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  1. #141
    Campaign
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    6,557
    BG Level
    8

    Thanks for the rest, didn't have the time to test it myself but I was figuring stuff like Job Points not being included in the doubling part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    The magic accuracy buff has never been quantified (since it's magic accuracy), but it's massive enough that there's a 0% chance that it's a placebo effect.
    I trust you, I don't remember if I ever noticed this during the level 75 era, the only thing I remember from then is going /BLM at Khimaira to rotate NiTro Elegy...
    And these days, I dunno, my macc set is good enough that most of the times I can stick debuffs on everything that's not immune, at least in a few tries. Don't think I ever noticed differences with SV up. I did notice differences with NiTro Up of course, but I usually have both up at the same time and never SV alone so it would have been hard to notice a SV-exclusive macc bonus.


    Still on stuff like Wopket for example, even with max AM1, my macc debuff set (which may not be BiS but it's still pretty good), FrazzleII on Wopket, COR Macc Roll on myself, Soul Voice up AND NiTro up I still get resist messages from Elegy.
    It wouldn't bother me if i were an immunity message, but the fact I'm getting resists just annoys me. Think once I even have a -meva bubble from GEO.
    Oh well, I'm going OT.
    Thanks for clarifying the part about Macc bonus on SV.


    @Ophannus
    Yes, even on VD the BLM isn't immune. I remember on a pretty fail PUG run that took a lot of time, before I completed my Carnwenhan, I manged to sleep a second time without NiTro, SV and Elemental Seal. I had to threnody, took me several tries and sadly didn't last much. (I fucked up and accidentally came with wrong subjob, so I didn't have Elemental Seal)

  2. #142
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    22,476
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    Quote Originally Posted by Sechs View Post

    Still on stuff like Wopket for example, even with max AM1, my macc debuff set (which may not be BiS but it's still pretty good), FrazzleII on Wopket, COR Macc Roll on myself, Soul Voice up AND NiTro up I still get resist messages from Elegy.
    It wouldn't bother me if i were an immunity message, but the fact I'm getting resists just annoys me. Think once I even have a -meva bubble from GEO.
    I haven't tried to elegy it but as a general statement a mob can be effectively immune without being completely immune. ie you'd normally have a 0% chance to land but immunobreaks and stymie can change that. So there is a chance it's not you but him

  3. #143
    Old Merits
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,093
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Ragnarok

    So I tested a bunch of geo spells at varying skill levels

    I'm pretty hopeless at figuring out formulas. So I thought I'd post here and some one mathy could give it a try.

