Help! Collecting Information on JAs!

[Byrthnoth]

Okay, sweet. I was typing out a response to this and my post got eaten. Summary is:

Casey/Dragoons :

Spoiler: show

Thanks for the testing, looks like Spirit Surge doesn't have a damage bonus on top of its other bonuses. I suspect Spirit Link is actually 0CE/0VE, which is what I suspect Reward is too.

I think all Pet commands might really have infinite range. It does seem that monsters need to be within a certain radius of the target in order to receive them though. For instance, if I have movement speed on BST and I run up to a monster (outdistance my pet) and give the "Fight" command, my pet doesn't attack it if it was too far behind me when I gave the order.

There has already been testing on Lancer's Vambraces +2, I think, if that helps to guide you: https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Lancer%27s_Vambraces_%2B2

Alkimi/White Mage :
Thank for the testing. I'm surprised to see the damage required is so low, but I guess that makes sense if it's going to reset every hit. Before you bother making an exact relationship, do you know how Stoneskin affects it? If you don't actually take damage (hit for 0 by a hard monster) does it still charge your Banish?

crolion/Thief :
Thanks for that suggestion. Have you done the test? Do you know what the +1 body does? This is a nice possibility because it's so easy to test. THF/BST, hit something with a low level weapon 10 times without getting hit, charm it, check TP, Leave. Wait for it to fully regen (and then some), Conspirator, 10 hits, charm it, check TP, Leave.

Slycer/COR :
Thanks, I'll remove the verification tags. Do you know where the Critical Hit Rates from Rogue's Roll came from? I came up with very similar numbers when I tried it, but my attempt was marred by reliance on Fencer for some values (stupid Fencer).

[Byrthnoth]

Climactic Flourish -> Viper Bite = Critical Hit
Climactic Flourish (AF3+2) -> Viper Bite = Crit Hit +20%
Climactic Flourish (AF3+2) -> Rudra's Storm = Crit Hit +20%

Going to Dynamis to test on higher HP monsters now.

[Deader2818]

So this means Climactic can 100% crit proc rudra's storm now?

[Byrthnoth]

Yeah, once every 1.5 minutes but with an additional 20% damage bonus from AF3+2 head and no directional dependence. Looks like Evisceration is my weaponskill opener now.

It only applies to the first hit of WSs, courtesy of Blacklion from Lakshmi.

1866 against a trash dynamis monster, only the first hit landed.

[Byrthnoth]

Friend (Phaffi) tested the Cover bonus to cap out at +15 seconds (he's 5/5 Cover merits) and cap out at 134 VIT (81+53). Pretty random number. He was testing it more when the server went down.

I added stuff that needs to be tested from this update to the OP.

[Yugl]

@ Dragoon: 40% Seems quite high for a boost; The multiple enfeeble removal has been tested by someone using Brenner.

[Suljin]

SMN:
Caller's pigaches +1 add an additional 25 mps to siphon while +2 add 40 more mps returned.

PUP:
DEA is (1/3)Lvl * hp/mp for starting stats when used (even though with windower it shows auto at 29% @lvl 90 thats because 1/3 XXXX hps is YYY.## and it rounds down).
Retrieve: I dont know the actual distance but i've been on the opposite side of a zone and retrieved poppo before, so if there is a distance its quite large.

I'll try to find more info later for you too if I can.

[Jeryhn]

MNK:
Dodge - iirc, I believe the numbers came about because of the testing on Focus, as in the numbers on Focus and enhanced Focus were determined, and so the numbers on Dodge were conjectured to be similar.
Mantra - Range is the same as Warcry, iirc.

WHM:
Misery - Echoing the sentiments that Cura and Banish seem to increase by up to 2x numerical effect when the WHM takes somewhere between 200 and 250 points of damage, non-cumulative. No noticeable effect on Banish's defense-lowering effect on undead. Misery also does not enhance Sacrifice in any way, Solace is what makes Sacrifice absorb up to seven status effects.
Something else to note about WHM/PLD - Holy has a much shorter range of execution than most attack spells, but it still seems to be longer than most JAs that target monsters, such as Provoke.

