/craftsmanship Magic craft synthesis recipies

[Chrisianna]

anyone here read japanese? the translation of the japanese site skater posted conflicts with the one posted on the english lodestone. is this another case of poor translation? which one is correct?

also, keep in mind this translation team is the one that decided to tell you "you receive bonus experience points" whenever youre under physical fatigue.

[Kalisto]

Ok, so an obvious theory slapped me upside the head the other day, so obvious i'm 99% convinced SE wouldn't make it this easy to figure out, but for the sake of that 1% I'm going to post so you guys can shoot it down for me.

As we know every crafting tool has a stat asociation STR,DEX etc. We also know that these stats are divided into physical stats (STR/DEX/VIT) and magic stats (MND/INT/PIE), so has anyone tested the obvious conclusion that if you do a synth using say a Goldsmith main hand tool (DEX) you would use craftsmanship, whereas if using the Goldsmith offhand (INT) you would use the magic craftsmanship set.

Being a bit of a jack of all crafts, I'm obviously master of none so it is hard to do testing myself and figured as people had been doign tests on specific sythns they can disprove this fairly easliy, so it can stop hanging around in the back of my mind.

Sorry if this has already been brought up already somewhere but I haven't been able to find anything in my reading through the few threads I could find.

As for each tool having a set stat I'm quoting SE's info
lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=145ee953e9223cb05a158b61126d9d2609e27e19
(not at 10 posts yet so i can't link the URL)

Edit: Copy and pasted the section from the link...

Discipline of the Hand

The effect of attributes on synthesis is limited. When attempting to craft a high-quality item, however, the likelihood of success increases as the attribute most closely associated with the tool being used rises. As the attributes associated with the main and off hand tools of each class are different, players may wish to give careful consideration to the class on which they wish to focus. A list showing the attributes related with the main and off hand tools of each class can be found below.

Class Related Attribute Main Hand Tool Off Hand Tool
Carpenter VIT DEX
Blacksmith STR MND
Armorer VIT STR
Goldsmith DEX INT
Leatherworker VIT INT
Weaver DEX MND
Alchemist INT PIE
Culinarian MND PIE

[Chrisianna]

i dont think its hand = stat otherwise i wouldnt have failed those rings so miserably.

my current running theory is if it makes more sense for your offhand to make it, its a magicraft. like bend wire into rings with pliers. smoothing and grinding gems with a wheel. spinning yarn with a spindle etc.

[Kalisto]

Double post

[miokomioko]

Alchemist and Culinarian do not have any physical stats related to their tools.

[Chrisianna]

alright so im arm25 making r30 leve darksteel buckles. hard as hell to make with craftsmanship gear. manageable im magicraft. buckles sound a pliers-y item right?

trying to find out what crafts are magic. if we get enough points we can make a line.

[arlee]

was reading similar topic on Zam, found this

can't post a link yet since i'm under 10 posts, so going to copy and paste

Coyohma wrote:

As far as I know..

Craftsmanship: Increases the success rate..
Magic Craftsmanship: Increases the quality gained during a synthesis attempt..
Control: Increases the stability of the synthesis and decreases durability loss..

KaineGestalt wrote:
People continue to say this, but SE pretty clearly stated that recipes are influenced by either or, not both. Is there any proof out there to support this?

Aurelius wrote:
I understand what you're saying, I agree with you, but let's just put a stop to this nonsense right here and right now. Let's not ask for proof. Just shut them down. Grind them into the ground under your boot if you must until people get it through their heads that it has been explained to us, it is relatively simple, and there are no excuses for guessing on that particular topic anymore.

Some recipes favor craftsmanship. Craftsmanship for those recipes = success rate and quality gains.

Other recipes favor magic craftsmanship. Magic craftsmanship for those recipes = success rate and quality gains.

How can you tell which stat a recipe favors? Look at a list on a site (or through your own experimentation) and find out which tool gives you additional quantity and which tools gives you additional quality (HQ1/2/3). Whichever tool gives you the quantity result is your hint to which stat the recipe favors.

