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  1. #1
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    Random Facts Thread

    I would like to discuss this idea more. While I understand the argument that randomest question thread conflicts with this thread on an intuitive level, it might be helpful to have this because not all information is posted. If it's not posted, you cannot answer people in the randomest question thread. Of course the person who tested will have the answer, but if it's not communal, answers come slowly (And may not come at all). An example of this is looking back at Kirschy's Hidden Fastcast thread where she calculates the haste value for numerous items. Obviously, the haste value of Tiercel Necklace wouldn't warrant its own thread, but it is information we're missing out on if we don't examine it.

  2. #2
    CoP Dynamis
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    Liking the idea of such a thread, as I do have some stuff people may or may not find interesting that don't really fit in elsewhere. Going through notes I made on stuff I've got things that never got posted, and I was wondering where to put all that as well... a thread such as this would probably be the best place.

  3. #3
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    I can probably test it. All I need to do is get someone to time stamp my hits right?

  4. #4
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    Understood and thanks.

  5. #5
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    I see, that makes more sense now.

  6. #6
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    Rena might have found this out already (BA and BA+AF3 feet), but Wiki hasn't fixed it's page. I didn't compile this properly, but here is what it basically looked like:

    Code:
    Stat     No BA   BA    BA+AF3+2
    STR      100     100   95
    INT      100     100   110
    MAB      0       0     8
    Result   539     614   678
    Experiment
    * Just cast without BA > with BA > with BA and AF3+2 Feet
    * Check values against calculator since we know the formula for Leafstorm damage and the relevant data of the mob in question (Bees and Rabbits @ Gustaberg/Windy).
    Findings
    BA = fTP*1.216; You NEED the entire .216 to obtain certain values and you must keep them at the third decimal
    BA + AF3+2 Feet = fTP*1.22; I tried experimenting with 1.226 and 1.216 (and adding .01 to the resultant value) and neither of those worked, so it has to be 1.22

    I'm not sure how the +1 feet work, but if I had to guess, it's probably 0.218. The important thing to remember is that Wiki's "It's better than Stat+100!" rhetoric is bullshit.


    Edit: Rena's 2x WSC is probably correct.

  7. #7
    CoP Dynamis
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    BA doubles WSC; empyrean +1 feet changes multiplier to 2.05, +2 changes it to 2.1. During empyrean proc with +2 feet, it's 4.3. Presumably it should be 4.15 with empyrean proc with +1 feet, but I never tested that.

  8. #8
    Masamune
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    erm... maybe i should have noted that the tests i conducted for the blu spells were almost all (unless stated) with AF3+1 feet (without BA), maybe that fucked up numbers somehow ?

  9. #9
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    @Rena: That makes more sense than the straight fTP I posted. I'm not sure why that's (The feet effect) a 166% increase though.

    Edit: Checked with CW, it's definitely 2/2.1x WSC.

  10. #10
    Masamune
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    Mojo, If you go Gandiva, please make sure to test lvl85 and 90 version damage, since i'm not sure at all about the +25% dmg boost on Empyrean WSs (only data is for Namas).

  11. #11
    Groinlonger
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    I never noticed any damage boost from other Empyreon weapons. I think the damage boost was relic only.

  12. #12
    Masamune
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    Nice excellent test ! thank you.

    Does it apply only for the Relic WS, or any WS readied with the relic weapon lvl90 ?

  13. #13
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    Step Accuracy Tests

    Step Accuracy is based on melee Hit rate (shown below) and caps at 95%. The theory behind these tests is that I can tell how much "Step Accuracy" I have using the difference between my melee hit rate and my Step hit rate. Steps cannot be resisted, so I assume a binomial distribution works. This is a less ideal way to do it than checking monster defense and calculating my exact theoretical hit rate, but I was under quite a bit of pressure (from ze girlfreend) to go to bed when I was setting these tests up, so ya get what'cha get!

    Format is going to be:
    (Steps_Landed/Steps_Attempted) Step_Hit_Rate% +/- 95%_Confidence -- Normal_Hit_rate 95%_confidence :: Type of Step

    Case 1: No Step Acc gear
    (904/1916) 47.2% +/- 2.2% -- 41.4% +/- 0.9% :: Box Step
    (2247/3588 ) 62.6% +/- 1.6% -- 58.6% +/- 0.9% :: Box Step

    Looks like there's an innate +8-10 Step Acc on Box Step.

    Case 2: Choreia Earring
    (547/972) 56.3% +/-3.1% -- 48.5% +/- 1.1% :: Feather Step

    Hard to draw too much from this both due to the low sample size and step change, but I'd guess Choreia Earring is between 2 and 6 Step Accuracy.

