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  1. #21
    Chram
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    From what I've been reading, it seems likely that we'll need to run an entire new suite of dDex/crit tests. Where would we want to put that? Revive the old crit test thread?

  2. #22
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    Where are the tests that have you worried?

  3. #23
    Chram
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    No tests, but general reports of higher than normal crit rates (eg: close to capped crit rate with RR+GH, which should only be 75%). Given the update notes indicating the potential for change in crit rates, I figure we want to be sure our baseline expectations are still accurate, or find out what the new baseline should be.

  4. #24
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    If we do end up making new dDEX tests (Not sure we do), we should make a new thread and link to the old one. The reason for that is if you're looking for the most *recent* information, you would have to look in the middle of the old thread (Impossible pretty much) to find when the newest information starts. You would also have no clue when that point starts until you reach the end since any new info you run by could easily be replaced a few posts later. Hence, I think it's best to link to old threads and start new ones when doing that sort of "Necro-testing."

  5. #25
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    I have all the equipment from my recent Box step tests. I will give this a try later tonight. I'll probably use dDEX=14 and dDEX=18 again, because I already have the gear from that and have a recent sample pre-patch.

    In a brief Abyssea parse, GH and RR came out as expected. 75% crit rate with 10% base, 15% from dDEX, and 50% from Atma. Nothing to see here, folks!

    New memlock is 0x00584e68

    I'm leaving my d00ds swinging at an Hpmede overnight to be sure, one with dDEX exactly = cap and the other with a random dDEX that I haven't even checked yet.

  6. #26
    Masamune
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    Yugl actually i think the final results posted in the wiki discussion page should be enough as a starting point if ppl want to re-test dDEX40+. Half of the old crit thread are just comments and questions about methodology.

    On another topic, i'm wondering, since the PlayerStats @ GoogleSheets got quite some additions from ppl, if those help Motenten with Stats Formulas ?

  7. #27
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    Well if it's new tests, it's only referring to old tests insofar as we need to compare. Either of those works, but to avoid linking to dead website, the plan is to have some sort of BG base.

  8. #28
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    I'm actually really enjoying filling out the BG wiki. It's so nice to have a wiki that lacks stupid comments, plentiful ads, and a stupid background/>9000 scripts. It has also pointed out to me a bunch of things that I still need to test.

    I'm working almost exclusively on the Dancer section. You'd be surprised how quickly you can learn to write in wiki-code. Like, I almost did [[Dancer]] right there.

  9. #29
    Masamune
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    Noticed someone keeps adding "tiers" to Fencer wikipedia page, while never showing any test...

    Also another person seems to think Fencer might give more than 40TP for WSs above a certain level... with a kinda flawed test (used Mistral axe and eyeballed dmg differences...).

    I can't test since i only have WAR90 and noone to lvlsync me to a lower level.

  10. #30
    Relic Weapons
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masamune View Post
    Noticed someone keeps adding "tiers" to Fencer wikipedia page, while never showing any test...

    Also another person seems to think Fencer might give more than 40TP for WSs above a certain level... with a kinda flawed test (used Mistral axe and eyeballed dmg differences...).

    I can't test since i only have WAR90 and noone to lvlsync me to a lower level.
    Was some testing here: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103...=1#post4506548

  11. #31
    Masamune
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    Why ppl so LAZY to post a simple link to the test alongwith modifying a wiki page... /endrant -.-

    Thank you Xera, now how to add it to the 1st post now Isladar reduxed whole forum...

  12. #32
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    I'll add all the stuff to the first post.

    Edit: Also, if you can, add to Math_Talk in Wiki (PM Septimus or Byrthnoth for more info on that).

  13. #33
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    I can't edit the OP anymore, but I've solved the Fan and Saber Dance questions in the OP. Fan Dance is applied in a separate step from PDT, and otherwise our knowledge about it was complete. Testing or links are on the discussion pages of BG wiki.