Main hand = craftsmanship
Off hand = magic craftsmanship

(Finished items like gear favor both, with emphasis on craftsmanship, and will always give HQ1/2/3 results. That's why we were given tools like raising hammers (in addition to doming hammers), <whatever>beak hammers (in addition to cross-pein hammers, and ornamental hammers (in addition to chaser hammers). Different stat distribution. Slightly different purpose.)

And what that means is that unless SE changed it, control is your universal stat. If you're stacking craftsmanship and using your offhand tool for everything (like an armorer ranking up on rings/chain using pliers) you're missing the boat.

[Gadritan]

That post by Aurelius has a lot of fail in it. The reason we were given raising hammers in addition to doming hammers, and the reason they have different stat distribution, is b/c they have different optimal ranks. They're simply different tools to use at different ranks with different names.

So far I've had better results while stacking craft on arm offhand to HQ mats than I have stacking magic craft, though I'm still working on increasing my sample size at various times to try to account for as many variables as possible.

[arlee]

That post by Aurelius has a lot of fail in it. The reason we were given raising hammers in addition to doming hammers, and the reason they have different stat distribution, is b/c they have different optimal ranks. They're simply different tools to use at different ranks with different names.

whats that gotta do with what Aurelius said? they have different stat distribution because they are different optimal ranks is like saying a orange is orange color, cause clearly a R32 Iron Raising Hammer is going to have better stats then a R22 Iron Doming Hammer.

So far I've had better results while stacking craft on arm offhand to HQ mats than I have stacking magic craft, though I'm still working on increasing my sample size at various times to try to account for as many variables as possible.

notice he said whichever tool gives you the quantity result is your hint to which stat the recipe favors, so you stacking craft on your offhand and getting HQ means the recipe favors craftsmanship (since using offhand gave you the HQ using mainhand would give you quantity which means the recipe favors your main hand tool stat:craftsmanship)

[Gadritan]

whats that gotta do with what Aurelius said? they have different stat distribution because they are different optimal ranks is like saying a orange is orange color, cause clearly a R32 Iron Raising Hammer is going to have better stats then a R22 Iron Doming Hammer.

His logic was flawed on that part. He was making it sound like one would be better than the other at any given rank because they had a "slightly different purpose." They don't. The stats are distributed in the same manner on these. Perhaps he meant offhand tools which have m.craft stacked higher than craft.

notice he said whichever tool gives you the quantity result is your hint to which stat the recipe favors, so you stacking craft on your offhand and getting HQ means the recipe favors craftsmanship (since using offhand gave you the HQ using mainhand would give you quantity which means the recipe favors your main hand tool stat:craftsmanship)

Ya. I had it mixed up a bit there. Gonna mess around with it some and see what happens.

[miokomioko]

They're simply different tools to use at different ranks with different names.

They have different HQ results depending on the recipe.

[Gadritan]

They have different HQ results depending on the recipe.

So despite all being mainhand tools, the HQ results are reversed or something if using a raising hammer vs a doming hammer?

[miokomioko]

Wow, I misread that big time. Disregard that.

Yeah, raising/doming hammers are not different in any way in the same way that skillets/frypans, ornamental/chaser hammers, pickaxes/dolabras, and round/head knives, are the same exact tool with the same exact function (aside from stats/rank).

[Gadritan]

Yeah. That's why I'm not so sure he knows wth he's talking about. Haven't seen anything promising so far testing it out either.

[miokomioko]

In fact, raising hammers are literally for shaping metal around a protruding object ("raising") while doming hammers are for shaping metal into a depression ("sinking"). The two techniques have the same general result and both simply involve hammering metal to shape it into what you're hammering it against.

I digress.

[arlee]

Wow, I misread that big time. Disregard that.

Yeah, raising/doming hammers are not different in any way in the same way that skillets/frypans, ornamental/chaser hammers, pickaxes/dolabras, and round/head knives, are the same exact tool with the same exact function (aside from stats/rank).

I agree with that, whatever the names are main hand tools are always going to have more craftsmanship than magic craftsmanship. That part about the different hammers and what not that he posted I'm not too sure what he meant by saying using different main hand tools for different results cause clearly all main hand tools always have more craft that mag. craft.

