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  1. #81
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    Sony is actually being pretty calm about it all. If it were Microsoft they would have had the guys parents locked in a turkish prison, his siblings deported to mexico and his dog killed in front of him while Bill Gates raped it in the ass.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raytheon View Post
    Most of the ones that actually perform the hacking aren't kids. There's some script kiddies in there yeah, but they're not the ones actually bypassing firewalls, creating DDoS attacks, etc. The script kiddies are given scripts that may contain virus', worms, logic bombs, you name it, by the guys actually creating the shit. The script kiddies think they're hackers, but all they're doing is testing this guy's malicious software and taking all the risk. More than likely, their computers are bots and the real hackers use them as layers of protection against ARIN lookups.
    Doesn't matter. Kids or not; anon is strong. Anon also takes care of their own; scriptkiddies included.

  3. #83
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    I don't give a shit what the happens as long as I'm not inconvenienced in the least! It's the American way!
    Which it sounds like this may if it interrupts PS servers.

    On a different note, what has Anon actually accomplished aside from temporarily ruining random internet people's lives? (Serious question)
    I remember they were doing something that was getting a lot of attention, but then people stopped caring.

  4. #84
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    If my eyes rolled any harder while reading that letter they would have fallen out of my head.

  5. #85
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliseos View Post
    If he ever made a PSN account he did. They don't let you sign in until you agree to the TOS. Subsequent revisions to the TOS they won't let you sign in without it. Plus I'm pretty sure there is a TOS from just purchasing the PS3 (since other major electronics also have it). I'm trying to check right now, but Playstation's website is obviously down. Google gives "Note that if you do choose to create a PSN account, you will need to agree to a separate Terms of Service and User Agreement ("ToSUA") and Privacy Policy ..." on a "terms of service ps3" search though.
    Just maaaybe he found a way around it. I herd he's pretty gewd with computers.

    And don't give me that "implicit consent" bullshit. Think that holds up in court? I don't.

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 4G using Tapatalk

  6. #86

    Quote Originally Posted by archibaldcrane View Post
    Just maaaybe he found a way around it. I herd he's pretty gewd with computers.

    And don't give me that "implicit consent" bullshit. Think that holds up in court? I don't.

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 4G using Tapatalk
    You don't think that someone has used a product before in a way other than it was designed for and then tried to the sue the company when they get hurt? How do you think companies protect themselves from dumbass law suits? It works and it happens all the time. It just so happens that the process can be reversed. That's like using a blow-drier in the bath tub that doesn't have a cut off/surge protector or whatever the fuck that safety device is called and shocking your ass then trying to the sue the company because you want to blow dry your shit will in the tub.

    Just because you didn't physically agree to use the blow drier in that way doesn't mean that by buying it you didn't agree to it.

  7. #87
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Shinzon* View Post
    You don't think that someone has used a product before in a way other than it was designed for and then tried to the sue the company when they get hurt? How do you think companies protect themselves from dumbass law suits? It works and it happens all the time. It just so happens that the process can be reversed.
    They aren't suing him for violations of the EULA...

    I understand you apparently want Sony to have an ironclad, open and shut legal slam dunk of a case, but they don't.

    Jailbreaking phones isn't illegal anymore. Jailbreaking consoles shouldn't be either.

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 4G using Tapatalk

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flarega View Post
    If my eyes rolled any harder while reading that letter they would have fallen out of my head.
    lmao, me too! i felt embarrassed for whoever typed that out.

  9. #89

    It's far from a slam dunk for sony, but ain't gonna be a breeze for hotz either. That's kinda my point. Just many people are refusing to see the side of it from Sony.

    Also you're right, I don't believe in pirating games or circumventing anti-hacking measures. Because it fucks with my game that I paid for. So yea I hope sony wins.

  10. #90

    There's a lot of people here that like to make analogies without having the first idea the implication of what's going on. This car thing is ridiculous.

    If you buy the PS3, and modify it so that others can utilize future software for free without buying it, that is not the same as buying a car and figuring out how to change the intake. Other people still have to pay for the intake and labor or do the work yourself. You're not 'copying' the intake and giving it out to other people for free. Fucking idiots.

    ITT: The continuation of the sense of entitlement this generation has.

