Comments from the Devs

[Alkar]

I can confirm it. Both Spells and Materia use those tiers.

I guess they're trying to appeal to the general MMO fanbase with this decision. I wish they'd add an option though, it can't be that hard to implement when it's supposed to be client-side anyway. I'd say the classic FF tiers make more sense as Cure III is not stronger than II as the numbers would imply and it has a different use like most spells anyway. And those that don't really need to be changed or have something implemented to justify their presence (looking at you Medica and Medica II).
I wasn't expecting Materia to be like this though but I suppose that makes more sense in Japanese and would sound/look really bad in English.

[Elcura]

I guess they're trying to appeal to the general MMO fanbase with this decision. I wish they'd add an option though, it can't be that hard to implement when it's supposed to be client-side anyway. I'd say the classic FF tiers make more sense as Cure III is not stronger than II as the numbers would imply and it has a different use like most spells anyway. And those that don't really need to be changed or have something implemented to justify their presence (looking at you Medica and Medica II).
I wasn't expecting Materia to be like this though but I suppose that makes more sense in Japanese and would sound/look really bad in English.

You really think they need to waste time doing this?

[Reve]

Recipes definitely seem locked. Carpenter is missing Furniture recipes. SE has said Free Company Housing will be P4 so I'm assuming furniture has already been created. All the recipes only use shards, there are no crystal/cluster recipes they could be added at a later phase. There are also recipes that were in 1.0, the item still exists in 2.0, but the recipe is MIA.

[Alkar]

You really think they need to waste time doing this?

I don't see how this is a waste of time, it's a quick fix that they can do whenever they want really. It surely can't take that long to come up with an option in the main menu or simply change the names. It's not like they have to retranslate the whole game here.
I saw people begging to let us lower/raise the visor/hood in certain AFs, isn't that a waste of time as well? Heck I've seen many minor changes through all Beta phases that could be considered a "waste of time" yet they happened anyway.

[Lucavi]

You really think they need to waste time doing this?

Eh, how much time would it really take?

Someone could chalk it up to lore or whatever, so I really don't have an issue with it. I think its better than the whole "the grass is low-rez!" complaints.

[Spider-Dan]

Cure 3 has more historical FF precedent than Curaja. Or is the argument that we should use the different historical precedent?

I know the cool kids (like Tanaka!) will say "we can't do anything the way XI did!" but if you are going to have spells that are basically the-same-but-stronger, it makes more sense to use numbered tiers for that and to use suffixes for different functions. Medica should really be Curaga, unless you're just being different for it's own sake.

[BerenTebogo]

I think the argument is that it is a different fucking spell and should be treated as such.

[Jinfire]

Wouldnt an accepted bug be: They know about it and should be working on a fix? Or is this unfixable?

[Lucavi]

I'd like to say its fixable considering that either switching to a new client or heavily modifying the 1.0 client resulted in less of an issue, but I'm starting to wonder if its just a result of SE using SE's engines. The game engine uses models that are nothing like other modern MMOs. They seem to be more wire and less "animated" style; I wonder if its a combination of the fact that everything is Mocapped combined with whatever engine SE is running.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: if you took the models from 2.0, and ported them into a game like GW2, which does not have the same issue, would all be well or would there still be some of this sliding nonsense? This stuff is going to be murder for PVP, especially as they've increased the range for physical moves to land compared to XI.

[Skai]

Weren't all the tier spells in the original Japanese FF all -a/-aga/-aja? Unless I'm mistaken.

[Stanislaw]

Weren't all the tier spells in the original Japanese FF all -a/-aga/-aja? Unless I'm mistaken.

More like ra/ga/ja (under the original Japanese language, strictly speaking), but yeah. I will add that the /ja tiered spells came in pretty late in the series, though, since until it's introduction there were only basically three tiers of spells.

Interestingly enough, the Materias in ARR don't quite follow this tier system. Materias follow the tiers of ra/da/ga/ja.