    Haste
    Code:
    Haste													
    bell?	geo	bell	Tskill	GEO+	base	after	haste	skillInc min	sec	totalsec vs0GEO+ per GEO+
    	394	394	394		180	153	15		2	33	153		
    	399	394	399		180	153	15	5	2	33	153		
    	404	394	404		180	153	15	5	2	33	153		
    	409	394	409		180	153	15	5	2	33	153		
    	414	394	414		180	152	15.55	5	2	32	152		
    	419	394	419		180	152	15.55	5	2	32	152		
    	424	394	424		180	152	15.55	5	2	32	152		
    	429	394	429		180	152	15.55	5	2	32	152		
    	433	394	433		180	151	16.11	4	2	31	151		
    1	394	394	788		180	132	26.66	355	2	12	132		
    1	399	394	793		180	132	26.66	5	2	12	132		
    1	404	394	798		180	131	27.22	5	2	11	131		
    1	409	394	803		180	131	27.22	5	2	11	131		
    1	414	394	808		180	131	27.22	5	2	11	131		
    1	419	394	813		180	130	27.77	5	2	10	130		
    1	424	394	818		180	130	27.77	5	2	10	130		
    1	429	394	823		180	130	27.77	5	2	10	130		
    1	433	394	827		180	130	27.77	4	2	10	130		
    1	424	409	833		180	130	27.77	6	2	10	130		
    1	429	409	838		180	129	28.33	5	2	9	129		
    1	433	409	842		180	129	28.33	4	2	9	129		
    1	394	394	788	5	180	121	32.77		2	1	121	6.11	1.222
    1	433	412	845	5	180	118	34.44	57	1	58	118		
    1	394	394	788	10	180	111	38.33		1	51	111	11.67	1.167
    1	433	412	845	10	180	108	40	57	1	48	108
    Fury
    Code:
    fury											
    bell?	geo	bell	Tskill	GEO+	base	after	%	+	skillInc vs0GEO+ per GEO+
    	394	394	394		882	1037	17.57	155			
    	399	394	399		882	1040	17.91	158	5		
    	404	394	404		882	1040	17.91	158	5		
    	409	394	409		882	1040	17.91	158	5		
    	414	394	414		882	1043	18.25	161	5		
    	419	394	419		882	1043	18.25	161	5		
    	424	394	424		882	1047	18.7	165	5		
    	429	394	429		882	1047	18.7	165	5		
    	433	394	433		882	1050	19.04	168	4		
    1	394	394	788		882	1154	30.83	272	355		
    1	399	394	793		882	1154	30.83	272	5		
    1	404	394	798		882	1157	31.17	275	5		
    1	409	394	803		882	1157	31.17	275	5		
    1	414	394	808		882	1161	31.63	279	5		
    1	419	394	813		882	1161	31.63	279	5		
    1	424	394	818		882	1161	31.63	279	5		
    1	429	394	823		882	1164	31.97	282	5		
    1	433	394	827		882	1164	31.97	282	4		
    1	424	409	833		882	1167	32.31	285	6		
    1	429	409	838		882	1167	32.31	285	5		
    1	433	409	842		882	1171	32.76	289	4		
    1	394	394	788	5	882	1274	44.44	392		13.61	2.722
    1	433	412	845	5	882	1291	46.37	409	57		
    1	394	394	788	10	882	1395	58.16	513		27.33	2.733
    1	433	412	845	10	882	1412	60.09	530	57
    Precision
    Code:
    Precision											
    bell?	geo	bell	Tskill	GEO+	base	after	%	+	skillInc vs0GEO+ per GEO+
    	394	394	394		777	799	2.83	22			
    	399	394	399		777	799	2.83	22	5		
    	404	394	404		777	799	2.83	22	5		
    	409	394	409		777	800	2.96	23	5		
    	414	394	414		777	800	2.96	23	5		
    	419	394	419		777	800	2.96	23	5		
    	424	394	424		777	801	3.08	24	5		
    	429	394	429		777	801	3.08	24	5		
    	433	394	433		777	801	3.08	24	4		
    1	394	394	788		777	820	5.53	43	355		
    1	399	394	793		777	821	5.66	44	5		
    1	404	394	798		777	821	5.66	44	5		
    1	409	394	803		777	821	5.66	44	5		
    1	414	394	808		777	821	5.66	44	5		
