Eurogamer Interview With FFXIV Producers (11/15/2010)

[ZarakiKujata]

WoW also was first incarnated as some 3-D Action Adventure Warcraft game ala Starcraft Ghost before they just reused the engine for WoW.

[Spider-Dan]

From the PC Gamer interview:

PC Gamer: Would you have liked it if the release date was maybe a couple of months later, to smooth out the last kinks?

Hiromichi Tanaka: It is very difficult to make the decision. If we had more time, we probably would have had to fix more bugs, and so it was very difficult to judge which time to release the game, because we want people to enjoy it as soon as possible. That’s why we made the decision to release it now.

...the hell kind of answer is that? Your game has an infinite number of high-priority bugs, so you might as well ship today because it's impossible to fix them all?

Not to oversimplify, but it seems rather obvious that if they had delayed release until "mid December", the game would be at least as fixed as the the version they are supposed to be delivering in "mid December."

[miokomioko]

I'm pretty sure that's PR-talk for "the executives forced us to release it unfinished" and the XIV team gets to take the heat so the shareholders don't think the people towards the top of SE are as incompetent as they are.

[Spider-Dan]

Um, isn't Tanaka part of "the executives"? He's the Senior VP of Software Development at a software company.

That's still one of the worst answers ever.

[bruiser]

From the PC Gamer interview:


...the hell kind of answer is that? Your game has an infinite number of high-priority bugs, so you might as well ship today because it's impossible to fix them all?

Uhh.. Makes sense to me. I don't see what's confusing about it. Software is never bug free. You have to release sometime. Ergo...

Not to oversimplify, but it seems rather obvious that if they had delayed release until "mid December", the game would be at least as fixed as the the version they are supposed to be delivering in "mid December."

Are you sure? Are you sure that all of the features they're now adding to the game for the Novemeber/December release were EVER planned in the first place? I personally think that it's the exact opposite. A lot of things they are adding are specifically because of how bad the feedback has been, and they wouldn't have been added at all without such a strong negative reaction.

[Agito]

It's obvious that the released version of ffxiv was something thrown together in a hurry. It's a theory that if there wasn't such a negative reaction to the release then player feedback wouldn't have even been taken into consideration but i honestly think that they were listening to our feedback all along because they didn't throw all that feedback in the trash, they kept it somewhere safe. The negative reaction did throw the whole company into overdrive though to fix everything and they learned to be a little more communicative. I'm not going to lie, i lost confidence in square enix when i seen the horrible release of this game but they stepped up to the plate, took responsibility and will be fixing their mistake in a timely manner so now, i have even more confidence and respect for the developers/company.

[miokomioko]

There's a lot of things that sound great in concept. However, everything conceptual is always based on an assumption of how people will use it. It's difficult to step outside yourself while designing and see how how someone else would approach it without any prior understanding. This is the whole purpose of "Usability Tests" which, for video games, is another word for "beta test." The downside being that the player-base ends up heavily skewed towards the "hardcore." Unfortunately, it finished alpha and entered the beta phase too soon, resulting in the beta phase being wasted on fixing critical bugs without getting a chance to react to how people were (or weren't) using the systems implemented. This was pretty much summed up in that other interview response of "we were busy working on bugs." So, now we're in the true beta until December, except we get to keep our characters and you'll be able to tell your grandchildren of the horrors you endured "back in the day."

I feel a lot of the changes we're seeing were planned, but got pushed down the priority list. The act of developing anything requires a ton of Plan-Bs and Plan-Cs if shit doesn't pan out the way you hoped... and it rarely does. We're playing a basic structure still. There's plenty of room for improvement and they are giving people every reason to trust that they aren't as ignorant as they used to be.

[qpoiuwer]

Um, isn't Tanaka part of "the executives"? He's the Senior VP of Software Development at a software company.

That's still one of the worst answers ever.

A lot of the time marketing will go demo a product and be like "it can do x, y, and z! you can buy it next week" and they'll go back and tell the engineers they need it finished by next week. Then the engineers are like "well our product only does a, b, and c, and it's not ready for at least 2 months", and the moral of the story is the engineers get screwed and work overtime.

[Spider-Dan]

Uhh.. Makes sense to me. I don't see what's confusing about it. Software is never bug free. You have to release sometime. Ergo...

His explanation for why the pile of player suggestions (from beta) went untouched was that they were busy fixing bugs before release. The question posed was whether the game would have benefited from a delayed release, so that non-bug-related changes could be implemented (e.g. the same non-bug-related changes that they plan to implement in Nov. and Dec.).

