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  1. #101
    The Once and Future Wamoura
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Blazing Bound works for Voragaens. Unless it's some kind of three-way relationship with another monster type that we don't know about yet, just testing it against Empty should be enough, right?
    Yeah, I don't see why not, and I had planned to use Blazing Bound. Anyways, this has become annoying because I am colourblind and there are people farming shit in Promyvion for some reason. I guess I could have/should have done this on the test server but I am way lazy.

    Oddities and curiosities: Wanderers on the first floor of Promyvion - Holla have an INT of 23-24 (sample size of 5! before being forced out). On the first floor of Promyvion - Mea, every Wanderer has had 23 INT (10 out of 10 Wanderers agree, so on with Blazing Bound).
    Edit: Bleh, now that I've done w/o head testing I'm seeing some come up with 24 INT in Mea.
    Wanderers on the first floor of Promyvion - Mea have between 475 and 500 HP.


    Blazing Bound ahoy! [Windsday, so no chance of weather proc]

    Relevant stats; 79 INT, 12 MDB vs 23 INT

    w/ AF1 head:
    Spoiler: show
    498
    498
    498
    498
    496 (24 INT?)
    498
    498
    498
    496


    Relevant stats; 76 INT, 12 MDB vs 23-24 INT

    w/o AF1 head:
    Spoiler: show
    489
    489
    491
    491
    489
    245 (1/2 resist?)
    491
    489
    491


    I tried using a Fire-based Wanderer to see if I could glean anything, but with and without AF1 head, I did 30 damage.

    For one wind-based Weeper of unknown Intelligence: w/ AF1 head: 449; w/o AF1 head: 442

    Fun Promyvion facts:
    Spoiler: show
    Wanderers on the first floor of any Promyvion have an INT value of 23 or 24. They have an HP value of somewhere around 490-495.
    The elemental resistance of Empty is ridiculous. Casting thunder v thunder or thunder v stone for example will result in a 1/16 resist. There is no bonus for casting an approriate element in terms of damage (such as thunder v water), but maybe an increase in magic accuracy.
    Weepers have a vast range of stats, going from 24~57 INT on the first floor alone.
    I found a Craver with 56~59 INT on the first floor, so it's possible the elemental affinity of the Empty influences the stats.
    Cravers (and I suspect Gorgers and Thinkers) on the first floor seem to be lotto pops from Wanderers.


    In retrospect, Strays might have been a better choice. I'll do a quick test of them after a few more Wanderers.

    OK i'm really tired of waiting for repops so I'm gonna move to Strays with my awesome sample size of 18 Wanderers.

    bleh Strays have 23-24 INT too, I was hoping they might be a singular level

    Strays, 23-24 INT vs 79 INT (AF1 head) [Iceday]
    Spoiler: show
    496
    247 (half?)
    248 (waugh)
    498
    496
    498
    496
    247 (lol)
    498
    498


    Strays, 23-24 INT, vs 76 INT (no AF1) [Iceday]
    Spoiler: show
    491
    489
    489
    489
    491
    491
    491
    491
    491
    491


    Conclusion:
    w/ AF1 head & 79 INT vs 23-24 INT

    498 - 11
    496 - 5
    248 - 1
    247 - 2

    w/o AF1 head & 76 INT vs 23-24 INT

    491 - 11
    489 - 7
    245 - 1

    So, ~7 damage difference for 3 INT or correlation? I have no idea, and I have no idea why I just wasted my time doing this.

  2. #102
    First invited, last in the zone.
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    When you're testing something like that, you want to keep stats the same. So if the hat has 3 int, leave one of your ring slots blank when using the hat, and then put a 3 int ring in there when you're not.

  3. #103
    Ridill
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    Also would've been somewhat faster to just find a higher lvl one and just nuke sleep it. Aside from any resist as long as you kept your other stats the same any dmg difference would have to be from monster correlation

  4. #104
    The Once and Future Wamoura
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foldypaws View Post
    When you're testing something like that, you want to keep stats the same. So if the hat has 3 int, leave one of your ring slots blank when using the hat, and then put a 3 int ring in there when you're not.
    THIS IS WHY I'M NOT ALLOWED TO TEST THINGS THAT DID NOT EVEN OCCUR TO ME

    why am i retarded. ok in the past 30s:

    Idle Wanderer w/o AF1: 349
    Idle Wanderer w/ AF1: 349

    No correlation.

  5. #105
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    I think we should look into reconfiguring the critical hit rate formula given that we have two means of reducing an enemy's critical hit evasion. Currently, our formula makes no mention of the mob's evasion, so how do we account for this element? Currently, we assume that critical evasion +/- is a straight critical hit rate bonus or penalty. However, there might be an existing "Mob Critical Evasion." The consequences and concerns of its existence are as follows:
    - How would mob critical evasion relate to the formula?
    - Do all mobs have the same critical evasion rate?

  6. #106
    Masamune
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    Maybe something like:

    Mob's criteva = f(mob's AGI) + CritEvaGears
    Player's critaccu = f(DEX)

    ...and then apply same formula as for hitrate ?

  7. #107
    Masamune
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    i just found this on main post:
    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth
    Does the fixed critical rate bonus only applied to the first hit of the WS?
    Just as a note for testing this, I tried to do something related using low level monsters that cast Utsusemi, and you can't isolate the first hit that way. Your first hit after shadows are consumed returns full TP and probably gets all the normal bonuses.
    The answer is straight : no, applies to all hits. Proof is within my RaginRush tests where i recorded additional hits dmg when main WShit missed: those additional WShits could be categorized between normal and crited hits.

    final WScritrate = WScritBonus + naturalPlayerCritrate
    where:
    WScritBonus = f(TP) and maybe also #WShits...
    naturalPlayerCritrate = CritMerits + f'(dDEX) + CritRateGears

  8. #108
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    Yeah, I've since discovered the same thing (and CDF's review of your results). I just can't edit the OP and delete it anymore.

