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  1. #281
    Old Odin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    Does anyone know if there's a way to simulate the Fotia Belt/Gorget's 1% chance of preserving TP upon Weaponskill in Motenten's spreadsheets?
    add 1% weaponskill dmg that counts on all hits? (if that is possible), while this doesnt account for weaponskill delay

  2. #282
    Sea Torques
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    Odin

    Just started playing again recently and all this new WS math is a bit confusing, and difficult to find answers for. Here's my question; do we know if weapon skill damage +x% carries over to all hits in multi hit ws's like the ftp increase in the gorgets/belts? If it does; does it also carry over in single hit ws's on dual wield hits or double attacks? I've just gotten up to 11% WS damage on my taeon gear now so if no one knows I will go figure it out, so let me know. Thanks.

  3. #283
    Ridill
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    Bahamut

    No it doesn't and not all ws have ftp that applies to all hits either.

  4. #284
    Yoshi P
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    Bahamut

    Wasn't sure where to post this, this seemed like the right place I guess.

    What are the defining characteristics of a WS and TP piece of equipment? If you're not doing math to figure out what is optimal, what are the attributes one should look for when selecting particular piece of equipment for a WS and TP set? Also, what priorities should be set when it comes to Double Attack, Critical Hit Rate, Critical Hit Damage and Store TP.

    Apologies if this seems like a newbie question, but I wanted to understand the rationale behind the gear sets people typically select for their Melee jobs.

  5. #285
    Chram
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    Sylph

    How much those stats benefit you in comparison to other stats all depends on the weaponskill, how much of the mods you have, how much acc/atk you have, how much multi attack you have, whether you have AM3 up, your buffs, and what you're fighting. It's impossible to give easy answers for piece comparisons that aren't lopsided (like 1 DA vs 20 ATK, 10 STR on a STR mod WS).

    People generally use Motenten's spreadsheets to find the best pieces for common situations.

  6. #286
    Ridill
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    Bahamut

    It's a large case of it depends. A lot of those priorities just can't be determined without math. Best you can do is look at the formulas for calculating melee and ws dmg and then stat mods of said ws and work it from there

  7. #287
    Chram
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    Sylph

    Has it ever been tested whether innate attack bonuses/penalties on weaponskills are additive, or multiplicative with other percentage-based attack modifiers?

  8. #288
    Old Odin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    Has it ever been tested whether innate attack bonuses/penalties on weaponskills are additive, or multiplicative with other percentage-based attack modifiers?
    wouldnt that be a kind of a pita to test? My guess is additive since otherwise you would see a large gap just with fury as a buff

  9. #289
    BG Content
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    Lakshmi
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    I vaguely remember that they're additive but can't find any testing to support that.

  10. #290
    Cerberus
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    Leviathan

    Was Randgrith's FTP ever figured out? Think I saw someone say it was the last that needed tested when they updated it

  11. #291
    Melee Summoner
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    Quote Originally Posted by stamos View Post
    Was Randgrith's FTP ever figured out?
    Yes, I did some testing last year, though I think I did not actually post the results. Randgrith has an fTP of 4.25, not including the relic WSD% multiplier.

  12. #292
    Chram
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    Just tested whether Weaponskill attack penalties/bonuses are multiplicative or additive with other multiplicative modifiers.

    Test Conditions
    Target used:
    Fluffy Sheep (level 100)
    511 DEF
    Negligible VIT for fSTR purposes
    Each one was weakened enough so that the first hit of Resolution would kill. Resolutions that missed the first hit, and sheep that used Rage were discarded.

    Relevant offensive stats:
    120+21 DMG
    1527 ATK (+59.765625%, +153/256)
    251 STR
    +8% WS Damage

    Weaponskill used:
    3000 TP Resolution
    2.25 fTP, 85% STR mod, 15% attack penalty (will assume -38/256)

    Expected Values
    If multiplicative, 1297 ATK for Resolution
    wRatio = 2.538
    Pdif = 2.163-2.913
    Resolution damage = 1858-2628

    If additive, 1385 on ATK for Resolution
    wRatio = 2.710
    Pdif = 2.335-3.085
    Resolution damage = 2006-2793

    Results
    I did about thirty trials, and Resolution damage ranged from 2013 to 2613.

    Conclusion
    Inconclusive; I need more samples. I might do more samples when I have time later.

  13. #293
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    Dragon Kick is strange. Lore has its 1000TP fTP as 2, but I couldn't get that number to work out. SE directly told us that it has a 50% STR/DEX mod, so I consider that information more solid.

    MNK/SAM using Oatixur with 440+228 Skill, 286 STR, and 289 DEX getting exactly 1000 TP using Mamoolbane and 43 STP gave me a non-crit range of 3060-3206.

    MNK/SAM using Oatixur with 440+228 Skill, 275 STR, and 278 DEX and Foetia Gorget/Belt (+50/256 fTP) getting exactly 1000 TP using Mamoolbane and 43 STP gave me a non-crit range of 3328-3479. I also happened to miss the first hit three times, and the off-hand damage was 1543~1577.

    3BD+126WD+22fSTR+73Skill = 224 Hand damage

    Case 1: (224HD+287Mod)*fTP*3.25*(1~1.05)
    Case 2: (224HD+276Mod)*(fTP+50/256)*3.25*(1~1.05)

    The closest I can get manipulating only fTP is (1+216/256), which is a strange number to say the least.

    An alternative explanation is that the modifier is off, but this does not particularly fit the model either. For the WS to have 2fTP, the modifier would have to be approximately 30% (instead of 100%) to bring the change in upper/lower caps back down to the 1.097x change you would expect for (50/256+2)/2. Then you'd have to arbitrarily add base damage back in somehow and it would have to affect the offhand.

    The final possibility is that both are wrong and/or I'm calculating something wrong. I'm betting that I'm calculating something wrong, which is why I'm posting here. The offhand hits (should be 1.0 fTP) indicate that Case 2 has 462~475 base damage, which is less than the 500 we would predict from Hand Damage + Mod. I have no kick damage and footwork is down.

  14. #294
    BG Content
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    Mystery solved. Dragon Kick is 2 FTP and 50% STR/VIT, not STR/DEX. Thanks, SE.

    At least they got it wrong in both versions of the update notes.

    This also explains why Motenten's 2000 and 3000 fTP points were weird looking.

    Edit: JP wiki appears to have figured this out too

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