  11. #91
    the whitest knight u' know
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raytheon View Post
    You're missing the fact that I ALREADY PAID for the ideas by buying a PS3 with the OS provided. What Geo did was expand on that idea. Sony didn't think of that shit, Geo did. What you're arguing is that nobody should be paid for ideas Sony MIGHT HAVE IN THE FUTURE, which is fucking lame bro.

    If we had to rely on every inventor to improve upon their own ideas solely, no one else could upgrade, modify, enhance, or otherwise further the progress of ANY idea, we'd still be in the fucking stone age man.
    No, you did not pay for the ideas. You paid to use the product of their ideas. You rarely ever "buy" software by any standard sense of the word no matter what it might be. You are paying to use the product. You can't just magically own the rights to fuck with their operating system and bastardize it into doing something other than what it was designed to do just because you bought a video game system that it was loaded on. Not to mention making an agreement that you wouldn't do that. Improving on a concept and having it be "30%" different is one thing (and totally legal). Being one of the few people publicly reverse-engineering Sony's authentication software and opening the doors for mass piracy is not "improving" anything.

    Digital products are an entirely different beast. You can't hold them up to the standards of physical goods because of how immensely easy it is to infinitely copy and distribute them, destroying innumerable potential customers. It's a lot less likely that you can reverse-engineer your car so other people can get cars for free.

    If you pick apart each individual action that Hotz did in this case, it doesn't look like he did too much wrong aside from the fact that he most likely agreed to a Terms of Use Agreement that stated he would not reverse-engineer or manipulate the software on his devices. However, considering the community he's been actively involved with and the incredibly retarded and unnecessarily self-righteous Anonymous faction that decided to spearhead a movement in his innocence in a very incriminating way, he looks pretty fucking guilty.

  12. #92
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    I just wanna take this moment to say: Raytheon, you are a fucking retard.

    Everyone else has been ignoring your idiotic posts in this thread, and I should probably do the same, but holy fucking balls, I don't see how you manage to survive each day. I sincerely hope that you never become any sort of legislature, because then businesses couldn't take action against anyone that cost them 1% or less of their profits...

    "Oh, he didn't make 1.37 billion off of it, so what's the big deal?"...

    Fucking /facepalm...

  13. #93
    I'll change yer fuckin rate you derivative piece of shit
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    Quote Originally Posted by miokomioko View Post
    You can't just magically own the rights to fuck with their operating system and bastardize it into doing something other than what it was designed to do just because you bought a video game system that it was loaded on.
    Sure you do, you just can't give away that software, or make copies of it, or claim it as your own.

    If you buy PS3 hardware, you can put your own software on it. The "opening the door for piracy" is a slippery slope argument. Countless people have created software or hardware (such as, um, a hard drive! or a CD burner! or the INTERNET!) that "open the door for piracy". Geohot re-opened the door to put a custom operating system back into the machine that Sony had removed access to.

    Other people used his methods to engage in piracy.

  14. #94
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    The whole situation just seems like a dumb excuse to piss a bunch of people off by DDoSing the PSN network, regardless of whether or not there's a stupid legal issue associated with it.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flarega View Post
    The whole situation just seems like a dumb excuse to piss a bunch of people off by DDoSing the PSN network, regardless of whether or not there's a stupid legal issue associated with it.
    Except Anon doesn't really randomly pick and choose the large targets they go after. It has historically been companies or organizations that are somehow directly impeding or facilitating the impediment of free speech (such as their protests vs church of scientology, ddos against paypal because of wikileaks, etc). Sony is attacking someone who is standing in a very grey area of the law and public opinion of the law, as can be seen by the back and forth responses in this thread. I think most of the people taking part in Anon's attacks have a sense of justice and believe they are doing the right thing in regards to human freedoms. So it's not really a dumb excuse to piss people off, they are really trying to make a statement to Sony. Whether the way they are going about it is dumb or not is a totally different story however.

    As always, though, Anon continues to bring the lulz. They are very interesting to hear about no matter who their target of the month happens to be. /popcorn

  16. #96
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    SO LETS PISS OFF A BUNCH OF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PLAY ON PSN. Oh yeah, and free speech.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by archibaldcrane View Post
    Sure you do, you just can't give away that software, or make copies of it, or claim it as your own.

    If you buy PS3 hardware, you can put your own software on it. The "opening the door for piracy" is a slippery slope argument. Countless people have created software or hardware (such as, um, a hard drive! or a CD burner! or the INTERNET!) that "open the door for piracy". Geohot re-opened the door to put a custom operating system back into the machine that Sony had removed access to.