Tanaka saying that delaying release wouldn't have mattered because they "would have still been fixing bugs anyway" begs the question: what are they doing right now? If they have time to work on implementing all the changes they are promising, why wouldn't they have time to implement them in a world where this game hasn't been released yet? His answer implies that they don't have time to do anything but fix bugs now, which is obviously at odds with the promised non-bug-related changes that are supposed to arrive over the next two months.

I say it's a horrible answer because it reveals one of two things: either a) the bug excuse is a cover story, meant to hide something else or b) there is a glaring lack of competence when it comes to prioritization. If someone in charge looked at the current build of the game and thought that the single most valuable use of their programmers' resources is fixing bugs, and not fixing all the massive design problems*, they need to be fired.

*I'm not trying to start another flame war about the design of this game, so I'll clarify: when you see the numerous negative reviews of this game by the videogame media, and note the aspects of it that the reviewer criticized (e.g. the economy), unless it's something that is not working correctly due to a glitch, that's what I categorize as a "design problem."

[Hyan]

In the end I think the game will benefit more from the early release. Had they delayed it until Xmas, I very much doubt they would be doing as much as they are now to address every concern and put all of their resources into it. Who knows whether the decisions to (for example) create an entirely new UI were decided during the Beta or after Release.. but I would guess the latter, for obvious reasons.

We just wouldn't have gotten the message through if it wasn't for the exodus of players and the bad PR. Now the same would have happened during Xmas, maybe not as badly but I doubt the game would get more than 6.5~ from reviews in the best case even after these two updates.

[Elrina]

Tanaka saying that delaying release wouldn't have mattered because they "would have still been fixing bugs anyway" begs the question: what are they doing right now? If they have time to work on implementing all the changes they are promising, why wouldn't they have time to implement them in a world where this game hasn't been released yet? His answer implies that they don't have time to do anything but fix bugs now, which is obviously at odds with the promised non-bug-related changes that are supposed to arrive over the next two months.

I say it's a horrible answer because it reveals one of two things: either a) the bug excuse is a cover story, meant to hide something else or b) there is a glaring lack of competence when it comes to prioritization. If someone in charge looked at the current build of the game and thought that the single most valuable use of their programmers' resources is fixing bugs, and not fixing all the massive design problems*, they need to be fired.

I agree with this, and horribly dislike a lot of what Tanaka had to say because he seems quite displeased that they're being forced to make some of these changes (even though I agree with Mioko in that they likely had several of them planned as possible contingencies anyway, although not all I think). It almost seems like he's saying that they're making changes and doing what they are right now because of the sheer amount of negative feedback, and he's playing along because he must, but this won't last forever and it will be going back to the same ol' song and dance once (if) things are back under control.

However...

In the end I think the game will benefit more from the early release. Had they delayed it until Xmas, I very much doubt they would be doing as much as they are now to address every concern and put all of their resources into it. Who knows whether the decisions to (for example) create an entirely new UI were decided during the Beta or after Release.. but I would guess the latter, for obvious reasons.

We just wouldn't have gotten the message through if it wasn't for the exodus of players and the bad PR. Now the same would have happened during Xmas, maybe not as badly but I doubt the game would get more than 6.5~ from reviews in the best case even after these two updates.

I agree with this as well. With the free trial being extended as it has, we're basically getting the playtime free anyway, even if it is the equivalent of a post-release beta. This way, they've been hit with all of this negative feedback at the release, and it will hopefully make it much harder to return to the same attitude they had before this massive backlash. Which will, in the end, lead towards a better game for everyone who sticks with XIV.

[Hyan]

I agree with this, and horribly dislike a lot of what Tanaka had to say because he seems quite displeased that they're being forced to make some of these changes (even though I agree with Mioko in that they likely had several of them planned as possible contingencies anyway, although not all I think). It almost seems like he's saying that they're making changes and doing what they are right now because of the sheer amount of negative feedback, and he's playing along because he must, but this won't last forever and it will be going back to the same ol' song and dance once (if) things are back under control.

When things are under control, they no longer have the pressure to throw all that money to the game. If the game turns around, the flow of money will as well.

That doesn't mean we'll get some XIV WoTG/Add-on type updates, but the changes won't be as drastic as they are now. I doubt the game will ever see updates of this caliber ever again after all this is over, if it is successful and especially if it's not.

[Elrina]

Of course not, I wouldn't expect that. I meant more the type of updates, that respond directly to (the majority of) feedback and implement changes that players are concerned about. Rather than ignoring problems and imbalances for years like in XI, while they prioritize what they're interested in working on, before going back to fix the things players have had issues with. As well as the amount of transparency they're giving us now, that doesn't cost a lot and even though all we've gotten so far are words, it's somewhat comforting knowing that they're listening and what will be getting added/adjusted/fixed.