SMN:
Assault - Same range as Provoke or Jump (numbers here kinda useless due to varying mob-sizes). Bloodpact: Rage (Command) has the same range as well, as well as Bloodpact: Ward (Command) that target specific party members (Healing Ruby, basically). Physical Bloodpact: Rage (Action) have about the same range as a weaponskill or a Dancer executing a Step (also varies according to mob-size), whereas Magical Bloodpact: Rage (Action) have the same range as most BLM spells. Bloodpact: Ward (Action) have about the same range as a mob casts spells (which is much longer than when a PC casts spells), and avatars will continue to execute party-buff Wards even when their "target", usually the summoner, is not in the effect range (Although all party-buff Wards regard the summoner as the avatar's target, the effect of these AoE radiate from the avatar.) - however, it is possible to command a Ward, have the summoner move out of mob spell range, and the avatar will not complete the Action because the summoner is too far away.

[Byrthnoth]

I spent the night testing some JA Enmity and such and updated the OP. Thanks for all of the information guys. If you feel I missed something, please let me know. I'd love to see more PUP testing, as that's something I can't do myself.

Weird note of the night, Mana Wall appears to have very strange Enmity properties. I actually got the first hint of this when I was doing my Evasion tests and used it, then all the mandies on me went and raped my poor mule, but it appears to shed Enmity somehow.

1) Player 1 pulls with Threnody (300 CE) <-- Has Hate
2) Player 2 uses 3x Threnody (300 CE) -> 2x Cure (2 CE for a total of 302 CE) <--- Has Hate
3) Player 1 activates Mana Wall (300 CE + Manawall) <-- gets hate, then loses it pretty quickly (I assume 1 CE at this point)
4) Player 1 uses Blind (301 CE + Manawall) <-- gets hate, then loses it pretty quickly (... what?)
5) Player 1 uses Blind 9 more times (310 CE + Manawall) <--- Still can't keep hate
6) Player 1 uses Threnody x3 (610 CE + Manawall) <--- finally gets and keeps hate
7) Player 2 uses Cure once for 0 HP (303 CE) <--- gets hate (lucky!)
8 ) Player 2 gets crit hit once for 1 damage (302 CE) <--- loses hate
9) Player 2 casts Cure once for 0 HP (303 CE) <--- gets hate back

So it looks like I lost more hate than I have? I got hit for 0 twice. Once immediately after activating Mana Wall, and once after 5 Blinds. I'm betting that, instead of coding Mana Wall to lose Enmity based on HP, they gave it a static Enmity per hit lost.

[dasva]

Or maybe you lost emnity based on the hp you would've lost? Or the mp you lost? I'm betting the first since manawall was just an extra reduction term they added at the end so could've just left the emnity where it had been or something

[Byrthnoth]

I'm getting hit for 0 by level 0 monsters, so it's probably not that. I did more testing, looks like 180 CE per hit. I don't know if it scales up when damage is actually taken.

[dasva]

Oh like no mp loss?

[Byrthnoth]

Yeah, and they hit me for 0 unless they crit and get very lucky.

180 CE lost is an okay deal, I guess, but I think you lose more enmity taking damage with HP on hard stuff? It assumes you lose 10% HP per hit.

Enmity Douse appears to set the BLM's Enmity to 1 CE, which means the Goetia Sabots +2 testing is going to be . . . fun. <_< The two options that I see are:
1) Normal Enmity Douse doesn't reset VE <--- Not this, definitely resets VE.
2) It lets you Enmity Douse the guy in front of you as well, or something. <--- Not this, no effect on my mule's CE.
3) Enmity Douse is actually -XXXX Enmity, and I haven't gotten my CE high enough to find out what XXXX is, but Goetia Gloves increases it. <--- Not this, it dumped 9999 CE for me just now.
4) Not like Super Jump. Works even when you don't have hate. <--- Testing on the talk page.

