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Thread: Stats and how they work.     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #381

    Which part are you referring to?

  2. #382
    D. Ring
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    Among recipes in the game, there are those for which the rate of progress and chance of success are increased by higher Craftsmanship, and those for which they are determined by Magic Craftsmanship. Control helps to reduce the occurrence of aetherial sparking (see below), and exerts its influence over both types of recipes just mentioned.

    All recipes, however, have set attribute requirements. Attempting a recipe with attributes below those required will result in lessened progress and quality, even for successful actions.
    Bolded sections, mostly. The top part says the relevant stat affects progress and success rates (success/neutral/failure). The bottom part says that while all stats play a role, the rest of the stats only exert influence over progess and quality (not success rates).

    But, like I said, how seriously can we take a super old quote that had to go through translation? /shrug

  3. #383

    Considering I was able to easily craft an R40 completely naked using a weathered tool I'd say there's no "minimum" requirement as far as craft/mcraft go.

  4. #384
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    I assume crafting works like gathering does, in that every level up, you gain an innate X amount of craft/m.craft/control, so that would explain that. Just a guess, of course.

  5. #385

    It just seems like an arbitrary way of renaming dLvl, but to determine it definitively would require more thorough/specified tests.

  6. #386
    Hydra
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    if you zip some craft .log files for me in the next hour I can add this to the new parser for 1.22. I dont' have any off hand. (i'm at work now, and once i'm home tonight I have 5 days off for 1.22)

    Can easily track the results of synths and export em to a file.

  7. #387
    Kaeko
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    Almalexia noted that after some preliminary testing with Garuda's Talons, the WS damage not only did not go down, but actually might have gone up. I decided to run a quick series of tests to see what was going on (seen in the quote).

    Preliminary data shows that auto-attack stat caps are based on the base damage where as the WS stat caps are based on the calculated weapon "DPS" value.

    Have fun burning Garuda lol

    **********

    So t recap what this test was, I took an R50 ARC and made sure to hit the stat caps at 334PIE/303DEX. I then switched weapons around for different base damage / delays / levels by choosing different bows and arrows. Some bows had extra ATK bonuses so I used gorgets to balance ATK at static 511. For these tests, I will analyze the results as if the PIE/DEX stat caps have been reached in every case.

    Here's my prelim data set:
    http://imgbox.com/aawk6uhA

    Some of the 'dev' ranges weren't near 8.0% but I felt this is a pretty good data set to eyeball general trends off of.

    A lot of your initial thoughts turned out to be spot on. To go over a couple of key points I took out of this:

    (1) Auto-Attack / Light Shot seems to be based on the base damage
    Being able to play around with both the weapon and arrow combos made it possible to test what happened to light shot if the base damage was the same, but the level of the weapon and the DPS/delay was different. In separate 2 comparisons (one at base 72, other at base 106), the auto-attack damage was the same despite differences in DPS, delay, and level of the weapon. Note that the WS damage on Wide Volley did change. The left chart is a simple plot that shows the relationship between base damage and damage dealt by light shot when stats are capped. I did not force it to intercept 0 just to see how close it would be (it was pretty damn close).

    (2) Weapon Skill damage appears to be based on DPS.
    Couple things here. First off, when you plot DPS vs. damage dealt by wide volley (curve at the bottom right), you get an incredibly nice linear curve with an intercept very close to 0. This gives very strong evidence that the "DPS" calculated value is the major variable that determines the WS stat caps. We can also remove level of the weapon as a variable because when comparing trial 2 vs. trial 3, Wide Volley damage was higher with a lower level weapon. I think the prelim data set is pretty convincing - DPS is the main modifier for the WS stat caps.

    I think the biggest question now is how do the stat caps change with increasing base damage for auto-attack and DPS for WSs. We could brute force our way to the answer by simply running a series of large scale tests similar to Seiken's; however, I think we can save ourselves some time. The curves were very linear. If we can find the "per point increase in damage per +1 stat", we can back calculate the stat caps. I'll try to think of a test methodology for this.