    1	419	394	813		777	822	5.79	45	5		
    1	424	394	818		777	822	5.79	45	5		
    1	429	394	823		777	822	5.79	45	5		
    1	433	394	827		777	823	5.92	46	4		
    1	424	409	833		777	823	5.92	46	6		
    1	429	409	838		777	823	5.92	46	5		
    1	433	409	842		777	823	5.92	46	4		
    bell?	geo	bell	Tskill	GEO+	base	after	%	+	skillInc vs0GEO+ per GEO+
    1	394	394	788	5	777	845	8.75	68		25	5
    1	399	394	793	5	777		0	0	5	0	
    1	404	394	798	5	777		0	0	5	0	
    1	409	394	803	5	777		0	0	5	0	
    1	414	394	808	5	777	846	8.88	69	5	25	
    1	419	394	813	5	777		0	0	5	0	
    1	424	394	818	5	777		0	0	5	0	
    1	429	394	823	5	777		0	0	5	0	
    1	433	394	827	5	777	848	9.13	71	4	25	
    1	424	409	833	5	777		0	0	6	0	
    1	429	409	838	5	777		0	0	5	0	
    1	433	409	842	5	777		0	0	4	0	
    1	433	412	845	5	777	849	9.26	72	3		
    bell?	geo	bell	Tskill	GEO+	base	after	%	+	skillInc vs0GEO+ per GEO+
    1	394	394	788	10	777	870	11.96	93		50	5
    1	399	394	793	10	777	871	12.09	94	5	50	
    1	404	394	798	10	777		0	0	5	0	
    1	409	394	803	10	777		0	0	5	0	
    1	414	394	808	10	777	871	12.09	94	5	50	
    1	419	394	813	10	777		0	0	5	0	
    1	424	394	818	10	777	872	12.22	95	5	50	
    1	429	394	823	10	777	872	12.22	95	5	50	
    1	433	394	827	10	777	873	12.35	96	4	50	
    1	424	409	833	10	777	873	12.35	96	6	50	
    1	429	409	838	10	777	873	12.35	96	5	50	
    1	433	409	842	10	777	873	12.35	96	4	50	
    1	433	412	845	10	777	874	12.48	97	3
    Barrier
    Code:
    Barrier											
    bell?	geo	bell	Tskill	GEO+	base	after	%	+	skillInc vs0GEO+ per GEO+
    	394	394	394		896	1099	22.65	203			
    	399	394	399		896	1102	22.99	206	5		
    	404	394	404		896	1102	22.99	206	5		
    	409	394	409		896	1102	22.99	206	5		
    	414	394	414		896	1106	23.43	210	5		
    	419	394	419		896	1106	23.43	210	5		
    	424	394	424		896	1109	23.77	213	5		
    	429	394	429		896	1109	23.77	213	5		
    	433	394	433		896	1113	24.21	217	4		
    1	394	394	788		896	1218	35.93	322	355		
    1	399	394	793		896	1218	35.93	322	5		
    1	404	394	798		896	1221	36.27	325	5		
    1	409	394	803		896	1221	36.27	325	5		
    1	414	394	808		896	1225	36.71	329	5		
    1	419	394	813		896	1225	36.71	329	5		
    1	424	394	818		896	1225	36.71	329	5		
    1	429	394	823		896	1228	37.05	332	5		
    1	433	394	827		896	1228	37.05	332	4		
    1	424	409	833		896	1232	37.5	336	6		
    1	429	409	838		896	1232	37.5	336	5		
    1	433	409	842		896	1235	37.83	339	4		
    1	394	394	788	5	896	1428	59.37	532		23.44	4.688
    1	433	412	845	5	896	1445	61.27	549	57		
    1	394	394	788	10	896	1638	82.81	742		46.88	4.688
    1	433	412	845	10	896	1655	84.7	759	57
    Voidance
    Code:
    Voidance											
    bell?	geo	bell	Tskill	GEO+	base	after	%	+	skillInc vs0GEO+ per GEO+
    	394	394	394		612	641	4.73	29			
    	399	394	399		612	641	4.73	29	5		
    	404	394	404		612	641	4.73	29	5		
    	409	394	409		612	642	4.9	30	5		
    	414	394	414		612	642	4.9	30	5		
    	419	394	419		612	642	4.9	30	5		
    	424	394	424		612	643	5.06	31	5		
    	429	394	429		612	643	5.06	31	5		
    	433	394	433		612	643	5.06	31	4		
    1	394	394	788		612	669	9.31	57	355		
    1	399	394	793		612	669	9.31	57	5		
