Skillchain Elemental Affinity

[Stromgarde]

Do level 3 skillchains deal one of four types of damage at random, or is it always Light/Dark?

This should be fairly easy to determine; level 3 skillchains on Puks should, depending on day, either always heal, never heal, or intermittently heal them if it is indeed random.
--
Summary of findings thus far:
Level 2+ skillchains choose the element of their damage based on resistances of target.
This can be shifted by use of threnodies or ninjutsu.
Skillchain damage can be enhanced with elemental obis, but only for the aligned element of the chosen damage type (i.e. only Rairin (Thunder) Obi will work on Puks for Fragmentation).
Order of preference is as follows:
Light Skillchain: Fire > Wind > Thunder > Light
Dark Skillchain: Ice > Earth > Water > Dark

The priority of the last two elements of the light skillchain has not been determined with 100% accuracy, but as there are no mobs currently in the game for which it would matter, I think we're can call it good for now.

[Foldypaws]

I'm not sure whether or not the level 3 skillchains do "dark" or "light" damage, but it's fairly easy to see that they don't run off normal dark/light resistance. You can go out and Light/Darkness on light/dark elementals, and they won't full resist.

Puks would tell you if it's *not* wind, you might want to do something like djinn to test that it's not darkness.

I'd be willing to test that next week when I get back from out of town if no one's done it before.

[Byrthnoth]

I think I did this:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/102...=1#post4504694

Day bonus procced on 3/13 of them, which is either luck or indicates a preference for the lowest resistance element.
DNC AF3+2 hands procced on 8/13, so it is probably around the same % increase as Striking's Crit rate from +2 body.

[Stromgarde]

I'm not sure whether or not the level 3 skillchains do "dark" or "light" damage, but it's fairly easy to see that they don't run off normal dark/light resistance. You can go out and Light/Darkness on light/dark elementals, and they won't full resist.

Puks would tell you if it's *not* wind, you might want to do something like djinn to test that it's not darkness.

I'd be willing to test that next week when I get back from out of town if no one's done it before.

Djinns are a great target for many reasons. I'll update this post once I finish testing.

[Stromgarde]

Ok, finished testing. Demonstrating Foldypaws's point that it is not light-light;

Light Elemental (Tu'Lia): Light
	293	228	Shell IV
	376	376	 
	307	307	 
	271	211	Shell IV
	351	274	Shell IV
	360	360	 
	378	295	Shell IV
	368	287	Shell IV
	382	298	Shell IV
	364	364

So 10/10 without any resistance at all.

Helter-Skelter(Abyssea-Vunkerl): Light
	1696	848	50%
	1696	1696	100%
	1988	1988	100%
	1901	1901	100%
	1670	1837	110%
	1863	1863	100%
	1132	1132	100%
	1502	1502	100%
	1223	1223	100%
	1602	1602	100%

Interestingly, it was lightsday for all of these tests, hence the 110%... I'm not sure what to make of that.
Since Djinns take a 50% damage cut from all sources except fire which they are also weak to, this indicates that on this particular test, fire was used for resistance purposes, and that which element used depends solely on the resistances of the target.

Now, for damage type when there is no particular preference (Puks are either only slightly resistant to wind, or not resistant at all despite absorbing that damage type)

Sea Puk (MMJ Staging Point): Fragmentation
	508	304	59%
	477	257	53%
	492	132	26%
	339	203	59%
	496	297	59%
	543	325	59%
	313	187	59%
	285	171	60%
	336	201	59%
	529	317	59%

All attacks inflicted damage, rather than healing them as can be seen when creating a detonation skillchain... Further testing on Turul with fragmentation skillchains yielded similar results, with him taking damage rather than absorbing it. This may point towards damage type for L2 and above being 'all-purpose' or 'non-elemental' magical damage, with the element of least resistance only being used for resistance check rather than actual damage type.

[Rena]

Turul supposedly only absorbs wind damage when Reaving Wind is active according to wiki? (Not really sure on this myself, haven't been on a job I've had to nuke it on, much less with those elements... and if it nukes itself with both elements my memory is failing me.) If so, it could still be wind damage, unless you tested during Reaving Wind?

