The Current Hierarchy of DDs

[Sylvrdragon]

It may cost more to downgrade your DDs now than it did at 75, but what is cost when everyone is rich? When/if the content starts to get more difficult, I think that is when we will start seeing the lower tier DDs really start to cry (like the loldrg/lolthf days). When people are being asked to change jobs, or flat out excluded because they can't, then the problem will become more apparent. As it stands, we don't HAVE to optimize our groups to do end-game content. The only benefit to doing so is to save time, which is also cheap.

[Yugl]

Yugl, the last 2 pages have been a discussion on how the new armor looks, and regurgitation builds, it qualifies no more as "Job Findings" than shit in this thread does to the Heirarchy of DDs.

I'm sorry, did you really just say something them finding something NEW does not qualify as a finding? Like I said, if you truly feel that way, go protest against it.

This thread is in fact, examining the differences in DDs, what causes those differences, how to close the gap, how large the gap is (which is far more significant imo than "which job is best"...saying war>mnk>nin>w/e is much less useful than saying war is 15% ahead of mnk is 20% ahead of nin is 55% ahead of whatever. Quantity is important, and examining these relationships is useful

So which of those pertains to:

Your analogy is garbage...if we up the damage of mnk and war by an extra 100% of what it does now, and nin by another 80%, you still end up with your layout of 2,1,pack,2. The difference is relevant however, so I don't see how your massive generalization means anything. Drk was already one of the worst DDs at 75, and War one of the best. Now, War got a huge buff and Drk stayed exactly where it was. I don't see how you can't say that the gap widened, and it's more unbalanced. Is it a huge deal? No, probably not. Is it more unbalanced than the past? For sure. Did RR magically fix the game and make it more balanced? Not at all.

I do agree with you that trashiest melee is never worth having in the ally...the point is that's a blurry line, and in the end, only the top 1-2 are truly worth having in the ally (though in practice, I don't actually care what people come on - but this isn't a new to Abyssea thing, it's always been that way unless something was very under-manned.). I won't sit here and argue their jobs are worth having and we aren't hurting ourselves by taking them though...

I'm sorry you don't feel that way - honestly, don't click on the thread, it's not our job at all to provide only what you feel is pertinent. The thread title does not say or imply that we should list the order of jobs sans discussion, and in fact, if everyone just replied with their opinion of the top5 jobs in order, this would be a far stupider thread than it is. And yes, I bit, don't care/etc.

While we're at it, why don't we just say "Don't click Abyssea Discussion thread if you didn't want us to talk about Dynamis!". The point isn't to provide opinion (As much as you want to do/believe that). It's to provide an order. The level of balance in a hierarchy is irrelevant since as long as there can be distinction, there is order. We need not get into a discussion of power hierarchy on BG, for example, in order to assess that Isladar would trump you in power. We don't need to assess the past in order to determine the hierarchy because we're concerned with the current status. Using the same example, we don't need to concern ourselves with whether Isladhalmel was once not a MOD because the fact of the matter is s/he is now.

Two final points. WAR and MNK. It should be damn obvious by now when and where to use each. It's clear they're at the top of the hierarchy. They should be the least discussed classes; yet, we're still going on about them and the relevance of other classes. If BG is about being the best, situations matter, but the level of difference need not concern us just as how marginal improvements in performance does not stop us from saying that one gear is better than another, and thus, is the reason we should strive to obtain said gear. Who really uses "X is only better by Y%" in arguments? People making excuses to sub-optimize. The second point is that even if we were concerned about % of variance, it is meaningless unless we assess in a particular scenario. Since we acknowledge that different desired outcomes (Atma/Drops/Kill/Seal) require different set ups, it's more pointless to talk about % variance as a general concept. Even if we aggregate the percentage, it means nothing since you would create ridiculous statements such as "Hey, I should use WAR when I want blue drops from this NM that I'm planning on popping at 05:00 in game because it's 5% better than MNK!". Needless to say, you're really defending not posting drops in drops thread (Except in advanced, that's just wrong).

[isladar]

Eight pages and we haven't made a hierarchical chart for DDs. Bravo BG, only you. Can we close this thread now?

Don't fucking backseat mod.

[Hyan]

PUP is off the charts?

[Isiolia]

PUP is off the charts?

Behind the 'ch' I think. At least on alternating Thursdays.

[isladar]

I think it's under the "ch" in hierarchy. I think you know what that means.

[rog]

Don't fucking backseat mod.

It all makes sense now.

[Byrthnoth]

You know, this hierarchy is fairly irrelevant, because something like 80% of the game population still uses level 75 weapons.

Perdu Voulge, Hagun, Destroyers, etc. Beastmasters all seem to have 10,000 axes of course, because they're used to having to solo shit.

[Obsidian]

I'd like to see the parse that gave birth to that graph.

[Marcicus]

PLD is above NIN therefore it is wrong; fuck Isla and her terrible chart!

[Foldypaws]

Haha, I love this chart.

[rog]

PLD is on the chart therefore it is wrong; fuck Isla and her terrible chart!

ftfy

[Dooom]

PUP is off the charts?

Jokes aside, it's slightly amusing that there's talk of how to "fix" drk and samurai, but pup and rng haven't been mentioned in this context. Is this down to the different roles a pup's robot can cover, and because rng works differently to other DDs (no auto-attack, haste is largely meaningless for them etc.), an oversight, or are they simply being dismissed?

[TheDirtyHobo]

Jokes aside, it's slightly amusing that there's talk of how to "fix" drk and samurai, but pup and rng haven't been mentioned in this context. Is this down to the different roles a pup's robot can cover, and because rng works differently to other DDs (no auto-attack, haste is largely meaningless for them etc.), an oversight, or are they simply being dismissed?

Stringing Pummel is pretty damn good with RR, PUP is up there with the rest of DDs easily.

[Byrthnoth]

RNG's 6k WSs aren't exactly making me pity them either. They will always have a place, but they aren't a melee DD.

[Khajit]

Good news drks. It seems a lv 85 ragnarok can outDD a brd with a lv 75 Dex kila that's pulling at the same time.

[Yugl]

Don't fucking backseat mod.

If I were modding, I wouldn't ask for it to be closed/rerailed.

[benny]

If I were modding, I wouldn't ask for it to be closed/rerailed.

Man, a backseat driver doesn't have his hands on the wheel either, that's why it's BACKSEAT modding.

[Yugl]

Man, a backseat driver doesn't have his hands on the wheel either, that's why it's BACKSEAT modding.

So anyone who exerts influence or argues for a general direction is a backseat mod then? Wouldn't that apply to both parties in conflict?

[Byrthnoth]

Simmer class, simmer!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d3InAVam3E