Item Search
     
BG-Wiki Search
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 174
  1. #41
    Relic Shield
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,809
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Cerberus

    Quote Originally Posted by Yugl View Post
    Well, that's a bummer. I might do the fortification method if mobs don't aggro, but that won't let me sleep on the testing.
    Boreas Cesti make it pretty obvious what's a kick and what isn't if you have them muled/in storage/whatever.

  2. #42
    E. Body
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,378
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Quetzalcoatl

    What would be the best way to perform a test for an increase in fTP mod on a piece of gear?

    I'm trying to see if Rancor Collar adds some kind of dmg mod to you based on tonberry enmitty. My guess is something like 0.1 fTP mod for every n enmitty. However I don't know what I'd do to calculate what the increase is.

    Do I just go reset enmitty, do a shit tonne of weaponskills on some robber crabs, generate about 100 tonberries of enmitty, then do a shit tonne more of weaponskills on crabs?

    If I post those numbers would that be enough for someone here to tell if something happened?

  3. #43
    BG Content
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    16,861
    BG Level
    9
    FFXI Server
    Lakshmi
    Blog Entries
    1

    No, the best way to do it is just to use Aeolian Edge at the same TP twice, once with and once without the collar. I got 5 FMs, unequipped my weapon to reset TP, targetted a different mob, put the weapon back on, did Reverse Flourish for 100TP exactly, and Aeolian Edged. It was the same damage, so Rancor collar does not affect MAB, fTP, or TP Bonus.

    The only thing I've found for sure that it does so far is Damage Taken +10%.

  4. #44
    An exploitable mess of a card game
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    13,252
    BG Level
    9
    FFXIV Character
    Gouka Mekkyaku
    FFXIV Server
    Gilgamesh
    FFXI Server
    Diabolos

    Quote Originally Posted by evilpaul View Post
    Boreas Cesti make it pretty obvious what's a kick and what isn't if you have them muled/in storage/whatever.
    If I do test, I'll be sure to get those Cesti (again).

  5. #45
    E. Body
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,378
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Quetzalcoatl

    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    No, the best way to do it is just to use Aeolian Edge at the same TP twice, once with and once without the collar. I got 5 FMs, unequipped my weapon to reset TP, targetted a different mob, put the weapon back on, did Reverse Flourish for 100TP exactly, and Aeolian Edged. It was the same damage, so Rancor collar does not affect MAB, fTP, or TP Bonus.

    The only thing I've found for sure that it does so far is Damage Taken +10%.
    Well normally the things that give damage taken+ either have some kind of large plus side for tanking, generally involving enmity or evasion, or an aggressive berserk style set up, like att+ or something.

    What remains to be tested on the collar, I'm pretty bored and willing to do whatever is involved with checking what else this collar may affect. Maybe it lowers enmity loss while taking damage?

  6. #46
    BG Content
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    16,861
    BG Level
    9
    FFXI Server
    Lakshmi
    Blog Entries
    1

