Item Search
     
BG-Wiki Search
Closed Thread
Page 1 of 52 1 2 3 11 51 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 1024
  1. #1
    Ashira
    Guest

    Enmity testing - Still Going!

    So Kaeko has dragged me along to find out all these weird things about Enmity, and some of our results have been very interesting. If not really that interesting, then I'm sure you will at least be amused to read that I seriously cast Cure on myself 320 times in a row. (I really should screenshot more of our conversations... shots of Kae saying things like "I really think you'll only need to cast it 60 times..." are pretty priceless. )

    If I am not mistaken, there's at least one more post coming, as I don't see the real quantifiable numbers we've found in his current posts, or some of our findings from yesterday (Cure V hate, for instance = very interesting... and an HP-cured curve!).

    I know many many people do read his blog, so I may just be a little redundant, but I also know since he doesn't update it terribly often or post here as often as I do, it could get missed, and it could be a really interesting discussion thread.. plus I know he'd love some assistance in finding further numbers (we as a team, for instance, can't test some abilities because we don't have the jobs opened, etc).

    Anyway, good reads!

    http://kanican.livejournal.com/

    Most recent post is Part II, so be sure to read Part I, even though some of the tests in Part II discount original hypotheses.

    EDIT: PART III IS UP

  2. #2

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    This is awesome.

  3. #3
    The Once and Future Wamoura
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    18,372
    BG Level
    9
    FFXIV Character
    Rocl Montaigne
    FFXIV Server
    Excalibur
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut
    WoW Realm
    Quel'Thalas

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suiram
    This is awesome.
    This + Blind Testing = Super Duper Awesome

  4. #4

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Summary of all tests please...... I do not have the patience to read all tests, I will believe what you say!

  5. #5
    E. Body
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,166
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    If you don't want to read, it says at the bottom of each test in red letters the conclusion.

  6. #6
    Ashira
    Guest

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starr
    Summary of all tests please...... I do not have the patience to read all tests, I will believe what you say!

    LOL, this is dangerous..............

  7. #7

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starr
    Summary of all tests please...... I do not have the patience to read all tests, I will believe what you say!
    There are summaries in the LJ entries themselves, not hidden behind cut if you just go to the link. I have a few questions,

    When is part III coming? What, in part III, was/will be tested, and what are the initial findings in it? Things that would be interesting to see tested: When you lose hate from taking damage, is it taken from the decaying section, the undecaying section, or proportionate from both? Does an equal amount of +enmity and -enmity armor or merits cancel one another out (for instance, with a couple merits one way or the other could someone wear the appropriate levels in gear to achieve the same enmity as someone who is naked with no merits for the purpose of future testing)? Is +/- enmity a static or percentage change to the amount of enmity generated, and does it cap? Other initial and post-decay hate units for various spells and abilities, the hate generated from damaging a target expressed in terms of the base units, and exact value of the hate cap and behavior at that cap.

  8. #8

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Best hate in the game! (No, seriously.)

  9. #9
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,227
    BG Level
    9
    FFXI Server
    Asura

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    3) Distance relative to the mob at which an ability or spell is used does not affect enmity gained.
    I've found this to be false. Often times I will run away to Convert (usually about 30 distance) and get no hate, whereas if I do it at 20, I'll get a ton of hate. However, if I do it at 10, I will get the same hate as doing it at 20, so it is partially true.

  10. #10

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khamsin
    3) Distance relative to the mob at which an ability or spell is used does not affect enmity gained.
    I've found this to be false. Often times I will run away to Convert (usually about 30 distance) and get no hate, whereas if I do it at 20, I'll get a ton of hate. However, if I do it at 10, I will get the same hate as doing it at 20, so it is partially true.
    Over 30 is completely outside of hate range and won't affect your enmity at all, as any BST will tell you.

