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  1. #1
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    What needs to be tested thread

    Purpose: Compile unsolved questions about game mechanics that have not been answered.

    Discussion will precede with formatting discussion and compilation of questions. To the former, do you all believe we need formatting beyond What/When/How/Why/Do"? Do" is a weird one because you can always rephrase statements using "How", but I think it's most natural for people to use "do" as in the sentence "Does weapon base damage affect BLU spells?" as opposed to "How does weapon base damage affect BLU spells?". We should probably keep a policy of scratching out rather than deleting answered questions. At least until it's been scratched out for about 1-3 weeks or so.

    Player Raw Stats (HP/STR/DEX.../CHR)

    Universal Formulas
    Does WSC correction stay at 0.85 at lvl 90?
    Tested this a few times to still be .85. Easiest to use Test#1 @ http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/101...=1#post4331310 - Kirschy

    Is the "2ndary randomizer effect" applied to BaseDMG ? or after normal damage formula have been fully calculated, like a damage multiplier ? Question is asked because way too much proofs around proving that doesnot apply to pDIF ! (or barely close).

    Magic WSs: recent tests showed fINT=0 make equation match data for WSs not having INT as mod => Question : retest INT-modded WSs with a fINT=0 ? (including older WSs)

    Order in calculating physical damage regarding the dmg type certain mobs are weak to ? (compared to gorget/belt + WSdmg+x% + Relic90WSdmg% etc...)

    Weaponskill/Skillchains
    What % critical hit rate bonus is given by:
    Drakesbane http://robonosto.blogspot.com/2010/0...ate-bonus.html
    Raging Rush
    Victory Smite
    Ukko's Fury
    Evisceration (Test @ Allak THF forum)
    Chant du Cygne

    Does the fixed critical rate bonus only applied to the first hit of the WS?
    Just as a note for testing this, I tried to do something related using low level monsters that cast Utsusemi, and you can't isolate the first hit that way. Your first hit after shadows are consumed returns full TP and probably gets all the normal bonuses. - Byrth

    Does Weaponskill Critical Hit rate cap at 50%?

    * Do level 3 skillchains deal one of four types of damage at random, or is it always Light/Dark? *
    It appears level 3 skillchains can take any of the four elements of damage they are composed of. http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/102584-Random-Question-Thread-XIX-Welcome-to-Flavor-Country?p=4504694&viewfull=1#post4504694 - Byrth

    Equipment
    Weapon + Grip
    Relics additional Effect procrate from the LVL75,80,85&90 versions ?
    http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/907...=1#post4506162 -Kirschy

    Do Empyrean Weapons have +25% WSdmg boost like relicsWSs90 ?

    Empyrean Weapons added double damage Rate% on lvl85/90 ?

    is there any controlled parses for Magian Weapons +2 's DA, OA2 and OA4 Rate% ? Are they the same among types of weapons ?

    Ranged/Ammo

    Helm

    Neck

    Earring

    Body

    Hands

    Rings

    Back

    Waist

    Legs

    Feet

    Mob RAW Stats (VIT/AGI/INT/MND/Defense/Evasion/MdB)

    Mob Abilities

    Player Abilities
    What is the % Critical Hit rate bonus from Striking Flourish?
    What is the critical hit rate % from Blood Rage ? Seen 20%ish tested somewhere i don't remember - Masa
    What is Retaliation's proc rate, or what affects it?
    How does Fan Dance interact with -PDT?
    Is our assumption about how Saber Dance works correct?

    Pet Abilities

    Job Traits
    What are the different categories of Double Attack, and do they have caps?
    For instance, Saber Dance, which is ostensibly +25%/+20%/+15%/+10%/+5% Double Attack to each hand for the first/second/third/fourth/fifth minute of its duration respectively, does not play nicely with the Double Attack trait from /WAR. A DNC/WAR with Saber Dance up and no DA gear has about a 20% DA rate, as does a DNC/MNK with Saber Dance up and no DA gear. With Double Attack gear, they can both get up to a ~33% Double Attack rate. So what cap is Saber Dance hitting, and are there more?

