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  1. #161
    Ridill
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    Thought that was already tested... anyways I've always found it rather helpful to get a 3rd character if possibly to do your pulling and possibly any buffing. Even if you don't in order to minimize weird stuff I'll often try something bigger to get close to that pull emnity first. This is nice because you know both test characters are starting off with the same hate and you can do something like stun/flash to get over the pullers hate. With it balanced like that you can test easy. Also pulling is effected by -emnity gear so that can help with lower stuff if you want.

    Also thanks for the headsup on the emnity changes.... still haven't caught up with the last ones lol

  2. #162
    E. Body
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    Has anyone tested the ilvl enmity changes?

    Was going to make a new thread about it, but figured I'd raise the question here first. I ask mainly because I've been healing Skirmish v3 here and there on Sch, and I've been pulling hate pretty badly on some NMs with cures. I'm not sure if this is specific to Sch, since it's preferred means of healing is with a non-ilvl weapon (Aurorastorm, Obi, Twilight Cape, Chatoyant Staff).

    The patch notes only mentioned that if you had -enmity, you'd lose more from taking damage, and +enmity you'd lose less when taking damage, but no mention if this was tied/scaled to your ilvl. Regardless of that, what dictates how your ilvl effects your enmity gain/loss? Job?

  3. #163
    Old Merits
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    Thing is, there weren't any Ilvl enmity changes.

    A quote of the relevant section of the update notes.
    Enmity generated from dealing damage has been adjusted.
    Enmity generated from dealing damage to enemies of level 100 or greater no longer accumulates as quickly.

    The "Enmity+X" and "Enmity-X" statistics found on equipment have undergone the following adjustments.
    Those receiving damage from a foe while wearing "Enmity-X" equipment will experience greater enmity reductions, while those wearing "Enmity+X" equipment will experience lesser enmity reductions.
    So the changes are only for dmg dealt enmity and purely based on mob level, and not player ilvl.

    If you're having more enmity problems than before, it should be because the DDs are generating less enmity than before.

    As for testing, I've done a couple tests on dmg dealt. But I need to go get more samples and on higher level mobs. Which is a bitch cause taking any dmg at all screws everything.

    Weird thing though. I did a test just before the update on a lvl 100 mob. So, to see what they did in the update, I went and tested again.. but there was no difference in CE... Either they did something to VE, or, there's just so little difference at lvl 100 it wasn't visible in my samples. Maybe they made the enmity mod decline faster starting at lvl 100?

  4. #164
    E. Body
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    Ah okay. I coulda swore I saw a line in the update notes saying "Enmity values are now adjusted based on your ilvl." or some such nonsense. Prolly just thought I saw it from their earlier comments about adjusting enmity values at a high ilvl range.

    The pulling was prolly just due to the numerous stun/terror/damage blocking effects then, and I didn't notice the lack of damage being done. Thanks much Martel, I'm sure you'll find some crazy ass way of figuring out what they've changed with it all.

  5. #165
    Old Odin
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    What needs to be tested thread

    on a general note the enmity difference is quiet noticeable when melees take chunks of big damage and you aoe heal as sch. you will pull more hate now because melees produce less enmity and loose more if they get hit by AoE moves when not haveing any enmity gear on or - enmity. Solved the issue by incorporateing my tupsimati instead of chatoyant while healing with aurorastorm up. rarely pulled hate since in skirmish3, only thing i loose is the weather bonus for 1000+ cure 4 and get now 900 + but draw not much enmity towards myself

    could see enmity become an issue in delve 2 when stuns are useless and melees have to eat big chunks of damage, not to mention the hate reste moves yumcax and bird sport (correct me if i am wrong)

  6. #166
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    It should be noted that while they changed things to let us affect CE loss with gear, they didn't say that the base CE loss rates were changed. So unless your melee are wearing emnity- gear, they should be losing the same CE as before. And less if they have any enmity+ on. Barring glitches/ninja changes. EDIT:A little rereading and I notice you pretty much said this. Pardon.

