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  1. #121
    Relic Weapons
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    WS - No gorget/belt

    104% - 578
    104% - 577
    106% - 558
    111% - 569
    104% - 575
    104% - 570
    104% - 574
    106% - 577
    104% - 570
    104% - 574



    WS - Gorget/Belt

    104% - 706
    104% - 707
    104% - 702
    104% - 711
    104% - 720
    106% - 720
    104% - 723
    104% - 718
    106% - 722
    106% - 712

    Besides that I was entirely nekked except polearm, 132 dmg.

    99+11 STR

    Target was East Ronf Wild Rabbits by the zone to Sandy.

  2. #122
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    And you are 5/5 Stardiver?

    If so, 110 STR = 93 base damage
    132 base from weapon
    22 from fSTR
    247 base damage
    578/3.15/247 = .743

    This gives a lower bound for fTP at 104 TP. So it was at least .743.


    723/3.15/247 = .930
    .75 + 50/256 = .945

    Looks about the same to me? I don't think there was a change, or if there was then it wasn't to the first hit fTP. Attack and whether or not gorget bonuses carry over to all hits would be likely candidates, if you still think there was a nerf.

  3. #123
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    Yeah sorry , 5/5 Stardiver. And I was just curious on if its FTP was changed based on what other people were saying. Glad to hear its not been lowered. Also thanks for working that out.

  4. #124
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    Um, so:
    https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Shockwave

    I don't know if anyone ever used to use this, but it seems fairly accurate these days and the duration is laughably long. Honestly I only did about 10 WSs before I got bored of it and warped because I was sitting around waiting forever for these damned sheep to wake up.

    The text on the page might be confusing, but what I mean is that I can use the same WS on multiple sheep (at the same time) and they will wake up at different times, up to 50% of the longest one's duration apart. The longest duration 300TP Sleep I had was 6 minutes.

  5. #125
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    I wonder if there's any fight that would last 6 minutes that sleep would work on enemies in...

  6. #126
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    Cleave for the soro player! lol. Mercy Stroke's aftermath is +5% crit rate, if it hadn't been rigorously tested before.

  7. #127
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    Err... I guess I shouldn't double post, but people might want to contribute to this and I would certainly love it if they would.

    There is a big class of weaponskills that we pretty much ignore the TP dependence of because it sounds so unimportant and makes the weaponskills sound so useless as a result.
    Shadowstitch: "Binds target. Chance of binding varies with TP."
    Flash Nova: "Delivers light elemental damage. Additional effect: Flash. Chance of effect varies by TP."
    Tachi: Ageha: "Lowers target's defense. Chance of lowering target's defense varies with TP."
    Mordant Rime: "Delivers a twofold attack that decreases target's movement speed. Chance of decreases movement speed varies with TP."
    Leg Sweep: "Stuns target. Chance of stunning varies with TP."

    I think you guys will agree that this description implies there is some static rate that you might bind, stun, flash, decrease movement speed, etc. when you use the weaponskill, like:
    Shadowstitch - 100TP : 50% chance, 200 TP : 75% chance, 300 TP : 100% chance
    Leg Sweep - 100TP : 50% chance, 200 TP : 75% chance, 300 TP : 100% chance

    However, the additional effects of all of these weaponskills are damned near unresistable. For example, I just bound lizards/rabbits in Terrigan 30 times in a row using Shadowstitch at 100 TP. The only failure was when I full-out missed. I'm pretty sure I would get the same result from any of the above WSs based on personal experience.

    I think this description is SE's way of saying "Additional Effect magic accuracy varies with TP." There is no base X% rate. It's just adding magic accuracy the way that Dancing Edge or Penta adds melee accuracy. Sorry if this was incredibly obvious to everyone, but I've always thought that the text on these weaponskills was incredibly misleading.

  8. #128
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    Yeah, the blue magic spells with that seem to work the same way. Feather Storm basically *always* poisons, f'rex

    I don't think they're actually irresistible. I have a feeling they're calculated using whatever your accuracy would be on the physical hit as the MAcc for that debuff.

    If the full acc of the first hit (including the large first hit acc bonus) transferred over as MAcc, that would explain why they land so well, and since spells are generally multistate, why they hit more often than 95% of the time.

    I know Tachi: Ageha defense down lands almost all of the time. I don't know why more SAM don't use it for that. The boost to TP phase damage should make up for the loss of WS damage given that it's a 3 minute duration. It's not *that* awful a WS.

