Heroes of Abyssea Now Available for Advance Purchase! (11/24/2010)

[Spira]

Spoiler: show

the way i get it is that in the true timeline (Lilith's timeline), the Shadow Lord's army overwhelmed the allied forces, conflict and chaos never ended and only the fittest who survived ultimately pledged themselves to darkness (Odin), with Lilith being the leader of them all.
Altana, as one of the two original deities to the world, grieved over the major loss of lives in the Crystal War and this caused her to (knowingly or unknowingly) create an entirely different timeline where the Crystal War did end and it'd follow thru into the original storyline for FFXI. This fabricated timeline is no less real than the true one, but it isn't naturally occuring.

Somewhere along the line, tears of Altana that came to possess some living corporeal form (the Cait Siths) decided that they'd take this one step further by summoning Atomos to devour the true timeline so that Altana's alternate one would become the true one - at this point i'm assuming these timeline deviations / tampering with time is common enough that Atomos could have been invented with that purpose. However because he cannot really act independently, the Caits try to nudge Altana's timeline in its favor so it wouldn't get devoured, but it catcehs the attention of Lilith and so she sends her army along to make sure her dark timeline remains intact.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Fuck spoilers. The only thing being discussed anymore is WotG storyline.

There's nothing to suggest that we're the result of any alternate timeline. All signs point to our "reality" being created post Crystal War, having no actual past to support it. This is reinforced outside the Throne Room when Lilith refers to Lilisette's version of how the Crystal War played out as a "fairytale".

[miokomioko]

So the Altana's tears creationist myth applies to both the beginning of the 5 races and the alternate universe she created post-crystal war?

[Spira]

Actually no.
Went and rewatched the CS where they explain this.

Cait Sith specifically states that they on behalf of Altana intervened with the course of time, causing the existence of our future (which is the alternate one). The past before the Crystal War is the same in both realities - the Battle at Xarcabard is the point in time where the fork occurs. Cait Sith also goes on to explain that they didn't create the reality we're playing in by themselves. All they did was indirectly nudge history along the way to the extent that our reality became a possibility.

Lilith's comment on the fairytale was merely mocking our reality in that it would have been too good to be true (which it is, if not for divine intervention).
Our reality just happens to not be the true original one, but otherwise its just as real, hence there are 2 realities, 2 timelines past the Battle at Xarcabard.

As for Altana's tears creationist myth... she was the one who sundered the original Crystal to create vana'diel and the 5 races but it isn't actually the 5 tears she shed that made the 5 races but maybe simply 5 aspects of Promathia's emptiness than manifested as different form/traits in the 5 races - it was never really explained. 5 was just the magic number.
In other words, the 5 races thing is a complete myth, because Promathia didn't actually create beastmen either.

But for the tears during the crystal war, I stand corrected over what I posted earlier on. The tears manifested themselves as the 9 Caits. These 9 Caits were the ones responsible for altering time, so Altana indirectly altered the course of history. Not create, but 'encouraged'

[Rocl]

iirc Altana / Cait Sith woke up Atomos too

also: but who was Abyssea?

[miokomioko]

Abyssea is the third universe where some aliens attacked, apparently. Final Sliders XI.

Universe 1: Altana didn't give a shit about us losing the Crystal War.
Universe 2: Altana crie'd out some Caits that helped us win the Crystal War.
Universe 3: Mars attacks! (not sure where this universe would fork off of either of the previous two, or before they forked from each other)

Or did Altana always cry out the Caits and the fork between 1 and 2 was later when they/we succeeded in nudging the war effort in our favor or were defeated by Lilith? I guess it has to be that way since the Caits existed in the past at all. So yeah.

Universe 1: Caits/you fail.
Universe 2: Caits/you win.
Universe 3: Buh?!

[ronin sparthos]

Fuck spoilers. The only thing being discussed anymore is WotG storyline.

There's nothing to suggest that we're the result of any alternate timeline. All signs point to our "reality" being created post Crystal War, having no actual past to support it. This is reinforced outside the Throne Room when Lilith refers to Lilisette's version of how the Crystal War played out as a "fairytale".

In both timelines, the pre-Crystal War events are identical. The Caits only "created" the Altana timeline from a snippet of the original timeline, allowing events to play out in a positive way.

Really, both timelines have equal right to exist but Lilith calls it a "fairytale" because of how unfair it was for Altana to condemn their world to oblivion (being devoured by Atomos) while embracing a reality fashioned only to satisfy her whims.

Lilith is pretty justified in her actions. Moreso than the average villain I 'spose.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Fair enough, guess its been too long since I saw that CS.

And you're right, Sparthos. I find it extremely amusing that the "bad guy" in this entire debacle is really the only justified entity, and that Lilith is essentially going to pay the ultimate price for Altana's inability to get shit right the first time.