    1	404	394	798		612	669	9.31	57	5		
    1	409	394	803		612	670	9.47	58	5		
    1	414	394	808		612	670	9.47	58	5		
    1	419	394	813		612	670	9.47	58	5		
    1	424	394	818		612	671	9.64	59	5		
    1	429	394	823		612	671	9.64	59	5		
    1	433	394	827		612	671	9.64	59	4		
    1	424	409	833		612	672	9.8	60	6		
    1	429	409	838		612	672	9.8	60	5		
    1	433	409	842		612	672	9.8	60	4		
    1	394	394	788	5	612	699	14.21	87		30	6
    1	433	412	845	5	612	703	14.86	91	57		
    1	394	394	788	10	612	729	19.11	117		60	6
    1	433	412	845	10	612	733	19.77	121	57
    Acumen
    Code:
    Acumen											
    Target	Blanched Mandragora		lvl	100							
    caster	PLD/SCH 99/49										
    INT	135										
    MAB	0										
    MDMG	0										
    bell?	geo	bell	Tskill	GEO+	base	after	%	+	skillInc vs0GEO+ per GEO+
    	394	394	394		100	120	20	20			
    	399	394	399		100	120	20	20	5		
    	404	394	404		100	120	20	20	5		
    	409	394	409		100	121	21	21	5		
    	414	394	414		100	121	21	21	5		
    	419	394	419		100	121	21	21	5		
    	424	394	424		100	121	21	21	5		
    	429	394	429		100	121	21	21	5		
    	433	394	433		100	121	21	21	4		
    1	394	394	788		100	134	34	34	355		
    1	399	394	793		100	134	34	34	5		
    1	404	394	798		100	134	34	34	5		
    1	409	394	803		100	134	34	34	5		
    1	414	394	808		100	134	34	34	5		
    1	419	394	813		100	135	35	35	5		
    1	424	394	818		100	135	35	35	5		
    1	429	394	823		100	135	35	35	5		
    1	433	394	827		100	135	35	35	4		
    1	424	409	833		100	135	35	35	6		
    1	429	409	838		100	135	35	35	5		
    1	433	409	842		100	136	36	36	4		
    1	394	394	788	5	100	149	49	49		15	3
    1	433	412	845	5	100	151	51	51	57		
    1	394	394	788	10	100	164	64	64		30	3
    1	433	412	845	10	100	166	66	66	57
    Malaise
    Code:
    Malaise											
    Target	Blanched Mandragora		lvl	100							
    caster	PLD/SCH 99/49										
    INT	135										
    MAB	0										
    MDMG	0	Spell	Stone								
    bell?	geo	bell	Tskill	GEO+	base	after	MDB-	DMG+	skillInc vs0GEO+ per GEO+
    	394	394	394		100	108	-8	8			
    	399	394	399		100	108	-8	8	5		
    	404	394	404		100	108	-8	8	5		
    	409	394	409		100	108	-8	8	5		
    	414	394	414		100	108	-8	8	5		
    	419	394	419		100	108	-8	8	5		
    	424	394	424		100	108	-8	8	5		
    	429	394	429		100	108	-8	8	5		
    	433	394	433		100	108	-8	8	4		
    1	394	394	788		100	114	-13	14	355		
    1	399	394	793		100	114	-13	14	5		
    1	404	394	798		100	114	-13	14	5		
    1	409	394	803		100	114	-13	14	5		
    1	414	394	808		100	114	-13	14	5		
    1	419	394	813		100	114	-13	14	5		
    1	424	394	818		100	114	-13	14	5		
    1	429	394	823		100	114	-13	14	5		
    1	433	394	827		100	116	-14	16	4		
    1	424	409	833		100	116	-14	16	6		
    1	429	409	838		100	116	-14	16	5		
    1	433	409	842		100	116	-14	16	4		
    1	394	394	788	5	100	138	-28	38		-15	-3
    1	433	412	845	5	100	140	-29	40	57		
    1	394	394	788	10	100	175	-43	75		-30	-3
    1	433	412	845	10	100	178	-44	78	57
    Other debuffs will come later, if at all. This testing would be extremely annoying in ballista. Considering that there's a gear change between every test.