[Evane]

I wonder what the fifth tier's suffix would be.

Edit: A quick look at the jp lodestone and a reread of Stan's post just made me feel stupid. I should sleep now.

[Alkar]

Cure 3 has more historical FF precedent than Curaja. Or is the argument that we should use the different historical precedent?

I know the cool kids (like Tanaka!) will say "we can't do anything the way XI did!" but if you are going to have spells that are basically the-same-but-stronger, it makes more sense to use numbered tiers for that and to use suffixes for different functions. Medica should really be Curaga, unless you're just being different for it's own sake.

Are we taking mistranslations or laziness as historical precedent now? I'm sorry but these spell tiers have been with the series since FF1 in Japan and have been the norm since FF8 in the west as well (every single re-release has the -ra, -ga, -ja tiers now). Cure III in ARR is not stronger than Cure II and it's AoE, same for Fire/Blizzard II. Each spell has a completely different purpose so the FF tiers seem to make more sense to me than a number that seems to imply III>I when that's not the case at all.
Even FFXI has proper FF tiers implemented and each of those spells has a different purpose or mechanic in place.
Basically this is a FF game, I'd like to see that in spell names as well. There's a lot of attention to detail going on in ARR so it really surprises me that the translation team is doing this... especially after having the correct names in 1.0 AFTER Yoshi-P took over and redesigned each class.

[solracht]

There are some spells where I, II, III tiers would make sense because the higher tier simply replaces the lower one (before you take traits into account at least...) but there are other cases where the spells serve completely different purposes and they could use different names.

Stone II is a nuke, Stone I is a debuff
Aero II is a stronger Aero I
Cure II is a stronger Cure I
Cure III is an AoE heal, Cure II is a single target heal
Medica II is an AoE heal + regen, Medica I is an AoE heal

etc

Some naming consistency would be nice I guess but ultimately I don't really care.

[Elcura]

I don't see how this is a waste of time, it's a quick fix that they can do whenever they want really. It surely can't take that long to come up with an option in the main menu or simply change the names. It's not like they have to retranslate the whole game here.
I saw people begging to let us lower/raise the visor/hood in certain AFs, isn't that a waste of time as well? Heck I've seen many minor changes through all Beta phases that could be considered a "waste of time" yet they happened anyway.

Because it's just simply a waste of time no matter how you look at it. Hey, maybe when they fix and add the things they need to add then they can look at meaningless flavour options for people who can't stand certain naming conventions. This is why FF fans are the worse, you actually need spell names to be just a certain way because somehow it matters? It's not like any other skill name matters, only Cure, Cura, Fira etc. It's just so shallow I can't see the benefit in doing this.

And the hood thing is far more valid a want than fucking naming conventions are you kidding me? In the long run, both are unnecessary, but would you rather have the option to lower/raise your hood/visor/mask whatever and see your characters face (or not), or do you want an option to have Cure II be called Cura instead.

Wat.

Eh, how much time would it really take?

Someone could chalk it up to lore or whatever, so I really don't have an issue with it. I think its better than the whole "the grass is low-rez!" complaints.

I dunno if it would take long. But an option is always riskier than doing things one way or the other. Then you have to test the text in different languages, see if it displays properly when the option is turned on and off, make sure these options don't cause any unintended effects, test it all out etc. I mean, why bother just to please people who can't handle Cure II or III instead of Curaja. Or maybe people just want to be confusing for the sake of their FF feelz.

Cure 3 has more historical FF precedent than Curaja. Or is the argument that we should use the different historical precedent?

I know the cool kids (like Tanaka!) will say "we can't do anything the way XI did!" but if you are going to have spells that are basically the-same-but-stronger, it makes more sense to use numbered tiers for that and to use suffixes for different functions. Medica should really be Curaga, unless you're just being different for it's own sake.