    I'd like to ask the community to think of some way to test the following facts:
    Can AF3+2 sets proc on Weaponskills? The one attempt to rigorously test this (I believe Karbuncle went around Assassin Charge -> WSing L0 monsters) may have been confounded by the fact that THF AF3+2 never procs main hand and has additional offhand weirdness. Everything else is anecdotal, and many of the sets wouldn't actually have any way to know if their set bonus procced even on the main hit (Monk, Ninja, Samurai) or use such high fTP WSs with such large amounts of DA/TA that it's almost impossible to tell if it did happen (THF, BST, PUP, everything else).
    * Good Candidates -
    Torcleaver DRK should know. It would be a spike in damage that's not reflected in the TP return, and it should be larger than a Triple Attack Torcleaver. That said, how many Bale pieces are good in a Torcleaver build? If it's a 1% rate and the DRK isn't always at full HP / sits in the locker, they might just be writing it off.
    Rhongomat Dragoon might know, if they ever used Camlann's. Unfortunately, I think most still just use Drakes, and a Proc Camlann's with <100% Wyvern HP could be confused with a Triple Attack anyway.

  14. #34
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    How do Fan Dance and Scherzo/Earthen Armor interact, if Fan Dance is separate from PDT?

  15. #35
    TSwiftie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    I can't edit the OP anymore, but I've solved the Fan and Saber Dance questions in the OP. Fan Dance is applied in a separate step from PDT, and otherwise our knowledge about it was complete. Testing or links are on the discussion pages of BG wiki.

    I'd like to ask the community to think of some way to test the following facts:
    Can AF3+2 sets proc on Weaponskills? The one attempt to rigorously test this (I believe Karbuncle went around Assassin Charge -> WSing L0 monsters) may have been confounded by the fact that THF AF3+2 never procs main hand and has additional offhand weirdness. Everything else is anecdotal, and many of the sets wouldn't actually have any way to know if their set bonus procced even on the main hit (Monk, Ninja, Samurai) or use such high fTP WSs with such large amounts of DA/TA that it's almost impossible to tell if it did happen (THF, BST, PUP, everything else).
    * Good Candidates -
    Torcleaver DRK should know. It would be a spike in damage that's not reflected in the TP return, and it should be larger than a Triple Attack Torcleaver. That said, how many Bale pieces are good in a Torcleaver build? If it's a 1% rate and the DRK isn't always at full HP / sits in the locker, they might just be writing it off.
    Rhongomat Dragoon might know, if they ever used Camlann's. Unfortunately, I think most still just use Drakes, and a Proc Camlann's with <100% Wyvern HP could be confused with a Triple Attack anyway.
    I tested AF3+2 /w DRK using Brainshaker or skullbreaker or something in controlled conditions outside Abyssea. Not a single proc in over 100 WS, so I feel fairly confident that set bonus won't proc on WS.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foldypaws View Post
    How do Fan Dance and Scherzo/Earthen Armor interact, if Fan Dance is separate from PDT?
    I have no idea, but I'll probably test at some point. For every answer, there's another question!

    Moving my Conserve MP testing to the Random Fact Thread for organizational reasons.

  17. #37
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    MNK 71, has anyone tested kick attacks rate? Wiki says "theorized" to be at 10%, but I imagine there is a way to do a test using Hpmede (People familiar with parse unlike myself can help with that).

    Edit: Hmmm, may not work depending on how H2H affects base damage. Though it is possible to spike the pDIF to the point where there becomes zero damage using level correlation.

  18. #38
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    Getting H2H to hit for 0 damage crits is going to be *really* hard.

    even with 0 skill, you have 3 base damage, which means 2 minimum after fSTR -1 (the floor). A max pdif crit at 0 cratio is 1.4, so you need at least -.95 cRatio. to push your crit damage below 1 and thus make you hit for 0.

    Which means a mob 19 levels above you.

    So you'd need 0-11 h2h skill, and to be (or sync to) no more than level 57 (77-19), which is when the highest level hpmedes would be too low. So impossible to test KA II this way.

    probably better off just parsing vs fortification or assault walls or something.

  19. #39
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    Well, that's a bummer. I might do the fortification method if mobs don't aggro, but that won't let me sleep on the testing.

  20. #40
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    Striking Flourish with AF3+2 body crit rate was pretty well bumped off a while ago. Also, Conserve MP doesn't have tiers (shown in the Random Fact thread recently).

    I finally finished my VNMs for Twashtar, and you cannot possess two Twashtars even if they have different levels. It gives me the same message that I'd get if I was trying to make the same type of Empyrean armor twice.

    Also, you can't hit for 0 with H2H. Base weapon rank is 1, which means negative fSTR caps at -1. Minimum base damage is 3, so it's impossible to hit 0 base damage I think.

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