Skillchain Elemental Affinity

**Byrthnoth** · 2011-03-31 13:45

Test to confirm obi and day do not give macc?

What I mean is, you've done Wind Obi on Windsday with and Obi and Threnodies/Ninja tools and Fire Obi on Firesday, but have you confirmed that you'll never get a day bonus on Windsday without debuffing the monster or using an Obi?

I got Iceday bonuses on Spiders without an Obi, but about 30% of the time. Spiders are weak to Ice, allegedly, so it doesn't really tell us where Ice is in the order. I share Nynja's skepticism about everything being weak to Ice or Thunder on Wiki. Especially common Black Mage targets...

**Ophannus** · 2011-03-31 14:38

Thought Drachen Armet increased the likelihood of using the correct breath not making it a 100% affair. I always felt that as the wyvern increased in level, the likelihood of using the correct breath increased naturally or via some invisible job trait.

**Stromgarde** · 2011-03-31 14:52

Could test that later using a mule to level sync onto crabs in valkurm or something... either it's connected to level or it was a global change, either way at level 90 the end result is the same.

**Stromgarde** · 2011-03-31 15:03

Test to confirm obi and day do not give macc?

What I mean is, you've done Wind Obi on Windsday with and Obi and Threnodies/Ninja tools and Fire Obi on Firesday, but have you confirmed that you'll never get a day bonus on Windsday without debuffing the monster or using an Obi?

I got Iceday bonuses on Spiders without an Obi, but about 30% of the time. Spiders are weak to Ice, allegedly, so it doesn't really tell us where Ice is in the order. I share Nynja's skepticism about everything being weak to Ice or Thunder on Wiki. Especially common Black Mage targets...

In the test with the debuffs, we flubbed our timing twice, and doton's effect had worn by the time the chain went; no bonus. Not conclusive, but better than nothing I suppose.

**NynJa** · 2011-03-31 18:51

I'll run some SC tests when I get home too, since my entire fucking abyssea group disappeared post quake FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

ok, so what do you want? low lvl sync, and just do any WS on drg on a mob not weak to fire and see if wyvern does flame breath or something else?

DRG50 at Xarc on Evil Eye (no known weakness, lightsday)
WS1(penta) = Hydro Breath
WS2(penta) = Flame Breath
WS3(Penta) = Flame Breath

DRG50 @ Yhoat on Worker Crawler (Dark weakness, still lightsday)
WS1(penta) = Flame Breath
WS2(Double) = Frost Breath
WS3(Thunder) = Frost

DRG50 @ Yhoat on Coeurl (Earth Weakness, still lights)
WS1 (Penta) = Lightning Breath
WS2 (Double) = Sand
WS3 (Raiden) = Flame
WS4 (Penta) = Sand
WS5 (Double) = Lightning

random is random?

**Tortalius** · 2011-04-01 11:12

Might be due to you being too high a level. Were the breaths unresisted? If so, the AI wouldn't care. For example: the PUP BLMbot will use Wind on Birds if it thinks it'll land unresisted, despite innate wind resistance traits.

Edit: Wait drg 50? How can you use the Drachen Armet that way? Sync will definitely prevent that effect.

**NynJa** · 2011-04-01 11:46

umm...was I mistaken? I thought they wanted lower level tests to see if the Wyvern automatically picks the element the mob is weak to like it does at higher levels?

**Yugl** · 2011-04-01 13:28

Shouldn't matter for practical purposes. My bet is that the AI either gradually increases or they improve their AI between 60-90 if what Stromgarde says is true. I can do a quick run of smithing breaths to see what I get (Or if anyone else wants to do it before me...). Also, wyverns cannot use dark breath, so avoid mobs that have that as their least resisted element.

**Stromgarde** · 2011-04-01 15:29

I think Ophannus was correct with his assertion that wyvern AI improves with level, rather than my initial impression that it was just a patch; however, at 90 it almost 100% of the time chooses the right breath, in line with what has been observed with skillchain element priority if no weakness exists. It would definitely make for an interesting test later on, but we're getting a bit derailed for this thread. I'll test light on fire elementals tomorrow morning if no one else has by that time.