  9. #129
    Yoshi P
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    If they work the same way as physical blue magic spells, accuracy is most definitely not carried over directly as magic accuracy. For example, back in the day at 75, you could stack accuracy against high level targets for sky/hnm/whatever to land head butt, but the stun would very rarely proc, despite the targets obviously not being immune to stun. Nowadays you can stun those targets easily, probably due to the jump in player level/blue magic skill.

    My guess would be that additional effect WS/bolts/blue magic/etc. use your skill in that weapon type (or blue magic) to determine base magic accuracy, + macc from gear/buffs, + some amount from whatever base stat it uses.

  10. #130
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    Opposite case actually. Initially, head butt was reliable. SE then nerfed it so that blue magic became more pertinent. That is why many DDs could match or beat a BLU's Bludgeon prior to the patch.

  11. #131
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    Flaming Arrow (back at it)

    Setup
    Job: 95RNG/47 BLM
    Weapon: Wooden Arrow + Loxley Bow (5+12+18 from fSTR = 35 damage)
    Stats: 88 STR, 104 AGI, 90 INT = 34 mod for this (see last post).
    Preliminary Checks:
    * Checked to make sure my RAtk was still capped on everything. It was. Every shot did 105 (35*3).
    * 300 TP : 207 damage (meleed half to death) vs. Wandering Sapling = Physical component only, works out for 69*3.

    Data:
    300 TP : 463 damage vs. Wandering Sapling = 256 damage from magic
    300 TP : 463 damage vs. Burned/Shocked Wandering Sapling = 256 damage from magic, fINT/MND seem to be capped
    300 TP : 463 damage vs. Jugner Leech = 256 damage from magic, target doesn't seem to be important
    300 TP : 490 damage vs. Wandering Sapling with Hecate's/Novio = 283 damage from magic, so it is affected by MAB
    283/1.37 = 206.change
    256/1.24 = 206.change
    206.change = 207 base, so this is either very coincidental or an fTP of 3 with a base damage of 69.

    Take off gear, 74 STR/86 AGI = 28 from mods so 63 total, 189 base from the main hit and 234 expected from additional effect + MAB. I used Ascerbic Sash to get here.
    300 TP : 423 damage vs. Jugner Leech = 234 damage from magic, INT doesn't seem to be a factor and it seems unlikely that the two terms sharing the same base damage is coincidence.

    102 TP : 335 damage vs. Wandering Sapling = 128 damage from magic = 104 base (~69*1.5)
    202 TP : 400 damage vs. Wandering Sapling = 193 damage from magic = 156 base (~69*2.25)

    Flaming Arrow, 16% STR, 25% AGI:
    100 TP - 1.5 fTP or 0.5 fTP * pDIF
    200 TP - 2.25 fTP or 0.75 fTP * pDIF
    300 TP - 3.0 fTP or 1.0 fTP * pDIF

    300 TP : 577 damage vs. Screamer (vulture) = Looks like Piercing Bonus applies to both the physical and magical part of the weaponskill.

    I have also missed Flaming Arrow, but never gotten only one hit of it and left the monster alive. The magic part is tied to the melee part.

    Wooden Arrow + Loxley Bow + Berserk, Brew, Warcry, Stalwart's, Velocity Shot, 3 RAtk Atma, 300TP, etc.
    12606 damage = 1146*11 = 382 base damage :: 347 from stat modifiers = 999*.41*.85 (works out)
    13959 damage with Ruszor Arrow instead = 1269*11 = 423 base damage :: 347 from stat modifiers (works out)

    I don't know what I did the last time, but this time everything works perfectly.

    I used Defender, removed all my Atma, got Acid Mist on, and went and shot a Wivre from point blank and max range for 12606 damage with a wooden arrow without food. I guess I can't overcome the massive attack bonus from the brew?


    I think it works like this:
    Hybrid WS damage = ( (Weapon Damage + fSTR + WSC) + (Weapon Damage + fSTR + WSC)*fTP*MAB ) * pDIF


    Edit: I thought of it as I was going to sleep and had to try it, so I got up and tried to use level correction to address the question or whether or not there is pDIF. Either brew eliminates level correction or overpowers it somehow (I didn't think that was possible), because I do 12606 damage to Audumbla and the nearby IT Bluffalo as a 75 RNG/WAR with Defender up.

    I also got two random 9916 ones that I can't really explain.