[Malacite]

Which is all the more reason I can't wait to see how it all ends. I wanna know if SE pulls out some happy, fairytale bullshit where both worlds are saved or someone goes off to correct all the horrible evils of Lilith's word. That, or we get a truly gritty ending where the real Vana'diel gets put out of its misery. Either way Odin is the real villain in all this and someone needs to take his ass out already.


And then there's the shit form the trailer with Shinryuu/Atomos. The WoE is supposed to be the crossroads for all times & dimensions, so it'll be interesting to see if that gets connected to Abyssea.

[ronin sparthos]

Which is all the more reason I can't wait to see how it all ends. I wanna know if SE pulls out some happy, fairytale bullshit where both worlds are saved or someone goes off to correct all the horrible evils of Lilith's word. That, or we get a truly gritty ending where the real Vana'diel gets put out of its misery. Either way Odin is the real villain in all this and someone needs to take his ass out already.


And then there's the shit form the trailer with Shinryuu/Atomos. The WoE is supposed to be the crossroads for all times & dimensions, so it'll be interesting to see if that gets connected to Abyssea.

I never really considered Odin to be "evil" moreso a force of nature.

Odins purpose is to choose individuals that suit him to pursue his ideals. He gives the individuals powers and allows them to do as they will but at the end of the day are just a tool for his eternal conflict with Alexander.

Anyone who cleared TOAU knows that Alexander is no different from Odin though he embodies light. Where Odin looks for strong emotions in a knight, Alexander seeks servitude and judges those who oppose him harshly. Both entities simply view the inhabitants of Vana'diel as chess pieces to be used but what else do you expect from the only active prime avatars?

In the recent post-TOAU events, your character becomes one of Odin's knights, joining the ranks of Raogrimm, Lilith and Luzaf. I assumed it was just an excuse for a Highlander battle (there can only be one!) between yourself and Lilith in an Apoc Nigh style battle but it does go to show that Odin doesn't only choose people with dark agendas.

[Malacite]

And the two of them clashing nearly wiped out a whole continent, and did wipe out the Olduum Civilization.

However Odin is still responsible for the Crystal War, which makes him the main villain (to me) and it's actually quite ironic that Lilith would turn to the one who brought about her world's ruination for power. Without Odin, there wouldn't have ever been a Shadow Lord, and Raogrim would have simply died a pitiful, meaningless death.

I also like to blame Ulric too, for poetic reasons - One man's recklessness ended up bringing about the destruction of an entire world.

[Hyan]

They better make a book that continues the story, it's finally getting really interesting but they can't seem to work on it in-game anymore. Shit could get really epic in the far east.

[Forte]

So, the hilarious thing is what ronin sparthos said. We technically become Odin's knight as well, so we're going around fucking with things just as much as his other knights.

I think Odin is secretly some ancient neckbeard god who just likes to fuck with shit.

EDIT: Far East, South, North are all really cool places we will never visit.

EDIT2: I WANT MY FUCKING PHOENIX I WILL KILL YOU TENZEN YOU WHORE!

[Fereydoon]

I have to be the only person who wants to visit the far west more than anywhere else.

[Hyan]

They fucking better not sidetrack in XIV with "past" expansions and some weird tavnazia shit (if it picks up). CoP could have taken place in far east too, goddamnit. WoTG could have been north/south/west too. And why did we end up in near east in ToAU, nobody cares about near east. Le sigh.

/fanfic

CoP could have started with us going to the Far East on the airship armada like in 6-4 and tenzen battle. How fucking epic could that have been. Have the first fight take place on the airship, then throw us into promyvion. When promyvions are cleared, you'd end waking up in the Far East, outside the capital or something.

Then instead of "near east" they could have made ToAU "far west" or something. WoTG, the "let's cut the budget for XIV"-expansion could have reused textures to build far north and south from uleguerand, altepa and yuhtunga pallette etc.

[Malacite]

I still think CoP has the most epic opening of all the plots anyway, what with Bahamut rising from the depths of the sea to declare war on humanity & all. Seriously, Bahamut was just epic as a plot device, far more engaging and interesting than the other terrestrials were.

Which is kind of sad really. There's a lot of story behind Diabolos and Dynamis, but all we really focused on was Raogrimm and Diabolos pissing & moaning (I never did finish Dyna Tav, so idk how it ends)


And yes, there's a hell of a lot of potential for future plots. Vana'diel is huge but we've barely even seen half of it. Maybe a 3rd at best. There's still Tenzen's home, where SAM NIN & SMN all come from (The Yagudo were the 1st to use summoning magic, Karuha-Baruha just took it to the next level) with all the crap about Tenzen slaughtering an entire village to restore phoenix. Not to mention it's also the homeland of the Wyverns. Didn't the emptiness bleed out there as well? I thought Tenzen spoke of it at some point.