[Stromgarde]

Turul supposedly only absorbs wind damage when Reaving Wind is active according to wiki? (Not really sure on this myself, haven't been on a job I've had to nuke it on, much less with those elements... and if it nukes itself with both elements my memory is failing me.) If so, it could still be wind damage, unless you tested during Reaving Wind?

I was unable to test during reaving wind due to knockback and tp reset; While testing on Turul itself might be possible with ranged weaponskills, the tests with Puks point away from it being wind damage.

[Rena]

Don't quite see how that would rule out the possibility of element simply being either the two of the two skillchain elements unless I'm missing something?

[Stromgarde]

Don't quite see how that would rule out the possibility of element simply being either the two of the two skillchain elements unless I'm missing something?

In terms of truly rigorous testing, it does not... The case with the Puks is merely an indication. Unfortunately, I am unable to test this myself atm due to lack of a ranger.

[Yugl]

I might have done Stromgarde bad in reviewing the information.

Does LV3 Skillchaining produce Light or Dark damage assuming damage type is separate from resistance?

What his test shows:
- If a monster (X) absorbs element (E), X will absorb skillchains containing E unless that skillchain contains additional elements (E')
*** The question that arises: Why is it not absorbing the skillchain despite containing E
*** Explanation 1: Skillchain damage is based on a primary element (Light/Dark) [i.e. each skillchain is tied to a particular element]
*** Explanation 2: Skillchain damage is based on multiple elements (Light/Fire/Wind/Thunder), but can "switch" to particular elements if using one yields unfavorable results (Healing the mob, for instance)
*** Explanation 3: Skillchain damage has no element

I think we can rule out Hypothesis 1 at least for tier 2 skillchains because if that were the case, either the Puk or Turul would have absorbed the Fragmentation damage. I think we can further test (Or explain) this if we use the mechanics of Puks/Djinn + Day Element. Since Puks receive at least 100% TP if they receive damage from the element corresponding to the day, we should expect them to perform a TP move @ 20% or less HP when hit by a skillchain corresponding to the day (EX: Light SC on Lightdy). Hypothesis 3 is also suspect since I recall Obis working with skillchains. If it is hypothesis 3, we have to assume that skillchain damage element coordinates with gear, but skillchain checks against the mob register as no element (i.e. For your abilities and gear, it has an element, but for calculations against the monster, there is no element). Given that tier 1 skillchains do heal (If I recall correctly), I am inclined to agree with Stromgarde's conclusion which is that it is a multi-fold element and that resistance is based on the least-resisted element. To test this, however, try using Fragmentation on a 25% HP Puk during Thunderday. On one hand, if it's wind damage, then it should recover. On the other hand, if it's thunder damage, the mob should gain 100% TP + do a TP move. A test on non-thunder+winds dy will help this test as well.

[Stromgarde]

I am in the process of testing fragmentation on Turul under Reaving Wind, which should establish cleanly whether it is case 2 or 3. Additionally, it is not outside the realm of possibility that day/weather bonus is calculated independently of actual damage type.

Edit: 30 tp moves later, only once saw reaving wind and was stunned for the entire duration of it. I'll try again tomorrow before work.

[Yugl]

It's unlikely I'll get the chance to do this, but if anyone can test Transfixion against light elements, that would help.

[Byrthnoth]

So in general we're satisfied with the evidence that Light and Dark skillchains can also pick elements for their damage that are not Light or Dark?

I'm fairly sure that the skillchain damage "picks" one of the four elements based on monster resist rate. I don't think it has always worked this way, but I think this was one of the changes made when SE was trying to buff skillchains so people would use them again. I specifically remember a patch where they claimed to make them more accurate, but I don't remember anyone noticing much afterwards. It could be that it reads the monster's resistances and then chooses an element based off them, kind of like offensive Wyvern breaths with DRG AF1 head?

Also, I was thinking that Puks might not be such a bad target for this after all. I can engage them and self-dark. If it's damage of the day's element, they should get an instant 100TP and WS me.

[Stromgarde]

So in general we're satisfied with the evidence that Light and Dark skillchains can also pick elements for their damage that are not Light or Dark?