    Awesome tests, looking forward to the next installment. You could try BLU spells too, particularly Exuviation, Jettatura, Temporal Shift, Blank Gaze, Geist Wall.. my experience on holding KV with BLU would tell me that Exuv seems unfortunately to be decaying hate, but you never know.. a self cast non-decaying hate spell would be fucking awesome.

  11. #11

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Interesting read. Good job on these experiments.

  12. #12
    Relic Shield
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,704
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Asura

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    I caught this yesterday while browsing on Dreams on Vana'Diel general forum.

    Didn't have to read it throughly; but at least I got the most important part : 2 type of enmity exist: decaying and persistent

    For now, identifying which action is a non-decaying hate is the way to go :3

  13. #13

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Evading or taking 0 damage from an attack causes no enmity loss.

    Evading an attack through use of Utsusemi Shadow Loss causes an enmity loss.

    The distance at which an ability or spell is used relative to the mob does not affect the hate gained.

    The act of pulling grants an extra enmity bonus to the puller.

    All actions in this game produce at least 1 unit of non-naturally decaying hate (the Base Unit).

    Dispel produces 320 base units of non-decaying hate.

    A hard cap on hate does exist - it ranges from 9920-10240 base units of non-decaying hate.


    Did I miss any points?

  14. #14
    Relic Shield
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,524
    BG Level
    6
    FFXIV Character
    Ferien Terzo
    FFXIV Server
    Excalibur

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Very interesting. Is part 3 coming soon? I'd be very interested to see the rest of this. Things like the values of Flash and Stun, and how much hate you get from the cures, and hell, if there is indeed a difference between a Cure3 or a Cure4 for the same amount of HP.

    Anxiously awaiting part 3.

  15. #15
    Sea Torques
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    624
    BG Level
    5
    FFXI Server
    Shiva
    WoW Realm
    Kilrogg

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Corect me if I'm wrong, but if Ashira cast cure for 0 320 times and blind 1 time wouldn't dispel have 319 Units of ND hate? that is assuming blind is 1 unit of ND hate which I'm not exactly sure where this last part was proved...

  16. #16
    New Spam Forum
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    188
    BG Level
    3
    FFXI Server
    Bismarck

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Great job testing and very interesting results. I wish stun and voke hate were quantified, too, but that dispel has such a large non-decaying hate factor is very useful to know.

  17. #17
    St. Fiat
    THE TIME FOR QUESTIONS
    HAS PASSED

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    3,808
    BG Level
    7

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Okuza
    Great job testing and very interesting results. I wish stun and voke hate were quantified, too, but that dispel has such a large non-decaying hate factor is very useful to know.
    Think the purpose of the testing being so detailed is to that people can go reproduce the conditions and test other things themselves.

  18. #18
    Banned.
    Account locked at request of user.

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    9,843
    BG Level
    8

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Quote Originally Posted by nekoshoonen
    Corect me if I'm wrong, but if Ashira cast cure for 0 320 times and blind 1 time wouldn't dispel have 319 Units of ND hate? that is assuming blind is 1 unit of ND hate which I'm not exactly sure where this last part was proved...
    All actions have at least 1 constant unit of hate associated with them, so if it took 321 actions to overtake Dispel's constant hate, then 320 would equal it.

    Which brings up something that would probably be answered if I had the attention span to read this entire thing: does the first action performed on a mob get a hate bonus? What about aggro?

  19. #19
    Banned.

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    15,022
    BG Level
    9

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Very nice and I thank you for your effort. The units for hate will need a name though.

  20. #20
    Relic Shield
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,869
    BG Level
    6

    Re: Enmity testing, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Thus far, the testing is confirming what everyone who has tanked with the use of both Provoke and hate-generating spells already had determined. I wouldn't expect any revolutions in the way we think about Stun and Provoke. I'm not saying that quantifying it is useless, but tanking techniques for NIN and PLD have been honed within the community over millions of HNMs combined. It's the RDM/NIN, NIN/RDM, etc., tanks that stand to gain from this IMO.

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 52 1 2 3 11 51 ... LastLast