    I don't believe Yumcax or Hurkan have any hate reset moves. I've tanked both with stable hate for extended periods. In yumcax's case, extremely extended. <,<

    But Yumcax did tend to freaking kill you. Usually with doom. Tends to cause hate issues. Looking forward to Yumcax delve, honestly. Time to put that perfect cursna set to work! XD

    Also, very clever to use Tupsimati as a cure enmity- tool.

    What kinda enmity- did you have on cures before changing to Tupsimati? I did several skirmish III runs shortly after the update, and curaga spammed like nothing else on my WHM alt. I pretty much only pulled hate if I curaga 3+'d seconds after pull. Well, or after the DD's ate ballistic kick. lol. Iirc, the only enmity- advantage WHM has over SCH is cureV. But I was largely curaga spamming. Which should be equivalent enmity per HP cured to aoe'd cure IV.

  7. #167
    Old Odin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martel View Post
    It should be noted that while they changed things to let us affect CE loss with gear, they didn't say that the base CE loss rates were changed. So unless your melee are wearing emnity- gear, they should be losing the same CE as before. And less if they have any enmity+ on. Barring glitches/ninja changes. EDIT:A little rereading and I notice you pretty much said this. Pardon.

    I don't believe Yumcax or Hurkan have any hate reset moves. I've tanked both with stable hate for extended periods. In yumcax's case, extremely extended. <,<

    But Yumcax did tend to freaking kill you. Usually with doom. Tends to cause hate issues. Looking forward to Yumcax delve, honestly. Time to put that perfect cursna set to work! XD

    Also, very clever to use Tupsimati as a cure enmity- tool.

    What kinda enmity- did you have on cures before changing to Tupsimati? I did several skirmish III runs shortly after the update, and curaga spammed like nothing else on my WHM alt. I pretty much only pulled hate if I curaga 3+'d seconds after pull. Well, or after the DD's ate ballistic kick. lol. Iirc, the only enmity- advantage WHM has over SCH is cureV. But I was largely curaga spamming. Which should be equivalent enmity per HP cured to aoe'd cure IV.
    Didnt have much -enmity beforehand like maybe -24~. my cureset was more focused towards fastercasting/recasts, with tupsimati its "-44 enmity". I could get in more, but I would loose Twilight cape/Korin obi bonuses and cure cast/recast times. could also reach the same amount of -enmity if I would just use tamaxchi, but I have no inventory to carry more gear around. I run around with 78/80 gear. There is everythign fit in from enhancing, to fast cast, to cureing, to debuff, to nukeing (not every obi tough). I have made my gearset pritty compact and have tossed stings that only give little benefit out of the window to fit everything in.

    I have to note tough my experience on skirmish 3 is based around PUGs, so I cant vouch for the quality of the melees, but they were takeing quiet alot of damage (do not know if they swaped damage taken/hybrid gears etc), and quiet alot AoE of it, makeing me sometimes spam Accessions Cure IV 2-3 2-3 times in successions (rarely).

  8. #168
    Old Merits
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    Hmmm. Well, my DD were certainly high end.

    I was curing in -46 enmity. But since I wasn't having any enmity issues, I just redid my cure sets for more healing skill. Freed up a fair bit of inv too. Hope that doesn't come back and bite me in the ass. <,<;

  9. #169
    Ridill
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    Well in a way this is kinda what the game is supposed to be like. A few DDs shouldn't be able to eat dmg like tomorrow bleeding hate out without regard to their own enmity and expect a healer to be able to spam curagas all over them without a good -enmity set and not take hate

  10. #170
    Old Odin
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    not saying i am against it dasva. would actually enforce even more enmity lost, just not to the point of melees not being able to tank.

  11. #171
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    I can see it now.... The future of FFXI, a PLD in every event! lol

  12. #172
    Ridill
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    Or just less than subpar DDs. Maybe some +enmity gear. Maybe healers with -emnity. brds meritting dirge/sirvent! /nin for everyone!

  13. #173
    Old Odin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martel View Post
    I can see it now.... The future of FFXI, a PLD in every event! lol
    i really dont want that, 14 showed me that waiting on tanks ( most shitty) forever is not good game design, especially when you dont have a duty finder like in 11.
    needing more effort yes, obsoleting melee tanking no thx

  14. #174
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    Anything on how DRK's Consume Mana works yet?

    Because I'm not even convinced it does anything...

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