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  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    As a generic guide to picking an alliance for Voidwatch NMs:
    1) Bring real tank jobs with real support
    2) Earthen Armor and Sentinel's Scherzo make a lot of fights easier, but most are possible even without them.
    3) Stun order is often useful.
    4) Ranged damage, Summoners, or Black Mages for damage sources. You already have the last two if you're following points 2 and 3.
    5) If you want to proc weaknesses and actually get drops, fill the rest of your slots with a ton of random jobs.

    Sound about right? Basically, pre-Abyssea standard strategy with Scherzo and Earthen Armor mixed in?

    Out of curiousity, do people know where in the damage formula EA/Scherzo procs? I assume it's at the final point when damage is finalised?

    Mainly thinking is it actually more beneficial to not have stuff like Shell/MDT/PDT/DT on so that it procs more often? Or does it calculate whether it procs or not before they are factored in?

  2. #482
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    I'm pretty sure it's after all other forms of damage reduction (except Manawall, I think?). Whether or not it's a good idea to have Shell on with EA/Scherzo on is kind of a tricky question, but I'd volunteer that the answer is no for your typical fight against most of the Voidwatch NMs that I've heard described. If every nuke and magical TP move that a monster does is >75% of your HP without Shell, but some are <75% of your HP with Shell, then you're less safe with Shell on than without it.

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    As a generic guide to picking an alliance for Voidwatch NMs:
    1) Bring real tank jobs with real support
    2) Earthen Armor and Sentinel's Scherzo make a lot of fights easier, but most are possible even without them.
    3) Stun order is often useful.
    4) Ranged damage, Summoners, or Black Mages for damage sources. You already have the last two if you're following points 2 and 3.
    5) If you want to proc weaknesses and actually get drops, fill the rest of your slots with a ton of random jobs.

    Sound about right? Basically, pre-Abyssea standard strategy with Scherzo and Earthen Armor mixed in?
    1. yea, agreed on tank part and agreed on real support(dedicated non mule healers)
    2. yes and yes
    3. stun order AFTER 50%. dont let mobs build resistant to it as they are barely dangerous pre 50%
    4. BLM is a must anyway for red %s, so thats DD covered. SMN is good to have but BLM is seriously better for procing and damage over time, and stun. eg. good to have 1 smn 2 blm, than 1 blm 2 smn. COR with wildfire is massive in VW. RNG with wildfire too. Gandiva is suicide and you get cursed alot by ur friends.
    5. Ability/WS are blue %s. Magic is red %. Eventually its down to luck how you can fill them up, but to get the best chances on QUALITY DROPS(even tho you still get quality garbage), make sure you cover all magics(except fucking blu. you can sacrifice that category....BLU usually die to AOE while casting majority of the spells and their list is massive.....). stop procing ability/ws when blue is cap, and vice versa for red unless you run out of luck procing something and u need a new category unlocked. Ability/ws wise, its luck who you bring lol....dont be too happy if you get SMN blood pacts. SMN blood pacts list are massive zzz

    add tidal wave into 2. mix and it helps alot too

  4. #484
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    Thanks for the tips. I turned everything into this mini-guide:
    https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:...Strategy_Guide

  5. #485
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    for those who have weird groupings or like to do things the unconventional way, know that the higher you go you can actually substitute tanks with avatars, but you'll need like a full party of 6 to be safe. They should all be self sufficient tho, and are great for zombieing / back up tanking, because most of the way, especially from the start, players are more focused on proccing that DD - hate is gentle enough for avatars to hold.

    like in a majority of the Celaeno and Voidwrought battles ive done, its avatars tanking - usually 3 are engaged at a time, and preferably sicced from different directions. they can mainly BP to secure hate - you don't have to worry about killing T4s too fast (cos usually you won't if all you're doing is BPing for avatar tanks and trying to proc).

    Celaeno is majorly wind-based, so garuda and shiva work well - they'll take extremely low dmg from aeroja, typhoan rage and something else. Wings of Agony will still damage them tho. Your NM isn't going to hold still quite as much, because avatar movement isn't quite as controlled, but your proc party (as long as they know how to move) will mostly be safe.

    Voidwrought isnt quite as elementally based, but he does cast Thundaja so Ramuh and Titan are both good -they're also ideal in the sense that both of them have stun BPs and Titan can use Earthen Armor to help hold.

    Never personally fought Hahava but I'm willing to bet that he can be held by a bunch of Ifrit/Leviathans...

    BST pets are not as good for this because as much as the damage to them can be mitigated, the NMs often don't play fair with their high-damage / element aligned TP moves - lower tiered NMs are also known for their death and doom.. so you'll be severely restricted by the Call Beast timer - especially when the NM is at lower HP.

  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacoTaru View Post
    I haven't kept up with the thread at all, but going off what Byrth posted, a party 6 isn't going to cut it, but would 12 make do? Or do you need a full 18 man alliance for these fights?
    If you're just trying to kill, you can do most (if not all) of them with a party of 6, I'd wager. One or two tanks (two for added safety) a DD (Ranger or BLM ideal) and three support should make every single one of them manageable barring any unlucky string of events. Not a 100% win tactic but definitely feasible for good and experienced groups.

    That being said, you won't be getting your lights up without a lot of luck using only 6 people. I think someone said they got unique drops without getting lights up though?

  7. #487
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    you can definitely get good gear without building lights at all, just much lower odds..
    the KI (periapt/atmacite) however has its % chance directly pegged to light and starts at 0%, so as long as you don't proc white at least once (25%) you will never get the KI.