**Byrthnoth** · 2011-04-01 23:25

For Dark skillchain, Dark is not first and it is not second if Ice is first.

vs. Tigers (strong against ice, weak to Fire/Lightning allegedly) on Darksday, I got +10% with Dark Threnody all the time (5/5) and never without Dark Threnody (0/10). <--- control that shows Obis probably don't give MAcc, or at least not enough to override any unknown "Dark" weakness of tigers.
vs. Ameretats - They're either strong against dark damage (makes sense with how many drain moves they have) or really weak against some other "Dark" element, because Dark Threnody didn't force (or even give the option) for +10% day bonus.

Double Threnodies doesn't work (boo!) It looks like the target can only have one threnody on at once. I did Dark Threnody -> Wind Threnody and didn't get the 10% bonus. Would have been sweet if that had worked.

**Stromgarde** · 2011-04-01 23:49

Since Dark is now known to not be second, we should be able to observe if Dark is before or after Earth on the Gefryrst (Distortion) elementals in one of the Heroes zones then.

**Yugl** · 2011-04-02 00:16

We should probably code the language a bit to avoid confusion.

Dark Skillchain = DSC
Light Skillchain = LSC

Dark element = Dark
Light element = Light

So far it looks like:

DSC: Ice > ??? > ??? > ???
LSC: Fire > ??? > ??? > ???

The resistance of the mob determines the element of the SC (Least resisted element wins out). Anything missing?

Did a quick test on the Hybrid Distortion Elemental with Provolone:
Voidstorm + Obi:
547 > 547 (100%)
334 > 334 (100%)

Sandstorm + No Obi:
617 > 678 (109.8865%)

Did another test and found Earth > Water using Skeles @ Attohwa

Rainstorm:
1293 > 1293 (100%)

Sandstorm:
690 > 759 (110%)

Ice > Dark
Earth > Dark
Earth > Water

Ice > Earth > ??? > ???

I'm guessing Water > Dark, but we'll see.

Another test using LSC on Fire/Light Hybrid Elementals:

Thunder Obi + Thunderstorm:
533 > 533 (100%)

Windstorm + No Obi:
462 > 508 (109.95671%)

Wind > Thunder

Fire > ??? > ??? > ???

Conjecture on the entire set:
Fire > Wind > Light > Thunder
Ice > Earth > Water > Dark

or

Fire > Wind > Thunder > Light
Ice > Earth > Water > Dark

**Byrthnoth** · 2011-04-02 06:50

Originally Posted by Yugl

Conjecture on the entire set:
Fire > Wind > Light > Thunder
Ice > Earth > Water > Dark

or

Fire > Wind > Thunder > Light
Ice > Earth > Water > Dark

My money is on number 2. Check your equipment screen.

**Stromgarde** · 2011-04-02 09:10

Sounds good to me, the only way we're going to find out the order of the last two is a specific resist set on charmed players or in ballista though, since nothing that I'm aware of resists both fire and wind or ice and earth without having a weakness.

**Byrthnoth** · 2011-04-02 09:14

If we calibrate Threnody so that it's equal in strength to Ninja Ni spells, then we could check strengths pairwise. Like, assuming number 2 is correct:
Weaken the monster to Thunder using a Ni spell, Light Threnody it, make Light and check if it's Thunder or Light weak.

I'm not sure it's worth that much though.

**Stromgarde** · 2011-04-02 10:30

More Obi-related data from fire elementals (Windsday, Wind Obi):

Code:

WS	Chain	%	
335	368	109.8507463	
302	332	109.9337748	
467	256	54.81798715	109.6359743 (Half resist)
320	352	110.0000000
395	434	109.8734177

I think we're ready to go forward and finalize findings; Even if light is ahead of thunder, like you said there's no mobs presently in the game right now that it would make a difference on.

**Yugl** · 2011-04-02 12:44

A brenner test might work, as well in case anyone REALLY wants to get those last two elements correct. Also, I couldn't find info on NIN's resistance debuffs (50 +5/instrument boost for Threnody).

Edit: Also, Blood Rage testing for you in upper section Byrth.

Thread: Skillchain Elemental Affinity

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