But I did test out what he said about some recipes favoring a certain stat, it was just one test but I had amazing results. Will try to test more when I do locals or craft but heres my example

Was doing the Goldsmith leve that had you make Tortoiseshell Hora's, I've done it a good number of times now and every time I do it I use my main hand tool. Tried plenty of times to try and get a good quality rating on the synths but more times then not using bold I get very little quality gains and or it fails. So its pretty much standard all the way and the quality at the end is usually 2x-6x

After reading Aurelius's posts I checked on YG and saw that you get a HQ on the tortoiseshell hora using main hand tool, so following Aurelius posts this recipe must favor the offhand tool stat = mag. craftsmanship (although it favors it because the tool that gives quantity is the stat the recipe favors I'm not sure I've ever seen a finished gear item getting more than 1 of said item out of a synth)

I'm R28 so MH i'm using Iron Chaser Hammer and OH I'm using Ragstone Grinding Wheel comparing the stats between my MH and OH

MH - craftsmanship: 40 magic craftsmanship: 36
OH - craftsmanship: 37 magic craftsmanship: 48


Anyways I decided to use my offhand for the leve and it was a hugge difference from using my hammer, I was getting really good bold synths and dura lost was alot less and I was finally able to crack 80+ quality on a few synths.

Yes this was only one test but it was a very convincing result, I will try to test it out more when I do my locals and craft.

[reccaa]

To spice things up, one interesting thing I observed by comparing tools...
- CRP & WVR & CUL don't have an R47 MH, but instead have an OH.
- CRP & WVR & CUL have identical MH stats: 70/54/62 (Control/Magic Craft./Craft.)
- CRP & WVR & CUL R47 OH have 78 Magic Craft. whereas LTH R47 is control, ARM/BSM have balanced stats 69 for all 3 attributes, GSM favors Craftsmanship/

What does this imply? I do not know.

I just dinged CRP 30 and have switched to craftsmanship gear instead of control on making half masks, I did notice a drop in success, but I'll try it with magic craft. once I complete my magic craft set & report back again.

[miokomioko]

To spice things up, one interesting thing I observed by comparing tools...
- CRP & WVR & CUL don't have an R47 MH, but instead have an OH.
- CRP & WVR & CUL have identical MH stats: 70/54/62 (Control/Magic Craft./Craft.)
- CRP & WVR & CUL R47 OH have 78 Magic Craft. whereas LTH R47 is control, ARM/BSM have balanced stats 69 for all 3 attributes, GSM favors Craftsmanship/

What does this imply? I do not know.

I just dinged CRP 30 and have switched to craftsmanship gear instead of control on making half masks, I did notice a drop in success, but I'll try it with magic craft. once I complete my magic craft set & report back again.

I feel like if it's implying anything, it's that they do more "mass production" and the off-hand HQ of additional quantities would probably be preferred over +1/2/3. I'd rather make an entire stack of NQ food in one synth than get 3 or so +2s.

[neptunet]

So basically, we still have no clue and the variables are too many to try to figure anything out. For instance, how can you really do a test of one over the other with gear? A lot of gear has both stats. The Robes are where your main chunk of stats come from and they have both on them.

[jwang]

It's probably like how it was mentioned earlier: crafts that are more easily synthed with one type of tool will lean towards that aspect in terms of craft/m. craft. For example, both ARM's tools are "physical stat" based (VIT for primary and STR for secondary), therefore you would focus on craftsmanship and control, and can probably safely ignore m. craft. In contrast, BSM, GSM, and TAN all have physical stats for their primary and caster stat as secondary, so following the idea that stat for tool = secondary stat focus, theoretically speaking when grinding gems (only type of synth from the three listed crafts I can think of at the moment that would benefit from using secondary tool), it would be advisable to stack on the m. craft as opposed to craftsmanship. Of course, if it isn't a synth that benefits more from using secondary tool, then the m. craft doesn't help at all, and you're still better off using craftsmanship.