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  1. #121
    D. Ring
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    With MAB atmas, so it's significantly less.

  2. #122
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    It's still fairly high. Ice spikes with beyond/ultimate/minikin only do 70 or so.

  3. #123
    Radsourceful

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    Moepapa Annulet is CHR, not AGI. Matches the ring icon.

  4. #124
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkmagi View Post
    With MAB atmas, so it's significantly less.
    Are you even sure MAB atmas effect those spikes to begin with? Though spikes were determined at time of casting making gear more or less static. Might be interesting to test. Even if it does and without it would still be rather significant amounts of spike dmg lol

  5. #125
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    I was doing 70 dmg spikes from nin af body when I was cleaving with MAB atmas on.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Though spikes were determined at time of casting making gear more or less static.
    Nope. I just cast Blaze spikes in idle gear, got a mob to hit me, 15 damage. Swapped into MAB gear, didn't recast spell, same mob took 21 points of damage. Added in a Vulcan's staff -> 23 damage.

    Spike damage is dynamic at time of hit.

    Edit: Doing the math, it seems like the base damage portion of the spell (based on INT) *is* determined at time of cast. Should have been doing 26 damage in the second gear set. MAB and Elemental Affinity are at time of strike.

    Double Edit: Yeah, INT portion is done at cast. 19 in idle gear when cast in nuking set, vs the 15 when cast in idle set.

  7. #127
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    EDIT: Just checked without buffs, it is INT on cast

  8. #128
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    Assuming wiki formulas are correct that's still ALOT higher than you can expect even from blaze spikes and going pretty much all out for it. Might be interesting to see what dmg this can go to lol. Next up AOE farming by spikes

  9. #129
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    Fwiw I've gotten 100+ damage reprisal spikes when playing around with Sanguine Blade atmas on pld when the spikes should have been in 20's.

  10. #130
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    here's a screenshot in case anyone wants to see it.

    Should be noted that i was casting noctohelix so it wasnt even a thunder staff and didnt have thunder atmas on.

  11. #131
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    Alternate test methods for reprisal/palisade?

    I've been debating doing some reprisal and palisade tests, recently. There's already been a few tests on the block rate increase, but I want to figure out if that increase is a static one, or if it interacts with current base block rate, shield skill, or shield size in any way.

    But I'd like to do so in a manner that preserves my sanity. Constantly starting and stopping the parse drives me nuts. And sometimes gets me killed when testing using lots of mobs.

    So I'm trying to find ways to figure out block rate increase from a continuous parse while reprisal or palisade is being spammed. I need some mathematical assistance in confirming if these ideas would(or wouldn't) work and be accurate enough to be useful. And how to make them work if they can be made to.

    Idea One:
    Parse a base block rate sample, then parse one while spamming reprisal as soon as the recast is ready every time. Take the block rate difference then.... and this is where my math skills fail me. If reprisal is down 33.3% of the time, could you apply that to the block rate difference to give us an idea of the reprisal only block rate.

    Like: Bdiff*1.333=reprisal B.Rate? Could this work, or am I just confusing myself and this wouldn't work? If this doesn't work, is there another way to use the block rate difference to find the reprisal only block rate?

    Idea Two
    While kparser does track reprisal and palisade now, it only displays avg dmg taken with and without the buff. Not an actual list of hits taken during the effect. So I can't use this the usual way, to find block rate.

    But is there a way to use the difference in avg dmg between the reprisal and non-reprisal hits to infer block rate?

    Since there's a relationship between AVG dmg, Block dmg reduction, and block rate it seems like I should be able to find the block rate difference using the other two factors... But I'm just not sure how.

    So, if anyone know how to make these work, or that they won't work, let me know. Or if anyone can think of other ways to get the info I'm after without parsing just during reprisal, I wanna hear about it.

  12. #132
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    If you tank the monsters backwards (no shield, but with the shield on), you can get the average damage/hit they do at your VIT/DEF. Then you can turn around and tank them forwards to get your average with shield blocks. If you know the % reduction that shield blocking gives you, you should be able to calculate the % block rate.

    The easier (and more accurate) answer is going to be to go through and parse it out using another program, or to ask Motenten to include that in the Defense Details tab.

  13. #133
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    Having a def. by time details tab, or a show details option, would be a lot easier for me. I dunno how difficult that'd be for motenten to implement

    I have a fair bit of shield dmg reduction testing lying around so i have the dmg- for several shields. If I end up needing to do it that way, how do you calculate block rate using avg dmg and block dmg-?

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martel View Post
    Having a def. by time details tab, or a show details option, would be a lot easier for me. I dunno how difficult that'd be for motenten to implement

    I have a fair bit of shield dmg reduction testing lying around so i have the dmg- for several shields. If I end up needing to do it that way, how do you calculate block rate using avg dmg and block dmg-?
    Block Rate = (Average without blocks - Average with Blocks) / (Average without blocks * % Reduction )
    Spoiler: show
    X% = Block Rate

    Average damage without Block*(1-X%) + Average damage without Block*(1 - % Reduction)*X% = Average Recorded
    Average damage without Block - Average Damage without Block*X% + Average Damage without Block*(1 - % Reduction)*X% = Average Recorded


    So if you know your shield blocks 30% of the damage and use these made-up numbers:
    Average : 200 per hit without shield blocks
    Average : 170 per hit without shield blocks

    If it was a 100% block rate, you'd expect 140 average damage taken. Instead it's 170, so it's a 50% block rate.
    (200-170)/(200*.3) = 50%

  15. #135
    Ridill
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    You could also get data faster by reducing the recast a bit. Can't have reprisal up 100% of the time but can get almost 2/3s the time. /sch helps if you don't have the gear/buffs etc for full -recast

  16. #136
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    Unfortunately, my sch is lvl 8, I think. But I can get a pretty decent recast anyway. The main thing was to confirm which methods would work for continuous parsing.

    Would this test method work alright on low per hit mobs?

    All the tests I've done on block dmg show a much higher dmg reduction value when testing on low per hit mobs, like mandies. For example, my initial test for gleaming shield on EM fear dearg put its block dmg- at 84%. Which is kinda freaking high for a size 3. Then my tests on mourning crawlers put it at about 70%.

    So, if I tested this on mandies, would it be inaccurate? Or would I just need to use the 70% value on them instead? Or would their dmg range be too squished to accurately reflect changes in block rate as avg dmg?

    If I'm right in thinking thsi would be an issue, then I'd need to test this on decent dmg mobs. Which limits how many I can tank at once, and means this will be very slow testing.

  17. #137
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    Honestly, I wouldn't recommend using that method at all regardless of the monster of choice. It's just theoretically possible, but I think it includes too many sources of error to be reliable. If you're going to do it, you'd have to do it on a higher damage monster to increase your resolution as much as possible.

    Random Fact:
    I don't know if this was known before and I was just out of the loop, but you can totally prevent Tunga from using Chainspell by stunning him and pushing past the 75/50/25% borders. Violent Flourish -> WS. It makes him a joke.

  18. #138
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    Get couple rdms. Have them use Spontaneity for each reprisal. Then you can have it up full time. We need a few other rdms on ragnarok to volunteer their time for the good of all plds.

    As for Palisade... You'd literally have to get a restore chest every minute to keep that up... bleh.

  19. #139
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sekundes View Post
    Get couple rdms. Have them use Spontaneity for each reprisal. Then you can have it up full time. We need a few other rdms on ragnarok to volunteer their time for the good of all plds.

    As for Palisade... You'd literally have to get a restore chest every minute to keep that up... bleh.
    Or just some cors

  20. #140
    Masamune
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    Yea kudo for your patience

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