An observation about training manuals

[bruiser]

Note that I do not have a training manual for any crafts yet, but these observations are about the differences between synths that suggest manuals vs synths that don't. Not about the difference between manual / no manual on a synth that suggests it.


I've always felt like Nails / fish hooks were really fucking hard to synth for some reason, even when I'm over their level. Yesterday I noticed that it's not necessarily because my Standard attempts succeed less often, but because when they fail I'm losing 25-30 durability almost every single time. Take the following example:

Was skilling up yesterday as a 19BSM. Started out with Iron Fish Hooks since it didn't use Wind Shards, seemed like a win.

Fail Rate = ~50%
EXP on Success = ~850
Skill on Success = 170-210

The fail rate obviously does not match the EXP on Success. I switched to Iron Needles, and the resulst were more like this:

Fail Rate = ~25%
EXP on Success = ~1300
Skill on Success = 280-330

Something is clearly off here. I've definitely noticed that the amount of durability loss you take on an unsuccessful attempt decreases the closer you get to an object's level. So if you try to synth an item like 10 levels away you're going to take massive durability loss on each failed attempt, and that durability loss will gradually decrease the closer you get to level.

The training manual seems to do the same thing. When I'd fail my Standard attempts on Fish Hooks (which are lower level than Needles), I'd lose 25+ durability a lot of times. On Needles, durability loss / failed attempt was more like 10-15.

This isn't like a groundbreaking discovery or anything, but I'm wondering if the same applies for other synths with training manuals that people have observed.

[qpoiuwer]

Generally you should be able to do synths 6-8 levels above you if they require no trainings. 2-5 levels above you if they require 1 training. If a synth requires 2 trainings, you'll probably be lucky to complete it even if it's the synth is the same level as your current rank. Almost all hooks I've seen require 2 trainings, which is why they're so much harder, even though in-game it only lists 1. Seems like a bug or UI constraint that they can't list two requirements.

[bruiser]

Just out of curiosity, how do you know they require 2 trainings if the UI only lists one? That would certainly explain why it's so hard.

[qpoiuwer]

Lodestone. But you can generally tell. Hooks are a type of nail, so all metal hooks require nailcasting. All bone things require bonecarving, so all bone hooks require bonecarving. All fishing-related tools require tacklecraft, so all hooks require tacklecraft.

[Dakin]

You are probably right. After picking up tanning training, I only lose ~15 on failures instead of 25 plus or minus a few. It doesn't seem to make the synth any easier in regards to standard success, but definitely makes it easier in terms of cutting down durability loss.

[miokomioko]

Someone compare the rate of HQ of a low-rank recipe with Quality 300~500 before and after having the appropriate training manual. I have a feeling that not possessing the manual also kills your HQ chances by a lot. I'm extremely far from wasting 6000 marks on Fishcleaning.

[Ravidrath]

Just curious, but have you tried using a file?

Whenever I did fish hook crafting leves, I felt that my success rate was much better with a file. This was when I was still using Rank 1 tools, however.