    * Cure VI needs a solid Cure formula
    * No one has verified what the Impetus bonus on MNK +1 body is.
    * Terror Touch Enmity (guess is ... maybe 320/320?)
    * What does SCH AF3+2 body do to Addendums?
    * Afflatus Misery Testing, where?
    * CE/VE, effect (Evasion), and duration/range for Arcane Crest
    * Aspir Samba/Aspir Samba II, how does it work?
    * Astral Flow's Enmity generated.
    * Beast Roll's potency, lucky numbers, etc.
    * COR hands +1 Skillchain Bonus and Phantom Roll duration increase.
    * Bounty Shot enmity generated.
    * Boost given by Building Flourish
    * How do Monster gloves affect Call Beast exactly? I know they change 0-2 below the BST to 0-1, but do they affect capped pets in any way?
    * Beast Roll potency per roll (use a /ra automatron?)
    * Bolter's Roll potency per roll (the same way I tested Atma/gear movement speed)
    * Call Beast enmity.
    * Is the Camouflage page right? How does AF1/+1 body work to increase duration?
    * Mavi Kavuk +1/2, Are they +10/20 Base damage respectively? Where is the testing?
    * Does Charm+ have a cap? (probably does)
    * Where is the original Chi Blast testing?
    * Choral Roll testing. It actually wouldn't be hard at all for someone with a build.
    * What does Raider's Vest do to Conspirator?
    * What is Conspirator's Acc bonus?
    * Are the numbers from Corsair's Roll correct, and where did they come from?
    * I need a PUP to write the Maneuver category page.
    * Deep Breathing's Enmity.
    * Despoil range? Enmity? Probably 1/300
    * How do THF AF3+1/2 feet enhance Despoil? What are possible enfeebles given by Despoil?
    * Deus Ex Automata Enmity? Where is the testing that shows HP% = Level/3?
    * How does Diabolic Eye interact with HP+ gear / HP latent gear (like Parade Gorget?)
    * Divine Caress activation Enmity generated?
    * PLD AF3+1/2 feet effect on Divine Emblem? Probably a further Enmity boost.
    * Dodge, I assume the evasion bonus was quantified basically by being told by SE? Same with Temple Gaiters?
    * Double Shot... What's the double shot rate? What does Sylvan Gapette +1/2 do to it? What is its activation Enmity? There's pretty much nothing known.
    * Drachen Roll values. This should be pretty easy for any Puppetmaster and COR combo.
    * Dragon Breaker Enmity, Range, and Potency (same as Arcane Crest)
    * Delay -> Drain range equation for Drain and Aspir Sambas.
    * Efflux? What does it do? Where is the testing? How does Mavi Tayt +1/+2 affect it?
    * What do Caller's Pigaches +1 do to Elemental Siphon?
    * Familiar activation enmity and how the heck does it enhance pet strength?
    * Feint page claims to be Evasion -50%. Where is the testing?
    * Flashy Shot's effect on Enmity? Confirmation that it negates all level correction?
    * Fighter's Roll potency?
    * Where is the Footwork testing? Tantra Gaiters+1/2 too prz!
    * Gallant's Roll testing? Where is it?
    * High Jump range
    * Immanence enmity? (Probably 1/80)
    * Impetus Enmity? (probably 1/300)
    * NIN Head +1/2 "Enhances Innin?"
    * Mana Cede range? Enmity?
    * Mantra radius?
    * Manifestation radius?
    * How does Mug work?
    * How does Assassin's Bonnet affect Mug?
    * Monk's Roll potency per roll? Where is the testing?
    * Libra range?
    * Overdrive activation Enmity?
    * Perfect Counter activation Enmity?
    * Perpetuance activation Enmity?
    * Release/Retreat VE?
    * Repair VE/CE/Range? AF feet+1 still only remove one status?
    * Role Reversal VE/CE/Range
    * Retrieve VE/CE?
    * Restoring Breath range/VE/CE?
    * Rogue's Roll needs some firming up, but I'm working on it.
    * Saboteur Enmity
    * How many shurikens does Sange throw? How does it work with AF3+2 head?
    * Sengikori VE/CE, and Unkai Sune-Ate +1/2's effects on the JA?
    * Sepulcher range, Evasion penalty, VE/CE?
    * Sharpshot Ranged Accuracy? Hunter's Braccae/+1's effect?
    * Shield Bash base damage without enhancement?
    * Shikikiyo CE, VE, and Range?
    * Soul/Spirit Jump CE/VE?
    * Spirit Surge damage bonus testing?
    * Smiting Breath CE/VE, and Range?
    * Spirit Link CE, VE, and Range? How do Lancer's Vambraces +1 affect it?
    * Stealth Shot stacks with Barrage how?
    * Striking Flourish CE/VE?
    * Stutter Step potency?
    * Super Jump activation enmity and mechanics?
    * Is the Tame page correct? That's not what I remember.
    * Tame VE/CE/Range
    * Tenuto CE/VE
    * Trick Attack'd Weapon Skills with Skillchain. Who gets Skillchain hate?
    * Triple Shot CE/VE, base, and Navarch's Frac +1/2 proc rate?
    * Ventriloquy VE/CE/Range?
    * Yonin gives Counter with Iga Hakama +1/2? Testing? Rate?
    * What is Yonin's Accuracy penalty?
    * Wild Card's MP restored?



    Pages I would like checked for correctness:
    * Is the Counterstance page correct?
    * Is all the stuff written about Charm on the page correct?
    * Chain Affinity - How does it work? Is the description correct? Where is the testing?
    * Does Fold work the way I said?
    * Is the Hide page correct?
    * Hundred Fists testing? - Has anyone repeated it since the discovery of the overall delay cap?
    * Is the Innin page correct?
    * Jump page formula, is it correct? Where is the testing?
    * What the shit do all those pieces of gear do to Jump?
    * Could someone take a look at the Scavenge page? Has anyone ever found anything worth having with that JA?
    * Is the Steal page correct? Should anything be added?
    * Can someone check the Super Jump page please? Remove some verification tags and change stuff that's wrong if there is any?

    Skipped: The Blood Pact pages, Burst Affinity, and Diffusion.

    I'm going to keep updating this post as I run across new things.

  7. #47
    First invited, last in the zone.
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,449
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Lakshmi

    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    * Plenilune Embrace needs a Cure formula
    * Cure VI needs a solid Cure formula
    * No one has verified what the Impetus bonus on MNK +1 body is.

    I'm going to keep updating this post as I run across new things.

    Plenilune Embrace is Cure V with a constant of 230, rather than 330. (Magic Fruit's is 130.)

