, if my mother was not protected by prop 13 she would need to sell her home and move out of the state just to survive, and that is pretty much BS.

I dont see a solution to the problem really.

[finitek]

You can buy a house in Richmond for $50k, now thats in a shitty as neighborhood lol.

Yes, a house that should be demolished. The structure is worth less than the land its on.

[Solefald]

prop 13 also introduced a supermajority requirement for raising any state tax, that's what's more relevant to the budget meltdown we're having. combine that with the way our districts are drawn, and the state republican party moving far to the right in the past couple decades, means any attempt by democrats to balance the budget is met with complete and utter stonewalling by republicans over taxes.

i agree with you on this, though

http://i48.tinypic.com/2vkdjbr.jpg
prison spending and uc tuition, adjusted for inflation

[Jakson]

My state is going to see a measure that would keep the cost of tuition from rising here, but I can't justify paying a few dollars more per credit than having the money taken out of public schools or safety. It sucks, but it's not like I really want to read about teachers being laid off because I don't want to pay a few more dollars per credit.

[Lordshin]

Still pretty awesome to see some protesters with balls. Our campus would never get that crazy over it.

yeah i go to UC Irvine as well... People can be pretty dumb sometimes. I kinda wish things would get crazy here just liven things up a bit haha.

But, i can see that the UC system needs money, i mean we have an unfurnished building and one that's half built because we don't have enough money lol...

A 32% increase is a lot for most people. Tuition used to be a little under $7000 for UC Irvine but now it's up to about $9000 a year, for residents, so we're looking at a $3000 increase which is a LOT so i can see why people are protesting and whatnot. I mean its still nothing compared to Stanford or USC, but people choose the UC system because its affordable education.

I still think hijacking building and pulling alarms won't lower our fees at all, in fact i think it might actually raise them in a way...

I'm just glad the students here are not taking this too far... its pretty immature IMO.. lol

also... I'm glad I'm graduating this year haha....

[Sepukku]

Here's the issue as I see it:

The elected state government is not doing its job. Regardless of whether or not the protestors are morons for giving custodians benefits (which I think isn't totally bad - I mean, I think as many jobs as possible should carry benefits, especially medical) yet wanting lower tuition, the state government has failed in government. The states financial situation is miserable at best, and for that, they have every reason to protest as much as they want, provided they don't destroy things that aren't theres / hurt anyone (except the California state government representatives).

[Aurara]

god dammit, this means im gonna have to get even more money for UC Davis...son of a bitch.

[Cantih]

It's fair to make someone pay increased taxes if the neighborhood they live in is really nice.

If they want to pay less taxes they should move somewhere cheaper.

Picking up and moving your life is NOT as easy as you would like to believe, and it only gets harder as you get older.

And you need to remember, things can CHANGE over the course of decades. There was this story nearly a decade ago of this little old widow who worked to change her neighborhood from a slum to something better, led the organization of the community, got out the drug dealers and meth cookers. The reward for her work, was that property values rose and she got taxed out of her home. No good deed goes unpunished, eh?


I agree with you about the business loophole though, you should look at the numbers for what Disneyland has to pay for it's property. It's stayed largely static over the years, yet two decades ago the price per head for residents was $20, now it's $100. (I know there are other factors, but really, what percentage of that price is going just to line executive pockets, I bet you it's more than before, or when the place was built)