Anyone have any more ideas?

[dasva]

Maybe for a short time affects emnity gain or loss?

[Byrthnoth]

Good idea, but it doesn't look like it:
* Player 1 Pulls with Threnody (300 CE)
* Player 2 casts 3x Threnody (300 CE)
* Player 1 uses Enmity Douse (1 CE)
* Player 1 uses 3x Threnody as fast as I could following Enmity Douse (300 CE) <-- Player 1 gets hate back after all three and the rabbit turns towards him briefly even after the first Threnody.

So it's definitely not -Enmity. It could be increased enmity lost when taking damage or increased VE decay rate, but that'd be a silly effect considering the JA sets your VE to 0. Also, based on the way the monster was looked at me every time I cast Threnody, for increasing amounts of time, I'd say that it's probably not increased VE decay rate.

I'm going to test if it extends the Enmity Douse range some small amount. - Nope

[Archain]

* Trick Attack'd Weapon Skills with Skillchain. Who gets Skillchain hate?

The Trick Attacked target gets the hate associated with the skillchain.

I confirmed this using Tiamat as my target a while ago by performing chain Hides with my weaponskills. I had my Hide timer down to 4:10 with merits (you can laugh, but I loved Hide) and used to make my weaponskill the ONLY action under TA that I'd perform on Tiamat until the very end (to intro myself into the queue for Treasure Hunter reasons). I used to close a Kasha/Shark Bite skillchain while under Hide resulting in a Light skillchain for the BLMs to burst Thunder on. When I'd have my TP ready for the next skillchain, I was able to use Hide again despite the fact that the Tricked weaponskill closed a skillchain.

The skillchain did not introduce me into Tiamat's hate queue and allowed me to continue a chain Hide until I messed up and performed an intro action (like striking Tiamat by accident or performing an Accomplice/Collaborator).

[Byrthnoth]

* Trick Attack'd Weapon Skills with Skillchain. Who gets Skillchain hate?

The Trick Attacked target gets the hate associated with the skillchain.

I confirmed this using Tiamat as my target a while ago by performing chain Hides with my weaponskills. I had my Hide timer down to 4:10 with merits (you can laugh, but I loved Hide) and used to make my weaponskill the ONLY action under TA that I'd perform on Tiamat until the very end (to intro myself into the queue for Treasure Hunter reasons). I used to close a Kasha/Shark Bite skillchain while under Hide resulting in a Light skillchain for the BLMs to burst Thunder on. When I'd have my TP ready for the next skillchain, I was able to use Hide again despite the fact that the Tricked weaponskill closed a skillchain.

The skillchain did not introduce me into Tiamat's hate queue and allowed me to continue a chain Hide until I messed up and performed an intro action (like striking Tiamat by accident or performing an Accomplice/Collaborator).

This is what I remember too, but for less concrete reasons. Thanks for the info!

Tonight I intend to finish up the Enmity tests that I can do (BST, WAR, SMN), and test Conspirator's Acc bonus.


For Paladin Shield Bash, I kind of think that SE lol'd out and just gave different base Bash damage dependent on shield size. Aegis/O.Chain are 25 base, Size 3 are 65 base, I don't have numbers for the other three types of shield. If some level 90 Paladin can go bash some shit for me with different types of shield, that'd be fab. I'm going to try and test it at lower levels if my mule has PLD15.

[Martel]

Shield Bash DMG

Buckler(bloom buckler) 25
Round(Royal squire's) 38

As kite and Ochain are known I'll skip them.

I don't have a tower shield handy. Aren't even any on the AH. Might borrow a friend's tatami shield later, if we don't know by then.

[dasva]

Maybe it can effect emnity on the mob in general?

[Martel]

Tower(Tatami) 90 dmg shield bash.