    Other people used his methods to engage in piracy.
    Take my sentence out of context and restate something I've already established. OK.

    I repeat. You do not buy software. At most, you buy the permission to use a copy of the software. Terms of Use/Service Agreements exist for this reason. Also, to shed the developers from any responsibility of the results of your actions with their software, but mostly to establish that you AGREE not to copy, distribute, or fuck with the software. They have no business left if their software is open source. It's not yours to fuck with even though you might think so. The thing is, you can fuck with it all you want by yourself and keep it to yourself and no one would be the wiser, go you. If you're the guy who continues to post your progress in attempting to break into a company's software's authentication processes and make it public, you're a real dipshit that deserves any kind of repercussion.

    Like I said, you can't make this comparison between intangible, infinitely-reproducable, infinitely-distributable, digital products and something physical. Until someone comes up with a Star Trek style replicator or something, digital products get a different type of treatment in this world. Anonymous' stupid "freedom of information" in this case is just them trying to justify their free video games. I doubt any of them realize that these video games would not exist if there was this freedom to endlessly copy and distribute any form of information.

    I really wonder how many people saying "slippery slope" about this actually believe what they're saying.

  18. #98
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    I am totally on the fence on this 'cause I can see sides to everything, but I just wanted to post and say the car analogy is pretty retarded. Just because you can own a car and do w/e you want to it, doesn't mean it happens to everything in every way.

    You know what this situation reminds me of? HOAs. You spend 500k+ on a house and you can't do shit to it without their approval. We had a cousin who redid their kitchen, and got fined by the HOA for $2k because they didn't get approval first...on top of having to pay them every month. HOAs aren't required by law but if a neighborhood has it you can't "opt out" of it as they are attached to the deed of the house. Therefore binding you to the contract.

    So basically your option is, if you don't like HOAs, don't buy a house that has it. Which isn't easy (almost impossible in some areas), and is just has hard as being told "don't buy a ps3 then" (but worse considering the money).

    I fucking hate HOAs and hope I never have to buy into them, but mostly the point is, when you own something you don't always own it completely. And you can't just base that whole reasoning on one example.

  19. #99
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    Geohot and others jailbreak the iphone to allow it to run programs that are not authorized by Apple and can even run programs for free that Apple charges for. Moreover it is possible to run pirated software. In a court decision, it was decided that the DMCA cannot protect Apple in this case, even when its in their best interest to lock down these features and prevent jailbreaking. Copyright law does not protect them. You can legally modify your iPhone and cellphones (to change carriers, for example). This exception was made to the DMCA in July 2010.

    Now, the same guy, Geohot, circumvents encryption protocols and modifies a Playstation console to do something very similar to the iPhone case: to allow it to run other OSes. Not only was this a feature implemented in PS3s beforehand, but it was marketed as such. Now, Sony removed it not only from new consoles but existing consoles. And yet, in this court case, they're winning against Geohot? Precendent has already been set. I would be very surprised if they defeat modders like Geohot and fail0verflow completely.

    As for the use of a EULA by Sony as an argument, its almost laughable that they think this will work. EULAs have been shown to be mostly unenforcable and are rather just scare tactics. Imagine buying a car, and money has exchange hands officially. You now own that car. As you get in your car to take your first drive, you find a man in a suit in the passenger seat. He says you must sign an agreement or you can't drive your car. The agreement says, among other things, that you can't modify your car, and that its not actually your car, but you're renting it from the company. Doesn't that seem strange?

    Its simply unlawful for EULAs to prevent you from dealing with your product as you wish, within copyright laws. And precendent has shown copyrights do not prevent you from modifying your hardware. In the case of PSN, it would only have an effect on games purchased from PSN. But disc based games and consoles? I don't think so.

    As for digital goods != physical goods, well we'll see about that. More cases are showing up where digital goods are shown to have actual value and are property that can be owned.

  20. #100
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    As Aurik already stated, the case pretty much hinges on whether the root key that Hotz posted can be considered a method of circumventing measures that controls access to copyrighted materials (Think DeCSS encryption algorithms). If Sony can prove that, the Hotz will lose the case for violating the DMCA. The other 7 or 8 charges are frivolous bullshit that will never hold up. Personally, I don't really want the door even remotely cracked open that Sony is trying to open.

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