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Thread: New MMO by SE     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #61
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    I think they need to stop, seriously, unless they're ready to make something modern and not just something with pretty graphics. They have not even proven to the world they can't make anything other than grindfest games with UI's that are from the 1990's also poor poor gameplay that has not been the staple since the late 90's.

    I wish they would just dump the wasted money into my bank account, at least I'd put it to better use.

  2. #62
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevex View Post
    How many sci-fi MMORPGs are there? I can't think of any.
    eh, there have been, but they never seem to do really well. Probably the two that did the best was the old Star Wars MMO and Eve.

    Star Trek failed, Tabula Rasa failed, the new Star Wars MMO is having so many issues it sounds like, it'll probably fail.

    Not to say that it's doom to failure because they are futuristic, but I can imagine SE may not want to risk it considering all the money loss they've had.

  3. #63
    blax n gunz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevex View Post
    How many sci-fi MMORPGs are there? I can't think of any.
    Off the top of my head:

    EVE Online (space ship combat + colonization/mining/economics simulation)
    Matrix Online
    Star Wars Galaxies
    Hellgate: London tried to be this...kind of (it tried to be everything, really, so it hardly counts as 'sci-fi' when ZOMGDEMONS was the prevailing theme)
    Star Wars The Old Republic will be one

    But I take your failure to think of one as perhaps supporting the idea that there's room in the MMO market for such a game. But the barrier for entry is still as high as it would be for a High Fantasy MMO (i.e. it has to be able to lure people away from other MMOs esp. World of Warcraft).

    I get the feeling that unless PopCap or Zynga makes one, there are few 'virgin fresh' customers left for MMOs to bring into the genre. They're all just poaching from each other at this point. Part of the reason I'm so pessimistic about SE's foray into a THIRD MOTHERFUCKING MMO is that they will only succeed in killing off FFXIV for good, or FFXI for good, or both. Maybe that's a good thing since the new game will infuse retail box sales cash into their coffers and command more overall dollars via The Inevitable...*ahem*...Cash Shops are pretty much the future of MMOs, like it or not, and so far the infrastructure for either doesn't exist in their current MMO offerings.

  4. #64

    Yeah I think the MMO genre has been staple lately because if you break them down, they're pretty much all the same.
    Pick a race > pick a class (and if you break these down, it boils down to tank/rogue/mage with fancy names)> (optional) enjoy the early game exploring the usual fantasy envirorments > grind till you reach the level cap > enjoy the endgame till you get tired and quit.
    If a game doesn't do that better than WoW, then said game is doomed to fail sooner or later.
    Even if an emerging MMORPG happens to be better than WoW, why would a WoW player restart from scratch to play a game that is mostly the same as then one he/she's playing?

    The problem with FFXIV was that SE tried to copy the other MMORPGs instead of being unique.
    SE is more than capable of creating original games, they just need to try harder.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevex View Post

    The problem with FFXIV was that SE tried to copy the other MMORPGs instead of being unique.
    SE is more than capable of creating original games, they just need to try harder.

    No the problem with SE is that they're graphics and CGI teams are 5-10 years ahead of the system designers. Sure they can have awesome cut scenes, intro's, awesome looking models but the rest of the developers who are responsible for gameplay, feature systems are 5-10 years BEHIND the curve.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Correction View Post
    Off the top of my head:

    EVE Online (space ship combat + colonization/mining/economics simulation)
    Matrix Online
    Star Wars Galaxies
    Hellgate: London tried to be this...kind of (it tried to be everything, really, so it hardly counts as 'sci-fi' when ZOMGDEMONS was the prevailing theme)
    Star Wars The Old Republic will be one
    Wasn't Matrix Online completely shut down?