    Does Fencer have Tiers ?
    http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103...=1#post4506548 - Xera
    Does DRG get Accuracy Bonus 4 and RNG tier5 ?

    Does SAM get Zanshin V @ lvl80 ?

    Does RDM get MaB 3 @ lvl88 or at a lower lvl ?

    Are there Conserve MP Tiers?

    Are there Conserve TP Tiers?

    Magic

    Black Magic

    White Magic

    Blue Magic
    Asuran Claws STR mod% ?
    SubZero Smash STR% & VIT% ?
    BlazingBound, AcridStram, Leafstorm, ChargedWhisker & Regurgitation INT% ?

    Songs

    Summoning Magic

    Ninjutsu

  2. #2
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    Masamune had the idea of changing the format to

    Weaponskill
    Equipment (Helm, Body, etc)
    Mob Stats
    Mob Abilities
    Mob Spells? (Or compile under abilities)
    Abilities
    Traits
    Magic (White Magic, Black Magic, Songs, Blue Magic, Ninjutsu)

    What do you guys think?

  3. #3
    BG Content
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    Apart from just posting this and scratching stuff out, we should probably try to add it to the wiki somehow. Also, how do we scratch stuff out? Strikethrough doesn't seem to work anymore.

  4. #4
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    I thought it still existed. Just use stars for things tested then.

  5. #5
    TSwiftie
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    Fenrir

    I know there's some testing on Subtle Blow cap, dAGI vs TP gain, Penance, Yonin's SB, and Myoshu. How much good testing do we have, and is there any testing where they're stacked together?

  6. #6
    CoP Dynamis
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    Tested all that myself, Myoshu is simply +10 subtle blow, doesn't go beyond 50 cap. Reduction from AGI is (dAGI+25)/2% (or at least very close), caps at 50% too, they're multiplicative and capping both results in 75% reduction, don't know which order they're calculated. Yonin doesn't give subtle blow? Penance is a 25% reduction, Yurin is 10%, I assume those two don't stack with each other since they're the same debuff ('Inhibit TP'), but they interacted as expected with differing amounts of subtle blow and AGI. Unfortunately I don't seem to have detailed results from most tests saved anywhere, other than the AGI tests, linked below. Could reproduce these at a later point if so desired, but will be busy for a bit with other things. Testing was done using Charm and <pettp>.

    Relevant posts (by me, Byrthnoth had a few as well, should be easy to find in the same thread): 1 2 3 4 5

  7. #7
    TSwiftie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rena View Post
    Tested all that myself, Myoshu is simply +10 subtle blow, doesn't go beyond 50 cap. Reduction from AGI is (dAGI+25)/2% (or at least very close), caps at 50% too, they're multiplicative and capping both results in 75% reduction, don't know which order they're calculated. Yonin doesn't give subtle blow? Penance is a 25% reduction, Yurin is 10%, I assume those two don't stack with each other since they're the same debuff ('Inhibit TP'), but they interacted as expected with differing amounts of subtle blow and AGI. Unfortunately I don't seem to have detailed results from most tests saved anywhere, other than the AGI tests, linked below. Could reproduce these at a later point if so desired, but will be busy for a bit with other things. Testing was done using Charm and <pettp>.

    Relevant posts (by me, Byrthnoth had a few as well, should be easy to find in the same thread): 1 2 3 4 5
    Thanks! Thats what I was looking for. And I meant Yurin, not Yonin -_- We should get some of those up on the other thread. I might try to run some regression testing just for record keeping sake too.

  8. #8
    CoP Dynamis
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    Asuran Claws STR mod% ?
    SubZero Smash STR% & VIT% ?
    Studio Gobli has Sub-zero Smash listed as 60% VIT, 2 fTP at 0 TP (other values unknown). Asuran Claws is listed with 0.625 fTP and a ?? DEX mod, assuming nobody cared to complete tests for something so useless.