  12. #132
    xXNyteFyreXx420Sharingan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Um, so:
    https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Shockwave

    I don't know if anyone ever used to use this, but it seems fairly accurate these days and the duration is laughably long. Honestly I only did about 10 WSs before I got bored of it and warped because I was sitting around waiting forever for these damned sheep to wake up.

    The text on the page might be confusing, but what I mean is that I can use the same WS on multiple sheep (at the same time) and they will wake up at different times, up to 50% of the longest one's duration apart. The longest duration 300TP Sleep I had was 6 minutes.
    Eh, on second thought I think I'm going to open this discussion where it actually belongs. In the meantime, any idea of the sleep effect's affinity (dark/light/none)?

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfyre View Post
    Eh, on second thought I think I'm going to open this discussion where it actually belongs. In the meantime, any idea of the sleep effect's affinity (dark/light/none)?
    Ugh, I meant to check and forgot. I'd give you 5:1 on dark, but I don't know for sure.

  14. #134
    xXNyteFyreXx420Sharingan
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    I'll check in a couple minutes.

    EDIT: Well, I suppose the dark alignment symbol on the WS might have been a good clue, but I didn't remember that. It is definitely dark based though.

  15. #135
    Ridill
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    I didn't exactly parse or anything but proc rate didn't seem good on it. Like I was using it to skill up gswd on pld and most the mobs were attacking me most the time. Then again my gswd skill was severly under leveled...

  16. #136
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    I'm guessing skill is the primary determinant for sleep land rate.

  17. #137
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    Probably. On the other hand it is friggin awesome to skill up. Can pull alot more mobs even with a smaller percentage being slept. Especially with AOE skillups lol

  18. #138
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    SE made a statement recently that additional effects are related to "weapon skill rating (A, B, C, etc.)" Explains well enough why Silence from Guillotine was always damnably accurate, because if it's starting with a decent amount of accuracy from skill and just adding more based on TP it's probably getting to a very effective number.

    Guillotine is wind based from the icon, silences, makes sense then that Shockwave is dark element sleep just from the icon.

    I can tell you that Guillotine's silence used to last on Sky pots almost always for the entire time it took me to solo them, which was a solid 3-4 minutes.

  19. #139
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    Well, they adjusted a lot of the additional effect WSs a few patches ago when they added a second resist state for all of them (half duration), which is why I wented to re-test them. The second resist state would also explain why Shockwave is so much more accurate than people (including myself) remember.

    Now Guillotine is 60/90/120.

    I think that I finished all the "Duration Varies with TP" WSs (to my satisfaction) last night. My real FFXI install is all kinds of messed up and I can't reinstall until my bandwidth cap resets, so I will be spending the next week on the test server. I am trying to hammer out some WS information in anticipation of potentially moving to a new WS template.


    TP Modifier types: - This would ideally be something like 100/200/300% (columns) with values under them and a phrase like "Accuracy" on the right determined by the modifier type chosen. These are the current options for modifier types:
    • fTP (and whether or not it applies to all hits)- Tornado Kick 200/300TP and Sonic Thrust 200/300 TP are the two that come to mind.
    • WS Accuracy- Essentially untestable
    • WS Attack- Sturmwind, Blade: Shun, Requiescat
    • Defense Ignored- Camlann's torment 200/300TP, Wheeling thrust 200/300TP
    • Critical Hit Rate- Soooo many. I will never finish these and will likely focus on the important ones. Maybe Hexa, Rampage, Raging Rush, Blade: Jin, and Evisceration's 200 TP point.
    • Additional Effect duration- SE needs to fix Exenterator, Shattersoul, and Shijin Spiral if they haven't already
    • Additional Effect accuracy - Essentially untestable
    • Additional Effect probability (The same as Additional Effect Accuracy)
    • Aftermath Duration/Potency/Type - I would just handle this on a case-by-case basis with a link like Empyrean AM1, Relic Aftermath or Tizona AM1
    • AoE range- I have never heard of anyone testing this, but it doesn't seem particularly hard.
    The above is at least a week's worth of work, which probably means it won't all get done. I might actually skip all of it to focus on mythic aftermaths tonight, because they seem incredibly inconsistent.

  20. #140
    Masamune
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    That's what i initially wanted to do (especially critbased WSs).... until i realized a lot of testing methods were relying on pDIF, which is still inconsistent nowadays...

    Can still gather parses with controlled and well documented parses, keep them in a corner till that freaking pdif gets finally settled.

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