    I think I "finished" working out the Zanshin tier structure, though I should really do another sample at level 20 to make sure there isn't a tier upgrade between 20 and 37. I doubt there is, considering the level 74 parse. I tossed Amir Korazin on and am going to go shopping now, so I can do a quick low-level parse when I get back.

    I need one other person to help me test Tranquil Heart tier/progression on the test server.

    How do we feel about assuming that Elemental Celerity follows the same progression as Divine Benison (10% per level?) and just putting a note on the page that it's all assumed. I still haven't been able to figure out a way to test this reliably.

    Edit: I just did the Elemental Celerity thing. If anyone disagrees, feel free to revert it.

  9. #109
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    I thought you had mod status to edit that?

    For elemental celerity, a possible test would involve three people: 50-90BLM and RDM/BLM

    Have each do opposing elemental DOT. Eventually, the BLM should match or exceed the RDM's cast speed. One or the other wearing off should show which landed first.

  10. #110
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    I guess I don't get it. How would we make them cast at exactly the same time? How would watching elemental DOT wear off be superior to one-shotting L0 mobs by casting the same spell?

  11. #111
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    AutoExec should make them cast at the same time. It's not superior other than the fact that the mob lives (Which may or may not affect the test). I'm not sure why either of those is not reliable if you can force the cast at the same time (Which I assume is how you did the Divine Benson test?).

  12. #112
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    Divine Benison give Fast Cast, so I just used the recast while weakened/Hasso'd to figure out the tiers.

    Figuring out how to force them to cast at the same time had been the problem thus far. I guess AutoExec with something like "wait 5;Flare;" tied to Stun being cast (can you do that?) or a time of day would work.

  13. #113
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    Time of day or even chat works (AE lets you react to player chat).

  14. #114
    TSwiftie
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    When was the last time someone re-tested the fSTR function? With the higher weapon ranks available, large STR - VIT differences can exist. Is fSTR still raised by 1 DMG every ~4 STR? (That's not counting something could have changed with all the damage calculation changes over the years.)

    fSTR2 seems easier to test and might be a good starting point~

  15. #115
    Ridill
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    That reminds me... I've wondered if anyone has even bothered to test if any newer blus spells have a different fstr cap than well pretty much all of them have

  16. #116
    Masamune
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirschy View Post
    When was the last time someone re-tested the fSTR function? With the higher weapon ranks available, large STR - VIT differences can exist. Is fSTR still raised by 1 DMG every ~4 STR? (That's not counting something could have changed with all the damage calculation changes over the years.)

    fSTR2 seems easier to test and might be a good starting point~
    2 years late, but yea i were wondering same thing as you... sadly i don't have any ranged job to test fSTR2 with.

  17. #117
    xXNyteFyreXx420Sharingan
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    fSTR2 still functions as expected at a value of 44, tested with Feather Storm. Used Choke to set level 0 mob VIT to 1 then casted with 84 and 85 STR.

    Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut the fSTR2 cap of 44 for ranged BLU spells appears to have been increased based on an additional test I did. Maximum noncrit damage I've seen with 91 AGI is 546 damage, so...

    D cap for Featherstorm = 17

    (17+x+floor(floor(91*0.3)*0.85))*2.0*3.0=546 suggests an fSTR2 cap of 52.

    EDIT: Wait, I knew that... fSTR cap for BLU spells has increased every 5 levels since 75, so we got 4 additional fSTR over the course of the increases. No increase at 99 obviously.

    Anyway, fSTR2 seems to be working as expected And time for me to update the wiki...

  18. #118
    Hydra
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    Is it true that Primeval Brew gives "Damage Taken -90%" ? (source: otherwiki page)

    I've wondered for a long time what form of Magic Defence you gain from brew, whether MDB or MDT, but I guess that on it's own could probably account for the damage reduction, along with 999 INT and high resist rates.

    Has anyone tested whether the reduction is -230/256 or -231/256 ?

    Finding this out would be pretty helpful for determining spell minimum D values, which should be helpful for other things.

    I'm hoping to test it on a sabotender NM in Aby Altepa, but I haven't seen Cuijatender up on the test server yet...

  19. #119
    TSwiftie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mougurijin View Post
    Is it true that Primeval Brew gives "Damage Taken -90%" ? (source: otherwiki page)

    I've wondered for a long time what form of Magic Defence you gain from brew, whether MDB or MDT, but I guess that on it's own could probably account for the damage reduction, along with 999 INT and high resist rates.

    Has anyone tested whether the reduction is -230/256 or -231/256 ?

    Finding this out would be pretty helpful for determining spell minimum D values, which should be helpful for other things.

    I'm hoping to test it on a sabotender NM in Aby Altepa, but I haven't seen Cuijatender up on the test server yet...
    I've seen it tested a few times to be around 90%, it's probably something like 87.5%

  20. #120
    Hydra
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    Hmm okay, thanks.
    I think I need a more accurate number so I need to figure out how to make Cuijatender spawn...
    Do you just kill the mandies near where he's supposed to pop?

    Edit:
    Grrr, I've killed over a hundred mandies, but Cuijatender still hasn't spawned -- supposedly he's just a 15-20 min. timed spawn NM ?
    I realised Emperador de Altepa would probably work better for this test, so I farmed both his pop items too...
    But then I find out his ??? isn't actually up anyway...
    So annoying... I wish I understood what is going on...

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