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Thread: Weapon Skills     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #61
    xXNyteFyreXx420Sharingan
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    <50% isn't necessary, it just increases the power of your test given the potential difference in hitrate. You could still get good results at even ~80% hitrate and drastically increased WS frequency would offset much of your loss in power.

  2. #62
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    So Lorax on FFXIAH is reporting Entropy doing 4.4k with a miss and easily breaking 6k with Apocalypse. I unlocked Resolution first, so can anyone tell me if they ninjabuffed the everliving crap out of Entropy?

  3. #63
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelia View Post
    So Lorax on FFXIAH is reporting Entropy doing 4.4k with a miss and easily breaking 6k with Apocalypse. I unlocked Resolution first, so can anyone tell me if they ninjabuffed the everliving crap out of Entropy?
    He says he knew he missed because he only got 22 tp back and that he ws in his tp set. But unless I miss something his tp set should get him 19.8 tp per hit and it being a 4 hit ws it sounds like he hit all 4. Anyways the dmg he posted is way way way away from what would be possible given what he said. Like it sounds more like using gorget and belt at 300% with a couple of DA/TA procs and soul eater. Also POIDH. Also his comparative 2.8k cata inside abyssea average seems really low... I mean that sounds more like an outside number just saying

  4. #64
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    Found some spare merits to unlock it (/MNK raping Wyverns solo for pages goes quick!)

    Nope, 1st hit looks normal and the same .75 around 100tp.


    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    But unless I miss something his tp set should get him 19.8 tp per hit and it being a 4 hit ws it sounds like he hit all 4.
    Store TP affects secondary hits too if you have enough of it (multiples of 10 really), which are for 1.3 in this case. 19.8 + 2 * 1.3 = 22.4 and 23.7 for four hits. Don't worry, lots of people screw that up.

    Even with gorget and belt (mind you he had to ask which to use) and 300tp he shouldn't average better than 3250 with 180 INT on 5/5. 4450 with Souleater, and all told maybe 6.4k with Souleater, Triple Attack, 300tp, and belt/gorget. I'm still calling bullshit because he was not saying he was using Souleater, had to ask what belt/gorget to use, and still did a way-too-high number in his TP set (4.4k on one missed when he'd need belt/gorget and all hits landed with Souleater to see that).

  5. #65
    Hydra
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    I think the WS belt and gorget work on all hits of Ruinator. with a 70 dmg weapon, 147 STR, landing 2 hits.

    70+70/9+8 = 85 base damage
    147*.85 = 124
    124+85 = 209
    if it only worked on the first hit we would get
    209*2.2*2.45 = 1126 for max damage done

    if it works on both hits we get
    209*2.4*2.45 = 1228 for max damage

    I have done 1175 and 1162 and 1156

    only did about 8 or 9 ws's and those were the ones that were above thought to be max. I didn't put the af3+2 body on so there should be no other boosts and I am on /SAM.

    Did I calculate that correctly?

  6. #66
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    Looks good to me, but I'd use 2.52 as max one-hander pDif (2.0 * 1.2 * 1.05) for 1158 and 1264. Your numbers are still decent to show it. For an average use 2.05 (2.0 * 1.0 * 1.025), and you get 942 and 1028, so if you showed the rest of your numbers it would be even easier to pin down. I do enjoy the 'break the max' method though.

  7. #67
    Masamune
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    Ruinator is 1-hander (Axe) Raellia

  8. #68
    Hydra
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    I tested it because the numbers I was getting in abyssea were higher than I had expected given my stats, with it working on all hits means the numbers make much more sense.

  9. #69
    xXNyteFyreXx420Sharingan
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    Gorget/belt works on all the new WS with <1.0 fTP, which includes Ruinator post-nerf.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masamune View Post
    Ruinator is 1-hander (Axe) Raellia
    Fixed, just a typo. Numbers I gave were for one-handed.

    Thanks for continuing to first assume I'm wrong, as usual.

  11. #71
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfyre View Post
    Gorget/belt works on all the new WS with <1.0 fTP, which includes Ruinator post-nerf.
    I thought ruinator was still 1? If it is less than 1 then his math is all wrong to begin with

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    I thought ruinator was still 1? If it is less than 1 then his math is all wrong to begin with
    He still showed an increase on two hits. If his baseline was off we'd have noticed it.

    It's more to do with the fTP being consistent across all hits (and so these aren't just 'extra' hits) that allows the gorget/belt to apply to all hits, not just fTP being <1.0.