  4. #144
    Relic Horn
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    3,478
    BG Level
    7

    Fighting Colkhab I noticed that an Immanenced Spell will still produce a skillchain even if the actual spell hit a shadow.


    Also its curse does not only prevent HP recovery but MP recovery from Sublimation or Myrkr, too.

  5. #145
    Old Merits
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,093
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Ragnarok

    More GEO stuff. Some of these were more just about checking the current values than about trying to find a formula.

    Gravity
    Code:
    Gravity									
    bell?	geo	bell	Tskill	GEO+	base	Move%-	skillInc vs0GEO+ per GEO+
    	394	394	394		0	-8			
    	399	394	399		0		5		
    	404	394	404		0		5		
    	409	394	409		0		5		
    	414	394	414		0		5		
    	419	394	419		0		5		
    	424	394	424		0		5		
    	429	394	429		0		5		
    	433	394	433		0	-8	4		
    1	394	394	788		0	-14	355		
    1	399	394	793		0		5		
    1	404	394	798		0		5		
    1	409	394	803		0		5		
    1	414	394	808		0		5		
    1	419	394	813		0		5		
    1	424	394	818		0		5		
    1	429	394	823		0		5		
    1	433	394	827		0	-14	4		
    1	424	409	833		0		6		
    1	429	409	838		0		5		
    1	433	409	842		0	-14	4		
    1	394	394	788	5	0	-18		-4	-0.8
    1	433	412	845	5	0	-18	57		
    1	394	394	788	10	0	-22		-8	-0.8
    1	433	412	845	10	0	-24	57
    Frailty
    Code:
    Frailty											
    bell?	geo	bell	Tskill	GEO+	base	after	%	-	skillInc vs0GEO+ per GEO+
    	394	394	394		734	676	-7.9	-58			
    	399	394	399		734		0	0	5		
    	404	394	404		734	676	-7.9	-58	5		
    	409	394	409		734	673	-8.31	-61	5		
    	414	394	414		734	673	-8.31	-61	5		
    	419	394	419		734				5		
    	424	394	424		734				5		
    	429	394	429		734				5		
    	433	394	433		734	673	-8.31	-61	4		
    1	394	394	788		734	636	-13.35	-98	355		
    1	399	394	793		734				5		
    1	404	394	798		734				5		
    1	409	394	803		734				5		
    1	414	394	808		734	636	-13.35	-98	5		
    1	419	394	813		734	633	-13.76	-101	5		
    1	424	394	818		734				5		
    1	429	394	823		734	633	-13.76	-101	5		
    1	433	394	827		734	633	-13.76	-101	4		
    1	424	409	833		734	633	-13.76	-101	6		
    1	429	409	838		734	633	-13.76	-101	5		
    1	433	409	842		734	630	-14.16	-104	4		
    1	394	394	788	5	734	536	-26.97	-198		-13.62	-2.724
    1	433	412	845	5	734	530	-27.79	-204	57		
    1	394	394	788	10	734	435	-40.73	-299		-27.38	-2.738
    1	433	412	845	10	734	430	-41.41	-304	57
    Torpor
    Code:
    Torpor											
    bell?	geo	bell	Tskill	GEO+	base	after	%	-	skillInc vs0GEO+ per GEO+
    	394	394	394		631	609	-3.48	-22			
    	399	394	399		631		0	0	5		
    	404	394	404		631		0	0	5		
    	409	394	409		631		0	0	5		
    	414	394	414		631		0	0	5		
    	419	394	419		631		0	0	5		
    	424	394	424		631		0	0	5		
    	429	394	429		631		0	0	5		
    	433	394	433		631	607	-3.8	-24	4		
    1	394	394	788		631	588	-6.81	-43	355		
    1	399	394	793		631		0	0	5		
    1	404	394	798		631		0	0	5		
    1	409	394	803		631		0	0	5		
    1	414	394	808		631		0	0	5		
    1	419	394	813		631		0	0	5		
    1	424	394	818		631		0	0	5		
    1	429	394	823		631		0	0	5		
    1	433	394	827		631	585	-7.29	-46	4		
    1	424	409	833		631		0	0	6		
    1	429	409	838		631		0	0	5		
    1	433	409	842		631		0	0	4		
    1	394	394	788	5	631	563	-10.77	-68		-25	-5
    1	433	412	845	5	631	559	-11.41	-72	57		
    1	394	394	788	10	631	538	-14.73	-93		-50	-5
    1	433	412	845	10	631	534	-15.37	-97	57
    fend/fade results unusable due to ballista related bullshit.
    Spoiler: show
    Fend
    Code:
    Fend											
    Target	Arduwyn	GEO99/SCH49									
    INT	135										
    MDB	0										
    caster	Martel	PLD99/SCH49									
    INT	135										
    MAB	0										
    MDMG	0	
    Spell	Stone								
    bell?	geo	bell	Tskill	GEO+	base	after	MDB+	DMG+	skillInc vs0GEO+ per GEO+
    	394	394	394		100	79	26	0			
    	399	394	399		100			0	5		
    	404	394	404		100			0	5		
    	409	394	409		100			0	5		
    	414	394	414		100			0	5		
    	419	394	419		100			0	5		
    	424	394	424		100			0	5		
    	429	394	429		100			0	5		
    	433	394	433		100	78	28	0	4		
    1	394	394	788		100	70	42	0	355		
    1	399	394	793		100			0	5		
    1	404	394	798		100			0	5		
    1	409	394	803		100			0	5		
    1	414	394	808		100			0	5		
    1	419	394	813		100			0	5		
    1	424	394	818		100			0	5		
    1	429	394	823		100			0	5		
    1	433	394	827		100			0	4		
    1	424	409	833		100			0	6		
    1	429	409	838		100			0	5		
    1	433	409	842		100	69	44	0	4		
    1	394	394	788	5	100	62	61	0		19	3.8
    1	433	412	845	5	100	61	63	0	57		
    1	394	394	788	10	100	55	81	0		39	3.9
    1	433	412	845	10	100	55	81	0	57
    I kinda wonder about my fend values. I mean, I'm certain the base and after dmg are accuratly recorded. But I'm not so sure about my calculations to determine MDB.

    I maybe should have used a higher dmg spell... some of the dmg values could match more than MDB value.