    Case 3: AF1 Hands, AF2 feet, Choreia Earring
    (1274/1863) 68.4% +/- 2.1% -- 49.5% +/- 1.0% :: Box Step
    (1040/1779) 58.5% +/- 2.3% -- 41.8% +/- 1.4% :: Box Step

    With the maximum amount of Step Accuracy available to me, it looks like there's apprixmately a 15-20% Hit rate bonus (30-40 Step Accuracy all told). I'd bet it breaks up:
    10 Step Acc innate
    5 Step Acc from Choreia Earring
    10 Step Acc from Dancer's Bangles (AF1 hands)
    10 Step Acc from Etoile Toe Shoes (AF2 feet)

    Looks like I need to do a control test with Feather Step to confirm it gets the same hit rate bonus as box step, increase sample size, do testing at a higher starting hit rate to increase my statistical power, etc. but I've put the tentative conclusions up there.

  14. #14
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    Feather Step Testing

    My trusty mule and I have been swinging at the same Hpmede for the last five hours, with 5/5 Feather Step up the whole time. The evasion of this Hpemde matches the predicted evasion of the highest level Hpmede in this thread, which means it probably has 72 AGI.

    Without AF3+2 feet:
    80 DEX (dDEX=8, 10% predicted crit rate): 2076/14371 = 14.09 +/- 0.56%

    With AF3+2 feet applying the buffs:
    86 DEX (dDEX=14, 11% predicted crit rate): 3077/17375 = 17.7% +/- 0.56% <-- wearing AF3+2 feet
    90 DEX (dDEX=18, 11% predicted crit rate): 1839/10104 = 18.2% +/- 0.75% <-- THF mule with clubs
    91 DEX (dDEX=19, 11% predicted crit rate): 1346/7519 = 17.9% +/- 0.86% <-- wearing AF3+2 feet

    Because I've spanned almost the whole dDEX plateau there, it seems unlikely to me that Feather Step is doing anything related to dDEX. Because Crit rate is already a percentage, I'm skeptical of suggestions that Feather Step might be multiplicative instead of additive, but I guess it could happen.

  15. #15
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    Does anyone remember where the initial tests relating weapon delay (post-Haste) to Drain Samba were?

  16. #16
    First invited, last in the zone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Does anyone remember where the initial tests relating weapon delay (post-Haste) to Drain Samba were?
    Talk page on wiki has some stuff, if you hadn't checked. The format is terrible though, as with all talk page tests ~_~

  17. #17
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    307 Evasion Hpmede
    Quickstep level 1 -> 309 Acc for "Low Evasion", 308 is neutral
    Quickstep level 2 -> 305 Acc for "Low Evasion", 304 is neutral
    Quickstep level 3 -> 301 Acc for "Low Evasion", 300 is neutral
    Quickstep level 4 -> 297 Acc for "Low Evasion", 296 is neutral
    Quickstep level 4 -> 293 Acc for "Low Evasion", 292 is neutral

    So the 8->4->4->4->4 pattern is correct

    Also:
    48:47 - Lethargic Daze 1 (1:00)
    49:03 - Presto Lethargic Daze 3 (1:30)
    49:20 - Lethargic Daze 4 (2:00)
    49:37 - Lethargic Daze 5 (2:30)
    50:38 - Presto Lethargic Daze 5 (3:00)
    51:45 - Lethargic Daze wears off (3 minutes from first use)

    Despite giving extra potency to the step, Presto grants no duration bonus.

  18. #18
    Chram
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    Running test as extra data point for Byrth's stuff.

    Blm/Whm
    Str: 70-7 = 63

    Ceremonial Dagger
    Dagger skill: 288 = 279 acc

    Try to find suitable goldfish.

    Neutral evasion:
    288 skill + 75 dex - 5 acc = 311 acc

    Low evasion:
    288 skill + 70 dex - 2 acc = 312 acc

    This fits with target of lvl 76. Lvl 76 hpemdes have 302 evasion. Using gear setup for 312 acc.

    Expected hit rate from this parse: 80% hit rate. This can be used to confirm expected scaling near 75%.

    Dex = 70
    Agi = 72
    Should have floored crit rate of 5%+5% = 10%

    Will post results tomorrow.



    .... Then see Byrth's figured out the problem ;p Test cancelled.

  19. #19
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    How did you make the tables?

  20. #20
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    I copied from excel and pasted into here. I have no idea how to legitimately make them.

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