    Soft caps are also offset by 100 from Cure V / Magic Fruit.

  8. #48
    They're coming to take me away. Ha Ha!
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,647
    BG Level
    7

    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    No, the best way to do it is just to use Aeolian Edge at the same TP twice, once with and once without the collar. I got 5 FMs, unequipped my weapon to reset TP, targetted a different mob, put the weapon back on, did Reverse Flourish for 100TP exactly, and Aeolian Edged. It was the same damage, so Rancor collar does not affect MAB, fTP, or TP Bonus.

    The only thing I've found for sure that it does so far is Damage Taken +10%.
    Some silly things to test with Rancor Collar:

    See if that 10% Damage taken (or maybe damage taken in general) is stored and unleashed into something. An example of the precedent for this mechanic would be Afflatus Misery's boost to Banish spells.

    Get KO'd by a mob while wearing the collar, Raise up and attack that same mob with various types of attacks and see if the damage is more than expected. No precedent for this mechanic unless you count Tonberry Hate. Perhaps SE wants us to have a piece specifically for Zombie Fights O.o

  9. #49
    BG Content
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    16,861
    BG Level
    9
    FFXI Server
    Lakshmi
    Blog Entries
    1

    I'm probably going to cleave Tonberries in Konschtat tonight (until Firesday, and then do Flans), so I can at least build a shitton of Tonberry hate and figure out if the Acc rumor is correct. Does anyone know if Tonberries have to be claimed Red when they die in order for you to get hate?

    When I was parsing my last Collar test, I didn't hit for above the max predicted damage for my daggers

    Okay, so I tested the Accuracy thing before I left Abyssea - Konschtat. No go. It still only gives 6 Acc and no visible stats. Everyone's Grudge did 2761 damage (with Collar on, so that's 110% I presume), meaning I killed 502 Tonberries with it on. There were three situations where I got Throat Stabbed, but the first time Stoneskin saved me, the second time I appear to have 50% resisted (it's magic damage, after all), and the third time it outright killed me.

    Bottom line is, I spent a whole night with this thing on Aeolian Edging and all I know is that it makes things hit me harder.

  10. #50
    An exploitable mess of a card game
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    13,252
    BG Level
    9
    FFXIV Character
    Gouka Mekkyaku
    FFXIV Server
    Gilgamesh
    FFXI Server
    Diabolos

    Has anyone tested the effect of Wind QD on Angon?

  11. #51
    Relic Shield
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,783
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Carbuncle

    has anyone tested the base crit rate of victory smite i know ukko's was listed at 30%.

  12. #52
    BG Content
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    16,861
    BG Level
    9
    FFXI Server
    Lakshmi
    Blog Entries
    1

    I don't think they have. If you wanted to try, the easiest way would be to put on RR/GH/SS for a 75% crit rate. Melee one monster down low, engage another and build about 100 TP, WS the low HP mob (should only be 1 hit) and see if it crits. If you can get non-crits with a 75% crit rate, put on SQ instead of SS and try with an 85% crit rate.

  13. #53
    Relic Shield
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,783
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Carbuncle

    what would be a decent sample size for that i can test it in a hour or so

  14. #54
    BG Content
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    16,861
    BG Level
    9
    FFXI Server
    Lakshmi
    Blog Entries
    1

    Quote Originally Posted by Gokku View Post
    what would be a decent sample size for that i can test it in a hour or so
    It shouldn't take long to ballpark it.

    As soon as you get a non-crit, bump your crit rate up and keep going. For instance:
    * 75% Crit rate, see a non-crit pretty quickly (~within 10) -> Put on SQ instead of SS.
    * 75% Crit rate, takes a while to see a non-crit (~within 20) -> Use Rancor Collar.
    * If you keep getting crits with RR/GH, drop GH down to SQ and see how that goes.

    If you can do 50 crit Victory Smites in a row without seeing a non-crit, you can be fairly sure you're within 5% of a 100% crit rate. For "proof" that you're at or within 1% of a 100% crit rate (aka, you've found the crit rate boost), you need to do about 300 crit Victory Smites in a row. For what you're asking though, it seems like within 5% should be good enough.

    Obviously don't use Impetus or anything, and keep any crit rate gear locked either on or off. Also, you need to watch your TP return. Missing the first hit would maybe make it look like a non-crit.

  15. #55
    Relic Shield
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,783
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Carbuncle

    should i drop merits out of crit and make sure rancor is off also?