    Idris, 79~81 MDB could have resulted in 55 dmg.
    788 skill+ Geomancy+5 , 59~61 MDB.
    845 skill GEO+5, 61~64 MDB

    Fade
    Code:
    Fade											
    Target	Arduwyn	GEO99/SCH49									
    INT	122										
    MDB	0										
    caster	Martel	PLD99/SCH49									
    INT	171										
    MAB	0										
    MDMG	0	
    Spell	Stone								
    bell?	geo	bell	Tskill	GEO+	base	after	MAB-	DMG+	skillInc vs0GEO+ per GEO+
    	394	394	394		100	89	-11	0			
    	399	394	399		100			0	5		
    	404	394	404		100			0	5		
    	409	394	409		100			0	5		
    	414	394	414		100			0	5		
    	419	394	419		100			0	5		
    	424	394	424		100			0	5		
    	429	394	429		100			0	5		
    	433	394	433		100	88	-12	0	4		
    1	394	394	788		100	83	-17	0	355		
    1	399	394	793		100			0	5		
    1	404	394	798		100			0	5		
    1	409	394	803		100			0	5		
    1	414	394	808		100			0	5		
    1	419	394	813		100			0	5		
    1	424	394	818		100			0	5		
    1	429	394	823		100			0	5		
    1	433	394	827		100			0	4		
    1	424	409	833		100			0	6		
    1	429	409	838		100			0	5		
    1	433	409	842		100	82	-18	0	4		
    1	394	394	788	5	100	62	-38	0		-21	-4.2
    1	433	412	845	5	100	62	-38	0	57		
    1	394	394	788	10	100	42	-58	0		-41	-4.1
    1	433	412	845	10	100	41	-59	0	57

  6. #146
    Ridill
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    Those fade/fend were in pvp I assume? And those base values are base supposed to be calculated base dmg before spell? After the actual dmg with the buff/debuff up?

  7. #147
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    In the case of fend/fade Base is the dmg the spell did without the buff/debuff. After is the dmg with buff/debuff.

    Edit. and yes, tested in ballista. I don't believe there's any modification of nukes in PVP. iirc, it was just multi-hit ws that had a dmg nerf.

  8. #148
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    There is a modification (I think they didn't want people sneaking up on others and doing 2k nukes back when taru melees had what 1200 hp?) though it's weird and I could never really figure it out and how it worked with other forms almost didn't seem static. It's kinda small like 49 dint stone should be dealing 108 but you show 100. Though I kind of wonder how you got 100 dmg with stone with 0 dint. That would work for stone II if there wasn't an adjustment but the 49 dint kinda show there is.

    Anyways because of that weird adjustment generally I didn't bother with acknowledging dint at all and just went comparing before and after dmg since I don't know exactly what it is doing or by how much it is doing it and where it factors in it wont be exact (like known half resists wont will be several off from half dmg and definite 1/4 resist will be way off and testing mdb values often didn't come out exactly right like had to be between 2 values etc) so if I really wanted to be thorough I'd make some worms nuke me. But since the Idris wasn't mine and I didn't want to bore Mal with that much testing I never did it for those. But I do have values for the 99 worms in ull to do math with if you want. Think it's the monster stat thread

  9. #149
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    So may I then assume that my fend/fade results are inaccurate?

    Any further tests are... unlikely atm.

  10. #150
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    Well just the ballista thing would make me call them more of approximates which is why the testing I posted in Idris page I had range based on doing a couple different nuke dmgs or when they were between values. But the whole getting exact dmg for stone II on the base dmg of one but the slightly lower amount I'd expect for the other one really confuses me and unfortunately I didn't record Mal's skill so can't even see how our values compared.

    Hmmm my mule has capped/merited skill so maybe can try that to compare to yours.... let's see it has 806 combine skill with just Dunaa so if I switch to Nepote bell (where does that come from anyways?) it would match your 788 +5 one and can match some of your +0 geomancy ones. Guess I'll try that soon though wont be able to get Idris or skill tiers that need augment capes

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Geo stuffs
    Stop being afk all the time and I'll help you get it narrowed down the best I can.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malithar View Post
    Stop being afk all the time and I'll help you get it narrowed down the best I can.
    Hey I was mostly there... just at work and boss doesn't approve of actual playing lol

  13. #153
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    How can you reliably weight the importance of stat vs macc for debuffs and nukes?
    I was always led to believe that Macc had a fixed importance (+1 macc always has the same weight, sorta) whereas stats have a "dynamic" importance (+1 INT can have more or less importance according to how far below you are from the target's stat. The further below the more weight +1 INT is gonna have, the closer you are the less weight it's gonna have).
    In addition to this, macc only gives macc, stats also gives potency (which can affect the strength of a debuff, or how long it lasts, and if we're talking about nukes it affects the damage, especially noticeable on low tier nukes).