    There's also Anarchy Online - old as fuck, but still somehow going.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevex View Post
    The problem with FFXIV was that SE tried to copy the other MMORPGs instead of being unique.
    Not even that. They've thought about copying other games and then just butchered down anything they used. XIV was a step back from anything it may have been copying from.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Correction View Post
    Cash Shops are pretty much the future of MMOs, like it or not, and so far the infrastructure for either doesn't exist in their current MMO offerings.
    I disagree. They have their placing in dying mmo's and lower-budget mmo's. But high budget mmo's, unless they pushing out an extreme amount of "real" content each month or every other month, will never survive on F2P. Just using WoW as an example.. It takes em, on average, 5-7 months for a major content patch. If the game was F2P they could never get away w/ content at that slow of a pace unless they had some retarded money sinks that basically forced you to P2P on a daily basis. That monthly fee goes into "supposed" higher quality content at a slower pace

  8. #68
    blax n gunz
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    Cash Shop is not the same as F2P. Both Aion and WoW are pay to play, but have cash shops for in-game items. And it is a ridiculously easy way to make gobs of cash. MMO developers would be stupid to not wring every drop of money out of the idea going forward.

  9. #69
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    Oh, I misunderstood. As long as the cash shop doesn't affect anything in game I could care less. Ive bought 2 WoW pets before from the shop (lol), and cosmetic stuff is fine. But ya, it's a stupidly easy way to make extra profit on a mmo

  10. #70
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Correction View Post
    Cash Shop is not the same as F2P. Both Aion and WoW are pay to play, but have cash shops for in-game items. And it is a ridiculously easy way to make gobs of cash. MMO developers would be stupid to not wring every drop of money out of the idea going forward.
    by that definition, I would consider cash shops are an extention that future mmos can utilize, not necessary the future of mmos.

    As you pointed out there are extremely varying degrees of cash shops in mmos. I would agree with katlan if we're going with those that make the majority of good gear/equipment through a shop would be the dying and cheap mmos. Whereas the stonrger ones like WoW, just use it for extra cash here and there.

  11. #71
    blax n gunz
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    Y'all are reading too much into my use of 'the future.'

    I'm talking about long-term economic success. The idea that an MMO can grow and succeed on subs alone is antiquated and ignores the realities imposed by the saturation of your potential subscriber base. Players who pay for their MMO avatar toys/clothes help companies make their initial investments back MUCH faster, paying for continued development at a pace that the players will be happy with. Remove that revenue stream and you've got a company running in the red longer and struggling to increase a subscriber base on the promise of new content alone, while the clock ticks on the 'oops current subs are dropping because they're out of content to play with' MMO Doomsday Timer. This is the situation FFXIV currently finds itself in and it's costing SE tens of millions of dollars.

    Nowhere in this equation does the cash shop need to dictate design decisions like 'players who don't buy the items are at a disadvantage.' It does so in practice for f2p games, which is why I mentioned Zynga, but it doesn't have to.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    yap. I don't think WoW ever had a "problem" when it came to subs. I'm sure there was a little up and down before the miracle patch 6 months in (fixing glitches), but vanilla was definitely not any kind of failure because of endgame content.
    I'd be interested to see what the numbers were like at the time because i don't really think it exploded until everyone and their mother could raid.

  13. #73
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alderaan View Post
    I'd be interested to see what the numbers were like at the time because i don't really think it exploded until everyone and their mother could raid.
    It definitely was a success wayy before vanilla was no longer vanilla. You have to understand that when it was released, it's competition was pretty much EQ, lineage, and FFXI. All three of which were level grinds (people forget that FFXI in many ways was just an EQI clone that was successful because of the different class system, insane graphics, and could be played on the ps2...well and FF fanboyz).


    Wow succeeded in that the actually leveling was insanely easy in comparison to those three MMOs. Of course, some went to it then went back to FFXI, EQ, lineage, because they didn't like the easiness and felt even then wow wasn't an "accomplishment". However it opened up a floodgate for those that tried the three and hated the concept of a lvl grind. I remember playing FFXI the first year and had so many friends never even get to 60 before quitting, all those friends still play wow to this day. WoW really was the first real solid game for the casual player. Which is why people were willing to stick with it.