  13. #73
    Ridill
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    Well yeah but still doesn't look like it's <1... or if it is by very little

  14. #74
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    My prior post in marginally fewer words: Being less than 1.0 fTP has nothing to do with gorget/belt working on all hits. This is a new mechanic entirely that secondary hits mirror the fTP of the first.

  15. #75
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    Also what I'm saying in lesser words what I'm saying has nothing to do with that mechanic. At most it is trying to counter the correlation between having that mechanic and having ftp <1

  16. #76
    xXNyteFyreXx420Sharingan
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    My mistake, didn't write the post very well and I was also under the false impression that Ruinator's fTP had been nerfed. Obviously it's not a product of the fTP being <1.0 and I don't know why you took it that way, but it is true that the new WS with < 1.0 fTP all have this characteristic. It's not exclusive to them though, Last Stand and apparently Ruinator say hi.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelia View Post
    Looks good to me, but I'd use 2.52 as max one-hander pDif (2.0 * 1.2 * 1.05) for 1158 and 1264. Your numbers are still decent to show it. For an average use 2.05 (2.0 * 1.0 * 1.025), and you get 942 and 1028, so if you showed the rest of your numbers it would be even easier to pin down. I do enjoy the 'break the max' method though.
    Not that I am really sure it's correct, but given the number used of 2.45 for pdif, I can only assume that comes from other wiki.
    "fMax(cRatio) = 1.2 x cRatio + 0.05 (Proven)" written on http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/PDIF
    cRatio = 2 for that formula would give 2.45 as fMax.
    The wiki also says there is a randomizer of 1.05 applied afterward. 2.45 * 1.05 = 2.5725

    If you use that value with the numbers given 209 * 2.2 * 2.5725 = 1182.83
    All of the high ruinator values provided would fall below this suggesting that the gorget/belt did not apply to all hits.

    However, bg-wiki's formula (Maximum Normal pDIF = 1.019 × cRatio + 0.485) does suggest that 2.523 should be the max pdif.

    Which is correct?

  18. #78
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    I wrote that page. The table portion is old and somebody's kludging of numbers without first reworking the order of operations as I did. You can probably shitcan the "1.2 x cRatio + 0.05"

    Follow the page from the start and you get a 2.0 ratio cap, no level correction, max pDif multiplier of 1.2 (which seems consistent for one-handers and two-handers alike, though I only test the latter), and max secondary randomization of 1.05.

    2.0 * 1.2 * 1.05 = 2.52 which agrees with the BGWiki numbers that are from extensive parsing and regression but still rather imperfect (because nobody writes a damage system by mashing their face on the numpad).

    tl;dr you took old crappy numbers that would stand alone and applied the new system to them which doubled some crap up. Ignore the charts at the bottom on otherwiki except maybe the bottom half of the 2-handed one.

  19. #79
    Masamune
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelia View Post
    ... which agrees with the BGWiki numbers that are from extensive parsing and regression but still rather imperfect (because nobody writes a damage system by mashing their face on the numpad).
    /nod. that's the point i stopped at, trying to find possible PDIF formula(s) (with 1, 2 or even 3 randomizers) that could yield a distribution graph similar* to what were parsed. Sadly i'm missing parses at cRatio<0.7 to get more "signatures" so can restrain even more the possible formulas.

    * similar in the way having same behavior when parameters evolves (ie STR, mobVIT, cRatio, ...) in the form of caps, floors, frequency spikes and trapezoidal shape.

    ...but i don't know how to test cRatio<0.7, and kinda lost the courage to do it...

  20. #80
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    Ok, did some accuracy test on Resolution to see if first hit accuracy bonus is carried over like its ftp to all hits.

    Pld/rdm, OAT GS, Abyssea-Grauberg Crabs

    Blind Potion up at all time, minimal gears, no store tp, no DA, atmas are Stronghold/Wing Gloom/Mountchamp

    Used kparser, normal hit accuracy was 55% throughout the test, no gear change during ws.

    After 43 WSs, first hit accuracy was 88% (oddly enough this should be 95%, but small sample is small sample), all subsequent hit accuracy were 62% (using total subsequent hits/(43x4)). None of the WSs were killshot, and none got stoneskined.

    I know the sample size is small, but the result is very obvious.

    So for those who plan to ignore accuracy and just stack str, you will have to be careful when fighting high tier VW. As for Ragnarok users, carry on.

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