I'm fairly sure that the skillchain damage "picks" one of the four elements based on monster resist rate. I don't think it has always worked this way, but I think this was one of the changes made when SE was trying to buff skillchains so people would use them again. I specifically remember a patch where they claimed to make them more accurate, but I don't remember anyone noticing much afterwards. It could be that it reads the monster's resistances and then chooses an element based off them, kind of like offensive Wyvern breaths with DRG AF1 head?

Also, I was thinking that Puks might not be such a bad target for this after all. I can engage them and self-dark. If it's damage of the day's element, they should get an instant 100TP and WS me.

I've noticed that wyverns tend to be smarter about using breaths lately as well... Go on iceday, that's what breath my wyvern used very consistently when I did my tests yesterday.

[Byrthnoth]

I've noticed that wyverns tend to be smarter about using breaths lately as well... Go on iceday, that's what breath my wyvern used very consistently when I did my tests yesterday.

Convenient! I have Hyorin Obi, so I can iron that out at the same time (check if Induration is always +10%, hopefully it is, then I can use that to tell when Dark is ever Ice). I will try to hit the next Iceday, but I'm starting a rather large cooking project so we'll have to see how it works out >:/

[Stromgarde]

Transfixtion vs. Tu'Lia Light Elementals data:

Light Elem.
	WS	TF
	238	5	2%
	116	2	1%
	273	6	2%
	314	7	2%
	200	4	2%

Chain used was Penta Thrust -> Skewer.

[Byrthnoth]

Ftr, the post I linked in the main body was testing I did yesterday showing a 10% damage bonus to Darkness skillchain occasionally on Iceday. So we already knew it was elemental, can get day/weather bonus, and could be not-darkness despite being "Dark." The only remaining question is how it chooses its element, and it seems likely that resistances have a role.

Evisceration -> Darkness
1213 -> 727 (Damage+20%)
1255 -> 1506 (Damage+20%)
787 -> 1038 (Damage+20%*Damage+10%)
740 -> 976 (Damage+20%*Damage+10%)
947 -> 1183 (Damage+25%)
885 -> 1106 (Damage+25%)
1100 -> 1395 (Damage+25%)
1049 -> 655 (Damage+25%)
974 -> 1338 (Damage+25%*Damage+10%)
1221 -> 1526 (damage+25%)
1207 -> 1508 (Damage+25%)
977 -> 1172 (Damage+20%)
1173 -> 1466 (Damage+25%)

DNC AF3+2 hands give +5 Skillchain bonus with a certain probability, probably around 60% from the looks of things. I kept them on all the time just for consistency.

[Stromgarde]

Was finally able to test on Turul during Reaving Wind, but it was in the middle of casting and it didn't seem like knockback aura was active at the exact time of skillchaining. Anyway, it took damage, but does this really even matter? While it could be either way, I'm not really sure it matters at this point. Turul is the only mob that would be able to absorb both elements of any T2+ skillchain, and the knockback aura makes it all but impossible to chain him while it's active. Given the obi / day bonus correlation as well as the difficulty of creating fragmentation on him when he would absorb both elements, I'll defer to the rest of you.

[Yugl]

I doubt we need further testing on this issue. We can just stick to:
- Multi-Element Skillchains (LV2+) are comprised of multiple elements (Not just light and not Elementless)
- The element of the damage done depends on the resistances of the mob
*** The SC chooses elements the mob resists the least

Edit: If still interested...

SCH could Fragmentation without getting knocked back (Blizz > Water). Not sure how soon I could get around to testing it myself.

[Stromgarde]

Test data regarding Obi effects on skillchain (Wind Obi, Windsday):

	Damage	Chain	Fractional			
Sea Puk	2003	2003	100%		Light (Watersday)	
	340	204	60%	D+W	Fragmentation	
	304	91	29%	D+W	Fragmentation	
	389	233	59%	D+W	Fragmentation	
	299	179	59%	D+W	Fragmentation	
	520	312	60%	D	Fragmentation	
	1888	1888	100%	D	Light	
	1305	1305	100%	D	Light

.'. Previous tests indicated that the damage caused by fragmentation on Sea Puks was thunder based, this is in line with that; I'll try to get a thunder obi in the next few days to confirm.