    Another question is if all WSs have the same cap. This would take a bit more testing though. From eyeballing, it seems like it should. I remember talking to Valk a couple weeks ago and he noted that all WSs seem to follow similar patterns while auto-attack is separate.

    Last question I would offer up is what happens in these scenarios if the stats are NOT capped? Does a higher base damage weapon become more favorable if stats cannot be capped? As your DPS value rises, it becomes more and more difficult to cap stats. Is it worth pushing "DPS" on the weapon if you cannot cap the relevant stats (or require sacrificing too much ATK to do so)?

    ****

    Thinking ahead to how this information can be used to min-max in actual in-game scenarios...

    I think the focus of weapon selection should shift towards DPS for melee jobs. The vast majority of your total melee damage comes from WS damage. The only possible exception to this is ARC/BRD, which deals a significant amount of damage output from Light Shot (which includes Barrage). You can potentially make the case for prioritizing Base Damage for ARC/BRD. If we exclude the ARC argument for now, this makes Garuda weapons followed by GC weapons the 2 best options for damage output.

    Let me know if you have any critique or thoughts! Pretty interesting stuff that really changes the way we'll be thinking about melee min-maxing.

  8. #388
    But I don't want my title changed
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  9. #389
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    Color me what the fuck I don't even

  10. #390
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    Harder, better, faster, stronger

    Daft Punk knew this was coming all along.

  11. #391
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  12. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeko View Post
    Preliminary data shows that auto-attack stat caps are based on the base damage where as the WS stat caps are based on the calculated weapon "DPS" value.
    I could've sworn I saw a JP lodestone diary entry that talked about this, but for the love of me I can't seem to find it again.

    But at the very least, I will say I can confirm this from a different source.

  13. #393

    Trying to wrap my head around this:

    For AA stat caps are determined by DMG.
    For WS stat caps are determined by DPS

    For high DMG low DPS weapons you need more stats to cap AA damage but less to cap on WS.
    For lower DMG higher DPS weapons you need less stats to cap AA but more to cap WS.

    So essentially when using low DMG/high DPS weapons you need to balance yourself so that you're not wasting too much gear overcapping stats for AA but need to maintain enough over the AA cap to get the most out of the higher caps for WSs?

    Does that make sense?

  14. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro
    Trying to wrap my head around this:

    For AA stat caps are determined by DMG.
    For WS stat caps are determined by DPS

    For high DMG low DPS weapons you need more stats to cap AA damage but less to cap on WS.
    For lower DMG higher DPS weapons you need less stats to cap AA but more to cap WS.

    So you essentially when using low DMG/high DPS weapons you need to balance yourself so that you're not wasting too much gear overcapping stats for AA but need to maintain enough over the AA cap to get the most out of the higher caps for WSs?

    Does that make sense?
    http://seoulbeats.com/wp-content/upl...e-chan-wtf.png

  15. #395
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    SE finally figured out a way to make weapon delay effect weapon skill damage...

    Are they fucking retarded?
    Yep.

  16. #396
    Falcom is better than SE. Change my mind.
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    So wait... Gardua melee weapons might actually be wroth the dropped DMG?

    MY MIND!!!!!!

  17. #397
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    Dropped damage, it's looking like yes.

    Their DPS is higher, which is the exact point.

  18. #398
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    Yeah... this is odd.

  19. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    Dropped damage, it's looking like yes.

    Their DPS is higher, which is the exact point.
    Whoops, my bad. I have a habit of saying DPS.

  20. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Jorildyn View Post
    SE finally figured out a way to make weapon delay effect weapon skill damage...

    Are they fucking retarded?
    Yep.
    Actually, it's perfectly sensible design. Otherwise fast weapons would have been doomed to suck until the end of time. What I don't like is the stat cap thing. It makes gearing more complicated and unintuitive than it should be.