It's more that I don't want to see it returning to the same policies as in XI, regarding us with silence and only adjusting things they feel aren't working well, when they feel like addressing them, knowing that they will maintain a general amount of subscriptions anyway. With all of this backlash, people will be more wary and willing to jump ship if they start to update the game negatively and leaving things broken and/or imbalanced for extended periods of time so that they can add updates with content nobody cares about.

[Hyan]

I meant more the type of updates, that respond directly to (the majority of) feedback and implement changes that players are concerned about.

Yes, I would assume this will end one day. Of course that depends on just how much they are going to break in this game as opposed to XI, but priorization will happen. If they don't have money to respond to the majority of feedback while implementing new content, they won't. They'll just pick whatever they think is the most urgent and makes the largest difference for as little resources used as possible. Sometimes this doesn't go hand-in-hand with the playerbase, sometimes it does.

What we will have to hope is that there won't be as many things needing fixing once all of this is over, so they can fix most of them with the resources they have.

Of course the updates will probably be rather large for the first 5 years, and it won't be wasted on their rotz/cop attitude which consisted of doing whatever the fuck they wanted, all the time. They can't just do that anymore, and they know it. That alone will make this game's first 5 years different than they were in XI.

[Elrina]

Of course the updates will probably be rather large for the first 5 years, and it won't be wasted on their rotz/cop attitude which consisted of doing whatever the fuck they wanted, all the time. They can't just do that anymore, and they know it. That alone will make this game's first 5 years different than they were in XI.

That's pretty much what I mean. It would still be nice if Tanaka would gtfo already regardless.

[Hyan]

Every old fart in the company, really.

[Lucavi]

In the end I think the game will benefit more from the early release. Had they delayed it until Xmas, I very much doubt they would be doing as much as they are now to address every concern and put all of their resources into it. Who knows whether the decisions to (for example) create an entirely new UI were decided during the Beta or after Release.. but I would guess the latter, for obvious reasons.

We just wouldn't have gotten the message through if it wasn't for the exodus of players and the bad PR. Now the same would have happened during Xmas, maybe not as badly but I doubt the game would get more than 6.5~ from reviews in the best case even after these two updates.

Even if this is the case, you'd certainly hope that this isn't the new gold standard on how to release a MMO, because if SE manages to pull their ass out of the fire and make some kind of epic turnaround, they'd be the first to do so. Even if this does work, this should -not- be how you launch your new MMO.

Everyone has talked about how important it is to launch a clean game out of the get-go, and here comes SE with a horribly buggy, sloppy, outright terrible game at retail. Then they start working hard to turn it around. Its too early to tell if its going to succeed, but my feeling is that if they continue to make rapid improvements and retain the "open-house" mentality with their discussions, then they'll turn this ship in the right direction.

What I don't want to see, however, is some new upstart company copying this method, thinking that its easier to push a pile of shit out the door and fix it later than to release something that's actually playable and fun, while continuously playing. I don't want to hear "XIV did it!" as some new meme for eventual success after a terrible start.

[Damane]

In the end I think the game will benefit more from the early release. Had they delayed it until Xmas, I very much doubt they would be doing as much as they are now to address every concern and put all of their resources into it. Who knows whether the decisions to (for example) create an entirely new UI were decided during the Beta or after Release.. but I would guess the latter, for obvious reasons.

We just wouldn't have gotten the message through if it wasn't for the exodus of players and the bad PR. Now the same would have happened during Xmas, maybe not as badly but I doubt the game would get more than 6.5~ from reviews in the best case even after these two updates.

I seriously hope SE fails so hard for releasing such an unfinished product. Dont get me wrong, I have witnessed some MMO launches, they never were all perfect, but FFXIV launch was just a spit in the players/fanbases face. They need to fail hardcore seriously. (and they allready did halfway with the release, many people wont touch the game until 6 month - 1 year has passed) No company should get a 2. chance after such a fail release, especially if they had previous MMO experience like SE had.

[Hyan]

What I don't want to see, however, is some new upstart company copying this method, thinking that its easier to push a pile of shit out the door and fix it later than to release something that's actually playable and fun, while continuously playing. I don't want to hear "XIV did it!" as some new meme for eventual success after a terrible start.

Anyone with a brain can see only a well established company with a shitton of cash can pull this off, and that's an if.

They are, as of right now, throwing away money at an increasing rate while putting as much resources into the game as possible. They are gaining nothing but they are losing so much. Smaller companies would get destroyed if they attempted the same.

The whole genre is big boy's playground. I hope this incident teaches them that.

[Lucavi]

We'll see, Hyan. There's a lot of Monkey See - Monkey Do in the MMO world. I'd hate to see this kind of tripe gain ground.