Then there's the Orcish Empire in the frozen north where Excenmille lead his expedition for vengeance, which was alluded to at the end of the San d'oria nation quests. It's also the home of the Gigas. There's the western lands which we know fuck all about except for those 3 gear sets from CoP. And then there's the Mithran Empire on the Southern continent. Never mind all the crazy shit that was mentioned in Zilart & CoP that we never actually saw, only were told about, such as the War between the Zilart & Kuluu. I mean shit, of all the possibilities for time travel, the went with the Crystal War over showing us the Zilart at the height of their civilization right up to their eventual destruction at the hands of Bahamut.

There's also the war between Aht Urhgan & Ephramad, the original Ragnarok between Alex & Odin, so many epic events that were never shown only fed tidbits of information... Even for WotG, like they could have at least shown Raogrimm's transformation into the Shadow Lord and his meeting with Odin, assembling his dark kindred army and rallying the beastmen. No, none of that cool backstory. Fuck we didn't even get to see pre-destruction Tavnazia, which is still the biggest fuck up of WotG to me. How many times were the devs asked if we'd see it, only to be fed more of their bullshit excuses?

In summary, I fully support the notion of an FFXI manga chronicling all the cool shit we never saw but were told about.

Hell, there's still that portal in the ruins that Shantotto said lead to the realm of the avatars...

[miokomioko]

we didn't even get to see pre-destruction Tavnazia

No Tavnazia at all was their biggest let-down. It was the main topic of the god damn intro video.

[Spira]

I really wonder how the story will go for WotGs ending. Lilith isn't exactly bad, but she DID submit to darkness by making a pact with Odin (tho as someone mentioned technically we do too) and that is supposedly not justifiable in the eyes of Cait Sith who acts as an agent of Altana.

So much of Vana'diel could be explored... as others have mentioned.. the Far East, Olzhirya and the Mithran islands to the south, Ulbuka to the west and Rhazowa and the Orcish Empire to the North. It would be great if FFXI started exploring new regions again instead of alternate realities. There hasn't really been any major new zone additions since Grauberg / Karugo-Narugo / Vunkerl at WotGs 2007 release. Walk of Echoes isn't even a full real zone.

Scenario add-ons didn't touch on zones at all, whereas Abyssea add-ons came with slightly retooled versions of old areas. If the team developing the add-on content were a little more hardworking, they could easily churn out a couple of entirely new zones per update, which would be more than sufficient in covering a new region or continent imo.

I could just imagine them adding like a series of 3 separate add-ons for say the Far-East. They could start by adding a city/outpost area for free, and then charge their add-on fee for 2-3 zones that link to that 'base' location so that they can still function independently. Add NMs, quests and throw in a story that strings everything together and bam we got an effective expansion that spans 3 updates.

Of course, it'll also cost them more in terms of putting resources in to develop new content for FFXI, but i don't see why they shouldn't do it. There's nothing left for them to offer from WotGs content pool (and the only thing they've really offered from there in like the last 3 updates was Walk of Echoes and lolFiat Lux that no one will ever do again). Main dev team won't have anything real to work on in XI and I don't really see XI releasing a full expansion pack anymore. (i'm assuming Abyssea add-on team is the same additional staff they hired for working on scenario add-ons too)

[Hyan]

I think creating the actual areas takes most resources? I'm not sure if it's that simple. Considering the playerbase has decreased by like 90k since the summer they need more incentive to make a real expansion again. They'd either have to charge something absurd (like 30 bucks) for the add-ons or solely focus on them while not updating the game otherwise anymore.

At least that's what I assume.

[Spira]

The drop in playerbase is pretty steep but thats got less to do with the quality of FFXI and more with people taking up FFXIV imo.

XI is more than able to fund itself in terms of churning out new content like entire zones based on monthly subscription revenue alone - that's the cash cow unit after all. The $10 from add-ons go towards defraying costs from the additional stuff they're used to make.. but I think what they're putting out is worth a lot less than that.

I mean, add-ons are not made equal. ACP came with 1 new mob model that barely requires animating. 5 reskinned mobs to have a glowy effect, a handful of cutscenes with not that many cutscenes that don't really have many new effects to go along with them.

Vision of Abyssea on the other hand, came with 1 edited zone, 3 new mobs + accompanying TP move animations/effects, 10 reskins, almost as many cutscene effects, and maybe 1/5 the amount of cutscenes.

Its hard to compare em both.. but I'm pretty sure the content wasn't measured out by its pricetag