  9. #9
    Groinlonger
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    I did a double check on some on the subtle blow testing on stuff in Jugner Forest. Federation Knife was used on 90 NIN/BST resulting in 8 base TP per strike to the mob. Had over 130 AGI for every test, ensuring dAGI was capped. I have 5 Subtle Blow merits, thus I started at 30 Subtle Blow.

    Code:
    Subtle Blow	Myoshu	Yurin	Mob TP Gain
    30		X	X	2.8
    40		X	X	2.4
    50		X	X	2.0
    59		X	X	2.0
    59		O	X	2.0
    30		O	X	2.4
    40		O	X	2.0
    59		X	O	1.8
    Falls in line with everything Rena said.

  10. #10
    The Tower
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    Moved the skillchain testing to advanced, thread here.

  11. #11
    Masamune
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    I'm experiencing a problem while testing some mob families' stats.

    Most mobs are WAR or /war or both. War has also a Defense Bonus Trait tier1 trait.

    So testing WAR mobs under lvl76 always matched predictions.... but nowadays i'm starting to read there and there some rumors about WAR getting a tier2 Defense Bonus Trait somewhere at lvl76 or above.

    Not knowing exact level war gets this tier2 fucks up most predictions post-75 for mobs' VIT/def.
    Anyone has any solid testing ?

    I didnot check for AGI/evasion and MdB yet, but i really hope those traits' tiers are "updated"...

  12. #12
    BG Content
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    Well, WAR definitely has it at 90 and doesn't at 80. I don't have any jobs between 80 and 90 to test with though.

    Edit: Tested with Lowas of Laskhmi, WAR still doesn't have it at 83.

    Edit: Between 84 and 86. At 84 we don't have it. At 86 we do.

  13. #13
    Masamune
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    Perfect. So lvl85 or 86. I'm testing crawlers (Yellow, Green and Red) at the moment, got matching results for lvl87, 88, 89, and 93/94... with Def Bonus2.

  14. #14
    BG Content
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    It's level 86. Cloudsephy of Lakshmi let me sync to them this morning.

    Can someone test if Dragoon gets Attack Bonus II by 90?

  15. #15
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    We do not. DRG/BRD (84STR) and no weapon yielded 60 ATT (84/2 => 43 + 8 => 50 + 10 = 60).

  16. #16
    Masamune
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    How Magic Defense Bonus Trait can be tested ?

    Asking because i noticed RDM gets mdb @ lvl25 then 45 then poof ??

  17. #17
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    Brenner should work. If not, find a mob that casts the same spell a lot (Probably an element based mob to keep their range of spells limited) and test on a main with a gimp sub and then on a main with a normal sub.

  18. #18
    CoP Dynamis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masamune View Post
    How Magic Defense Bonus Trait can be tested ?

    Asking because i noticed RDM gets mdb @ lvl25 then 45 then poof ??
    Same thing with MAB, tier 1 at 20, tier 2 at 40, and didn't get tier 3 until 88 (according to wiki, anyways, not sure they get it at that exact level... point is, they didn't get it prior to level cap rise). As for testing the trait, I'd avoid PVP if possible, but any spell-casting mob should work. Personally I ususually use worms for anything involving taking magic damage.

  19. #19
    Masamune
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    Well... guess i can't test mdb trait on rdm with lvl90 only...

    On another topic, i'm wondering if the SubtleBlow formula is accurate enough to set a method extrapolating a monster's AGI directly ? Such method would also help determine if mob has SAM or /sam ?

  20. #20
    TSwiftie
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    Can do MDB testing similar to how I backcalculated WHM's next MDB trait:

    http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/101...=1#post4336897

    Just need to use another source of MDB to see how much the damage is being reduced.

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