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michelob View Post
    If you're just trying to kill, you can do most (if not all) of them with a party of 6, I'd wager. One or two tanks (two for added safety) a DD (Ranger or BLM ideal) and three support should make every single one of them manageable barring any unlucky string of events. Not a 100% win tactic but definitely feasible for good and experienced groups.

    That being said, you won't be getting your lights up without a lot of luck using only 6 people. I think someone said they got unique drops without getting lights up though?
    I'd agree that you can do most with using 6 people. Definitely all T1s/T2s. As for T3's, we haven't tried Bastok or Windy T3's yet, but I can see the Behemoth on the Sandy path as being very annoying for a lowman group. It will get access to Meteor after 50% and it really helps to down him very fast after that point. Lowman groups will be plinking away and will keep getting Thunderbolt stunned (range is high on it, very hard to move away if you are trying to heal tanks).

    As for T4, the sheer amount of damage Hahava puts out might drain a lowman group's healer MP and a 6-man group will find themselves running right up against the 30 minute deadline if you only have 1-2 dedicated DD since it has 70,000 HP.

  9. #489
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    I don't see Hahava being a problem for 6 well prepared and top geared players if all you're doing is taking it down and ignoring weaknesses. Behemoth maybe but I think a group with a proper set up and strat could see it done. With both temp item periapts you get quite a few useful temps that make a pretty large difference while low man especially.

  10. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michelob View Post
    I don't see Hahava being a problem for 6 well prepared and top geared players if all you're doing is taking it down and ignoring weaknesses. Behemoth maybe but I think a group with a proper set up and strat could see it done. With both temp item periapts you get quite a few useful temps that make a pretty large difference while low man especially.
    But what would be in that 6 man party? Let's say you have an Aegis/Ochain PLD, RDM, BRD (?), WHM, BLM (to stun Vengeance?), and 1 DD. I put RDM/BRD in there because the WHM will absolutely need some Ballad or Refresh help to keep up with the healing, because even if the DD's time everything well and move in and out to WS, you just KNOW they will catch AOE here and there. It's really the -50% damage that is the issue, and the fact he has 70,000 HP to get through in 30 minutes.

  11. #491
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    We could probably do hahava with 6 (haven't tried but our set up was basically that) using ochain pld ukon war whm whm brd rdm. I wouldn't really see a point in doing it without procs though. Ochain really does help but tbh a pld w/ full pdt/mdt sets and tacos can hold hahava decently well. The only time where it's actually gotten shitty for us was weakeness > curse > unstunned magic taking out the pld; if going with 6 just to kill I'd probably just easymode it with smns lol.

  12. #492
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    A small note on Hahava about Raksha/Yaksha Stance.
    Raksha Stance is only MDT-50% while Yakska is PDT-50% (ranged attacks included), it seem to switch between the two about every 2~ min or so.

  13. #493
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    It can use the following TP moves after Raksha Stance (which dispel 3 buffs and gives it MDT-50%) :
    Raksha: Judgment (AoE magical damage, amnesia/bind/silence, 600~800 dmg)
    Raksha: Illusion (cone attack magical damage, para/curse -50% hp/mp, 800~1200 dmg and hits from VERY far away)
    Under 50%(?)
    Raksha: Vengeance (AoE magical damage, 1 min weakness/muddle, 800~1200 dmg, can be stunned)

    After Yashka Stance (PDT-50%) :
    Yaksha: Damnation (cone attack physical damage, 400~600 dmg)
    Yaksha: Bliss (cone attack physical damage, ATK/MAB down, 200~500 dmg)
    Under 50%
    Yaksha: Oblivion (AoE physical damage, all stats down -110, 1300~2200 dmg, can be stunned too but the window is much shorter)

    He has already the Yashka Stance effect at the start (at least for us, maybe it's random).
    You only need to pay attention for Raksha: Vengeance after Raksha Stance. I'm pretty sure this move is used under 50% like Yaksha: Oblivion.

    When you know all of this it becomes even more a joke. Smn can switch between Predator Claw and Merit BP depending on the "Stance".

  14. #494
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    Thanks for all the info folks, and great work on http://wilddragonchase.com/ffxi/voidwatch075.png . If any shells are doing voidwatch on odin I'd be glad to join, /tell me in-game or drop me a PM on here or ffxiah.com. Thanks!

  15. #495
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    we in diff time zone cdgreg else i woulda PM you ;(

    my group is currently 9 members + mules...lol yea our entire LS got a mule haha

    we wouldnt mind to swap a mule for a real player tho, more relax XD

  16. #496
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    You could kill any of the mobs with jsut a tank and some smns, but you wouldnt proc which is the point. Seems they want 18 man allys now instead of people lowmanning stuff.

  17. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthars View Post
    Gandiva is suicide and you get cursed alot by ur friends.
    This, for sure.

  18. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthars View Post
    we in diff time zone cdgreg else i woulda PM you ;(

    my group is currently 9 members + mules...lol yea our entire LS got a mule haha

    we wouldnt mind to swap a mule for a real player tho, more relax XD
    Ya, I may send you a PM this summer when I'm off from work (teacher), I have a mule too lol! Congrats on 90 Gandiva, just saw SS in other thread.

  19. #499
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    Sooo how you get past this Krabimanjaro, can only do this crap with shouts because nobody is interested in it lol.

  20. #500
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    The crab stinks with its hate reset. I heard best way is to melee burn it after 50


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