Are we taking mistranslations or laziness as historical precedent now? I'm sorry but these spell tiers have been with the series since FF1 in Japan and have been the norm since FF8 in the west as well (every single re-release has the -ra, -ga, -ja tiers now). Cure III in ARR is not stronger than Cure II and it's AoE, same for Fire/Blizzard II. Each spell has a completely different purpose so the FF tiers seem to make more sense to me than a number that seems to imply III>I when that's not the case at all.
Even FFXI has proper FF tiers implemented and each of those spells has a different purpose or mechanic in place.
Basically this is a FF game, I'd like to see that in spell names as well. There's a lot of attention to detail going on in ARR so it really surprises me that the translation team is doing this... especially after having the correct names in 1.0 AFTER Yoshi-P took over and redesigned each class.

There are some spells where I, II, III tiers would make sense because the higher tier simply replaces the lower one (before you take traits into account at least...) but there are other cases where the spells serve completely different purposes and they could use different names.

Stone II is a nuke, Stone I is a debuff
Aero II is a stronger Aero I
Cure II is a stronger Cure I
Cure III is an AoE heal, Cure II is a single target heal
Medica II is an AoE heal + regen, Medica I is an AoE heal

etc

Some naming consistency would be nice I guess but ultimately I don't really care.

The fuck is all this shit? I just don't even get it. I don't care one way or another what the spells are called as long as they function properly, look cool and are useful. Whether I use a spell called Cura or Cure II, it doesn't matter. If they had done it originally like you guys wanted, I would say that adding an option to change it into tiers was also a waste of time.

[solracht]

As I said, I don't care about the names they use either. However, like Sath said if spells are completely different maybe they should be treated as such. It has nothing to do with FF feels or FF naming conventions.

And the hood thing is far more valid a want than fucking naming conventions are you kidding me? In the long run, both are unnecessary, but would you rather have the option to lower/raise your hood/visor/mask whatever and see your characters face (or not), or do you want an option to have Cure II be called Cura instead.

You just implied that when the localization team changes name strings it somehow takes time away from the team taking care of graphical assets.

Wat.

[Elcura]

As I said, I don't care about the names they use either. However, like Sath said if spells are completely different maybe they should be treated as such. It has nothing to do with FF feels or FF naming conventions.



You just implied that when the localization team changes name strings it somehow takes time away from the team taking care of graphical assets.

That's not what I'm implying whatsoever. Not even in the slightest.

[Spider-Dan]

Are we taking mistranslations or laziness as historical precedent now?

Is Vega a "mistranslation" of Balrog? Is Mega Man a "mistranslation" of Rockman?

In English, the spells have been numbered for longer than they have not.

I'm sorry but these spell tiers have been with the series since FF1 in Japan and have been the norm since FF8 in the west as well (every single re-release has the -ra, -ga, -ja tiers now).

So in Japanese XI, Thundaga III is Thundagaga?

Cure III in ARR is not stronger than Cure II and it's AoE, same for Fire/Blizzard II.

Then it would seem to make sense to call them something different, like Curaga and Firaga and Blizzaga.

However, as mentioned, Cure II is Cure-but-more and Fire III is Fire-but-more. So why not save the different names for spells that actually do different things, instead of more of the same thing?

Even FFXI has proper FF tiers implemented and each of those spells has a different purpose or mechanic in place.

If, by "proper FF tiers," you mean -ra -ga -ja to indicate power level (and not different function), how can you possibly reconcile:

Thunder
Thunder II
Thunder III
Thunder IV
Thundaga
Thundaga II
Thundaga III
Thundaja
Thundara
Thundara II

...all existing in the same game? If suffixes (instead of tier number) indicated power level as in "proper FF tiers," nearly all of those names are completely nonsensical.

[Skai]

Edit: Never mind, pointless.

[Todash]

Because it's just simply a waste of time no matter how you look at it.

Having a logical naming convention is valuable for new players and shows attention to detail from the developer. I don't think it an unreasonable thing for the developers to consider. And it would be a quick fix.

As for following up with FF lore, there are so many contradictions that it hardly matters what they go with... but it should at least be consistent within one game.