    So, in light of what I said and supposing this is right and I wasn't taught bullshit (we're talking about a long time ago and back then I didn't even have mage jobs levelled), what would be a reliable way to compare two items, one with lower stats and higher macc, and one with lower macc but higher stats?




    Different question now.
    Have tests ever been performed on -RA spells from Geo? You know how for the other nukes lower tier benefit more from Mdamage/INT and less from Mab, whereas it's the other way around for high tier nukes? I was wondering where do -RA spells place themselves in this scenario.
    I've been told that normally -RA spells aren't worth using in the majority of situations, but asking just out of curiosity.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sechs View Post
    How can you reliably weight the importance of stat vs macc for debuffs and nukes?
    I was always led to believe that Macc had a fixed importance (+1 macc always has the same weight, sorta) whereas stats have a "dynamic" importance (+1 INT can have more or less importance according to how far below you are from the target's stat. The further below the more weight +1 INT is gonna have, the closer you are the less weight it's gonna have).
    In addition to this, macc only gives macc, stats also gives potency (which can affect the strength of a debuff, or how long it lasts, and if we're talking about nukes it affects the damage, especially noticeable on low tier nukes).

    So, in light of what I said and supposing this is right and I wasn't taught bullshit (we're talking about a long time ago and back then I didn't even have mage jobs levelled), what would be a reliable way to compare two items, one with lower stats and higher macc, and one with lower macc but higher stats?




    Different question now.
    Have tests ever been performed on -RA spells from Geo? You know how for the other nukes lower tier benefit more from Mdamage/INT and less from Mab, whereas it's the other way around for high tier nukes? I was wondering where do -RA spells place themselves in this scenario.
    I've been told that normally -RA spells aren't worth using in the majority of situations, but asking just out of curiosity.
    I don't think it's been explored that well for all spells was mostly tested on nukes but probably applies for the related stats of most spells... anyways (caster's stat)-(target's stat)≤ 10. 1 int = 1 macc. (caster's stat)-(target's stat)≥ 2int = 1 macc.

    As far as "reliable" method of comparing not sure what you mean. If you are talking about overall which will grant you the most accuracy or the most dmg sure you can math it out. But you'd need mob stats to be 100% sure.

    No test required that's easy math. Also it's not that lower tier benefit from int/mdmg precisely... in terms of pure dmg they gain the same amount from mdmg and actually a bit less from int. But it's a bigger percentage gain because of the lower base dmg of lower tiers. And mab adds a fixed percentage to all magic. So a lot of it is your comparing a fixed increase to a percentage and the 2 are multiplied together so it's going to seesaw between the 2 depending on exact amounts.

    To get an approximate int and mab ratio as far as worth is concerned assuming I did my algebra correctly should be something like: +1mab~ (mdmg + V+ dint*M)/(MAB*M) increase in int


    Alternately you could just plug your gear sets into the same dmg equation that I used to derive that to determine which gear is better

  15. #155
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    So something interesting I found out about Weather, comparing the effect provided by Storm spells and the effect provided by World weather.
    Previously it was thought that Stormweather always "overwrote" the world weather. As such, an intensity1 Stormweather would never "stack" with an intensity1 World weather.
    Said in other words: Fire weather + Firestorm => 10% damage bonus, not 25%.
    I found out this is wrong. Storm Weather does stack with world weather.