    [edit] you have to think back to what was going on in vanilla in comparison to other MMOs at that time. Sure not everyone could raid in WoW, but a lot more could raid in WoW than could get shit done in the other three.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Correction View Post
    I don't see how it runs any deeper into a company than the decision-making engine that steers the in-house creative talent in one direction or the other. SE's past five years on consoles and PCs has been a comedy of bad decisions in rapid fire.
    I disagree. I absolutely loved 12 and 13. I ragequit FFXI after a few years and gave FFXIV about 5min of my time before writing that off, so I'm not a total fanboy or anything. But their console games have been wonderful, imo. But you need to make an MMO to be quite different from a console game and I think they don't get that. Or at least Tanaka doesn't.

    Stop letting Tanaka develop your MMO's, SE.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alderaan View Post
    I'd be interested to see what the numbers were like at the time because i don't really think it exploded until everyone and their mother could raid.
    Quick searches turned up the million milestones, I don't have month-to-month numbers

    Mar 2006 - 6 million
    Sept 2006 - 7 million
    Jan 2007 - 8 million
    July 2007 - 9 million
    Jan 2008 - 10 million
    Oct 2008 - 11 million
    Oct 2010 - 12 million
    Mar 2011 - 11.4 million

    Lich King came out in Nov 2008
    ToC 10/25 was out Aug 2009
    ICC 10/25 came out Dec 2009
    Frostwing Halls gate came down Feb 2010

    15% buff (about the time ICC bosses started dropping like fucking flies on shit) came out 04-27-2010, heralding the era of 'everone and their mother can raid.' It's difficult to measure how much this impacted their subscriber numbers because by then the growth had slowed so much. Probably didn't hurt their reach to 12mil, and the loss of interest in Cata raiding almost completely explains the drop back down to 11.4mil.

  16. #76
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    I never get tired of swords and sorcery. That's like asking if FPS fanboys get tired of drag and click headshots and frags. As long as the game is done well, I will support it so long as it holds my interest.

  17. #77
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    Why are we even comparing Vanilla WoW (6+ years old) to a current MMO (Rift)? People always do this, but why.. who the fuck cares. that was 6 years ago and standards have gone up. What WoW did then doesn't work anymore. And the fact is that most ppl quit rift before they even got toe end game raid because getting there sucks some major ass.

    here is a fact: if wow stayed at it's vanilla state the game would not be around in evven 1/10th of its current strength. So a game that copies Vanilla Wow is not gonna have a lasting appeal either to many since most ppl didn't like vanilla wow

    Also. Alderan is the Rift white knight like mioko and hyan used to be for XIV. take your defense elsewhere, I would prefer not to see this thread turn into a Rift vs WoW vs something else discussion

  18. #78
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    double.. work net is lagging

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katlan View Post
    Why are we even comparing Vanilla WoW (6+ years old) to a current MMO (Rift)? People always do this, but why.. who the fuck cares. that was 6 years ago and standards have gone up. What WoW did then doesn't work anymore. And the fact is that most ppl quit rift before they even got toe end game raid because getting there sucks some major ass.

    here is a fact: if wow stayed at it's vanilla state the game would not be around in evven 1/10th of its current strength. So a game that copies Vanilla Wow is not gonna have a lasting appeal either to many since most ppl didn't like vanilla wow

    Also. Alderan is the Rift white knight like mioko and hyan used to be for XIV. take your defense elsewhere, I would prefer not to see this thread turn into a Rift vs WoW vs something else discussion
    Taking my statement out of context. My point was, you cannot go the route of making your endgame for the 5% crowd today and be super successful.

  20. #80
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    I guess they will announce at E3 like they id with XIV. A little part of me is saying "Oh god why" then again, another part is saying "Oh god YES" Let's hope they learned from their mistakes (again) and don't repeat them (again)

    The worst part is I think they are doomed no matter what. They could release the best game ever known to man, but yet people will look back at the failure of XIV and not even give it a try. Makes me think why would they even announce this now, seems they should wait till they fix (if they ever can) XIV, to prove to the customers that they can provide quality entertainment.

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