  16. #56
    BG Content
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    16,861
    BG Level
    9
    FFXI Server
    Lakshmi
    Blog Entries
    1

    Quote Originally Posted by Gokku View Post
    should i drop merits out of crit and make sure rancor is off also?
    Make sure Rancor is off (unless you want its +5% for the point you're testing), but it's fine to leave crit merits on. I assume you're going to be satisfied to get the crit rate within 100%? Also, really try to avoid over-TPing if possible, but 10-20 TP over probably isn't going to kill you because you're looking for negative evidence (non-crits). It's just going to make it harder for you to find what you're looking for.

  17. #57
    Masamune
    Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    It shouldn't take long to ballpark it. As soon as you get a non-crit, bump your crit rate up and keep going. [...]
    If you can do 50 crit WSs in a row without seeing a non-crit, you can be fairly sure you're within 5% of a 100% crit rate. For "proof" that you're at or within 1% of a 100% crit rate (aka, you've found the crit rate boost), you need to do about 300 crit WSs in a row. [...]
    I'm interested into that negative evidence theory, but i'm failing to reach that conclusion using standard error formula :s
    Can you develop please ?

    Also i think there is probably a flaw with that method and the WS description saying "Chance of critical hit varies with TP" :
    In practice, how one would be able to control rigorously his TP to be always the same ? impossible probably...
    That means testing with this method for a WS hypothetically having 30% base critrate @ 100TP is actually testing the WS critrate in the range 100-150TP depending of his overTPing ? In the case of crited Empy weapons, critrate%=f(TP) might have a high rising rate, meaning a test trying to eyeball a critrate within less than 5% while the WS might have increased +5% @ 120TP is problematic right ?

  18. #58
    BG Content
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    16,861
    BG Level
    9
    FFXI Server
    Lakshmi
    Blog Entries
    1

    Rather than use an error formula, I think of it like this:

    If you're really at a 99% Critical Hit rate, what are the odds of getting 305 consecutive critical hits? :: .99^305 = 4.7%

    In theory, you'd have to also include other states for a real error measure, like "what are the odds of getting 305 consecutive critical hits if your crit rate is really 98%?" :: .98^305 = 0.21%

    However, you can see that the probability drops off hugely. All of the "what if it's really 97%/96%/etc." added up still probably stay below 5%. As such, I'm confident that the probability of critical hitting 305 times in a row with a less than 100% crit rate is 5% or less.

    It's easier to prove that you're "not at 100%" than "at 35%" for instance, but our error calculations generally make assumptions of normality that aren't valid with extremely high or low p. You need 350 samples to get a test to +/- 5% with a p of 35%. You need 305 samples to get a test to +/- 1% with a p of 100%. Not only that, but as soon as you get a non-crit you know that you're not at 100% and can abort further testing at that data point. It saves a lot of time. And yes, if you were going for +/- 1% you would need a precise TP value, but it sounds like he's just going for an approximation. Plus, because you're just looking for negative evidence, even if he doesn't get the TP value precisely every time that doesn't mean he'll never see a non-crit, it just means that the resolution of the test goes down. For instance, if he consistently overTP'ed to 120 and WSed with a 1% higher crit rate than normal, he would expect to overestimate crit rate by 1%. With a reasonable attention to detail and effort, I'd honestly expect flooring to take care of this mostly.

    The JP results indicate that Hi is 15%/20%/25% and people have suggested VS/Ukko's are higher (though they're likely wrong), so I'm not worried about the TP mod between 100 and 300TP overcoming the base boost through over-TPing.

  19. #59
    Masamune
    Guest

    Ok thanks, i understand better. Still since what he want to test he just a gross approximation, i don't think w/e results he find would be wiki-able.

    I meant if for example he manages to exclude 25% and 35% @ 100ish TP with a range of [24%;34%], his conclusion would be ~30% @ 100TP. Ok. But given the +/-5% + error from overTPing and crit%=f(TP), would easily mean that range is actually larger than that, ie INCLUDING 25% and 35%...

    Am i correct there or did i miss something?

  20. #60
    BG Content
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    16,861
    BG Level
    9
    FFXI Server
    Lakshmi
    Blog Entries
    1

    If he has a 75% base crit rate (GH/RR) and observes a single non-crit on weaponskill, the 100TP Critical Hit Rate is <25% regardless what TP he went at. If he has an 80% base crit rate (GH/RR/Rancor) and observes a single non-crit on weaponskill, the 100TP Critical Hit rate is <20% regardless what TP he went at. etc. This is true even if it only takes him 5 WSs to get a non-crit.

    He should have no problem setting a max 100TP crit rate with this method. It's really just a superior way to determine crit rate.

    If he's 5% off of a 100% crit rate, on average we'd expect it to take 20 WSs for him to see a non-crit. This is much better than the time it takes to get a 95% confidence interval around, for instance, a 35% crit rate.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

  • Decrease Size
    Increase Size
  • Remove Text Formatting
  • Insert Link Insert Image Insert Video
  • Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
  • Insert NSFW Tag
  • Insert Spoiler Tag