    Spoiler: show

    Thunder5
    No weather ==> 6610
    World Weather => 7270
    World + T1 storm => 8260
    T2 storm => 8266


    Water5 (firesday)
    Thunder weather => 2891
    Thun wea + Rainstorm => 3532
    Thun wea + Rainstorm2 => 4017


    Water5 (firesday)
    no weather => 6467 (lv 20 gadfly)
    rainstorm => 7111 (lv 20 gadfly)
    Rainstorm2 => 8084 (lv 20 gadfly)
    water weather => 7111 (lv 20 gadfly)
    water wea + Rainstorm => 8084 (lv 20 gadfly)
    wather wea + Rainstorm2 => 8084 (lv 20 gadfly)

    water5 (earhtsday)
    no weather => 6447 (lv 21 gadfly)
    rainstorm => 7111 (lv 20 gadfly)
    rainstorm2 => 8057 (lv 21 gadfly)


    fire5 (earthsday)
    water weather => 5876 (lv 21 gadfly)
    water weather, rainstorm => 4897 (lv 21 gadfly)
    water weather, rainstorm2 => 4897 (lv 21 gadfly)
    water weather, firestorm => 7204 (lv 20 gadfly)
    water weather, firestorm => 7181 (lv 21 gadfly)
    water weather, firstorm2 => 8160 (lv 21 gadfly)
    no weather => 6550 (lv 20 gadfly)
    no wea, firestorm => 7181 (lv 21 gadfly)
    no wea, firestorm2 => 8187 (lv 20 gadfly)



    My conclusions from this small test are the following:

    Yes, Stormspells do "overwrite" world weather when it comes to calculating the damage. (i.e. with firestorm up and water weather up, I still get the 10% bonus instead of 0%)
    Yes, Stormspells do stack with world weather. (i.e. a T1 storm spell and same element Intensity1 world weather, gives 25% bonus like an intensity2 weather spell)



    Please correct me if you find anything wrong in my tests.

  16. #156
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    Question what if you used competing weathers with the new obi?

  17. #157
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    I did use competing weathers with the new obi, it's in my test.
    Water5 used with Rainstorm up and Thunder Weather (world) up.
    Then Fire5 used with Rainstorm/Rainstorm2 up and Water Weather (up).

    After finding out that Single weather spell stacks with single world weather, I was expecting a different result with competing weather, but appearently in those situations the Spellweather takes priority and the worldweather gets ignored.
    Which is nothing new, it was always believed to work like that afaik.
    The "new" thing is about world weather stacking with spellweather when they're the same element (not competing)

  18. #158
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    Well you didn't specify which obi if any were used that's why I asked

  19. #159
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    Oh... yes, but I used Hachirin-no-Obi, it's the only one I have atm.
    This was a surprising turn of event btw.
    Byrth is already fixing Gearswap to take this into account, if you were curious. Should be released pretty soon.

  20. #160
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    Enlight II

    Since I haven't seen anything detailed even this late after update, and I finally got enough JP for it.. A bit on Enlight II.
    Code:
    skill base  Final ACC+
    425   748   845   97
    430   748   845   97
    435   748   848   100
    440   748   848   100
    445   748   848   100
    450   748   850   102
    455   748   850   102
    460   748   853   105
    465   748   853   105
    470   748   853   105
    475   748   855   107
    480   748   855   107
    485   748   855   107
    490   748   858   110
    495   748   858   110
    500   748   860   112
    505   748   860   112
    So, PLD got an extra 38 acc(depending on where your divine set was before.)

    425 was the lowest I could test at without unmeriting.

    So the tiers maintain the +2, +3, +2 gain pattern of Enlight I. But I don't really get how the skill tiers work. Seems to be going back and forth between 10 and 15 skill jumps.

    So, highest reasonable tier is at 490, for 110 acc/base dmg. Which means I have to carry one more piece of divine gear than I did for Enlight I.

    Next up, does Enlight II+Runes still work to maintain the acc bonus?

    124 serac rabbit
    PLD/RUN, 884 ACC.
    Code:
    Melee Damage
    Player            Melee Dmg  Abs'd.Dmg   Net Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg
    Martel                11587          0     11587   88.99 %     74/262   22.02 %   22.02 %    98/174   136.21   136.21
    I'm pretty sure that's actually floored. Which is fine. I'm not trying to quantify. Just confirm yes/no on ACC+.

    Enlight II+Ignis.
    994 acc, says check param. But I wanna know for certain.
    Code:
    Melee Damage
    Player            Melee Dmg  Abs'd.Dmg   Net Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg
    Martel                23356          0     23356   78.74 %     161/50   76.30 %   76.30 %    96/174   134.09   134.09
    Yep, looks like it still works. PLD is now insanely accurate. But only on melee. Gonna take like full Acro with acc and WS acc+ 20 to catch my WS set up to my TP set. <,<;; I guess I'll just atonement for now. Enlight acc works on WS. See following posts.

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