Item Search
     
BG-Wiki Search
+ Reply to Thread
Page 15 of 15 FirstFirst ... 5 13 14 15
Results 281 to 294 of 294
  1. #281
    BG Content
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    20,671
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Lakshmi
    Blog Entries
    1

    Do you know the INT of the hippogryphs? That might give you some idea about what the INT floor is and whether stacking INT matters in a practical sense.

  2. #282
    Relic Horn
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    3,131
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Sylph

    Just checked; level 123 Quarrelling Hippogryphs have 251 INT.

    Based on my earlier samples, I would guess that dINT starts giving MACC starting at -50.

  3. #283
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    23,736
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    Just checked; level 123 Quarrelling Hippogryphs have 251 INT.

    Based on my earlier samples, I would guess that dINT starts giving MACC starting at -50.
    There was some old jp blog work on it in this thread. Unfortunately the jp blog link is all moon runes and goes to the first page but I used to read them and try to figure out what they were doing and they had some cool testing going on. Like using automaton for much faster macc/meva testing

    https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/10...nt#post6818652

  4. #284
    Relic Horn
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    3,131
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Sylph

    Some misc. magic testing.

    Level 123 Quarrelling Hippogryphs have 249 INT, contrary to my previous statement.

    Negative dINT has it's own M values for magic, and are not mirrors of positive dINT. For example, at low negative dINTs, Stone II's M value is 1.5.

    Negative dINT cannot bring spell power to below 0 no matter how low it is. For example, let's say you have -100 spell power because your dINT is so low; MDMG +200 would bring your spell power to 200, not 100.

  5. #285
    Sea Torques
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    580
    BG Level
    5

    Observations using Idris + combined skill 900+ ... there seem to be caps on Gravity and Malaise effects resulting in a lesser effect than shown on the BGWiki table of Geomancy effects.

    First, it is known that PC movement speed was adjusted in a previous version update as a +25% increase (4.0 base to 5.0 base?), but I guess the "idle" or "stationary" (LOL) mob movement speed stayed the same, so according to the addon Targetinfo, standard mob speed is displayed as -20% when mobs are stationary.

    Using Targetinfo for movement speed data, it seems that regular Indi-Gravity or Geo-Gravity brings mob speed from -20% to -44% so the movement speed reduction seems to be 1 - (1-0.44)/(1-0.20) = .3 or 30%

    Under Ecliptic Attrition, mob speed goes from -20% to -50%, which corresponds to movement speed reduction 1 - (1-0.50)/(1-0.20) = 0.375 or 37.5% (so consistent with +25% EA increase)

    Under Blaze of Glory, mob speed goes from -20% to -56%, which corresponds to movement speed reduction 1 - (1-0.56)/(1-0.20) = 0.45 or 45% (so consistent with +50% BoG increase)

    Under both Blaze of Glory and Ecliptic Attrition, mob speed goes from -20% to -60%, which corresponds to movement speed reduction 1 - (1-0.60)/(1-0.20) = 0.50 or 50%. This is only a 66.66% increase in movement speed reduction (50% versus 30%), not consistent with the expected BoG + EA bonus of +75% (52.5% movement speed down)

    Using Indi/Geo-Gravity under Bolster gives the same result of -60% movement speed, so the movement speed reduction is capped at 50% it seems.

    Now Indi/Geo-Malaise.

    There seems to be a cap of -50 magic defense reduction (or at least I haven't reliably encountered the conditions where this is exceeded).

    Bolster > Geo-Malaise > Aero V => 25888. Drop bubble, 12944 (so 25888/12944 = 2). Next Aero V, 13266 (??? why is damage varying). Reapply bubble, 26037 Aero V (26037/13266 = 1.963)

    Went to Reisenjima and targeted level 121 Snaggletoothed Tigers (to see if there is any zone effect)

    13079 Fire V without JA but with Geo-Malaise

    BoG + EA > Geo-Malaise => 26529 Fire V (26529/13079 = 2.03)

    I took care to avoid weather/day effects and no magical crits either.

    Main motivation here was to use Indi/Geo-Gravity results and extrapolate them to other debuffs for the purpose of determining Geomancy resistance on NMs but having a cap on Gravity effect and minimum magic defense make this extrapolation more difficult (since you have to know what is the base effect observable versus resistance).

    If these observed max values (-50% movement speed for Gravity assuming I interpreted Targetinfo data correctly, and -50 MDB for Malaise) hold up then can determine resistance values more easily (at least for these 2)


    Edit: I see there is a magic defense minimum that was addressed by Byrth on the OF. Also it would make sense that NMs, which are not unknown to have magic defense bonus, would seem to get a dmg multiplier greater than 2 if the Malaise effect is not capped (just that the magic defense minimum is 50 so you will never see this occur with regular mobs with no magic defense bonus).

    https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/t...l=1#post521854

    If the magic defense minimum is 50 then the max damage increase from Malaise would be predicted to be 2.8x (140 magic defense versus 50 magic defense after max Malaise debuff of -90 magic defense)

    However, I have seen Bolster + Malaise result in damage increase > 3x (on Zerde) with Wildfire spam (doesn't vary with TP so unresisted dmg is constant) so will look into this further if there hasn't been any further testing on this.

  6. #286
    BG Content
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    20,671
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Lakshmi
    Blog Entries
    1

    I tested Indi-Gravity stuff in Eastern Altepa. I couldn't get targetinfo to work properly so I think I used:
    //eval print(windower.ffxi.get_mob_by_target('t').speed)

    I don't remember testing for bolster, so it is possible that the potency does indeed cap out at -2.0. Some monsters (like manticores and probably tigers) do have natively enhanced movement speed (5.0 base?) and I am not sure how targetinfo handles it.

    My observation was that Indi-Gravity had the same absolute movement speed impact on antica (base of 4.0) and manticores (base of 8.0 or something silly), so if it took antica down to 3.3, it took manticores down to 7.3.

    Also, I had completely forgotten about the MDB floor. Good to know it is somewhere!

  7. #287
    Sea Torques
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    580
    BG Level
    5

    Yes, it does seem that for Indi/Geo-Gravity, the movement speed reduction is absolute, not percentage-based if going off targetinfo (hope it's the same result as returning windower.ffxi.get_mob_by_target('t').speed)

    So the cap seems to be a flat -2.0. Official forums data on Indi-Gravity with % change (https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/t...eebling-Spells) prob just based on the standard movement speed of 4.0

    Again, with Geomancy+10 and combined skill 900+.

    From the above results with targetinfo, for mobs having -20% "stationary" speed (corresponds to 4.0)
    • regular Gravity results in -44% (corresponds to 2.8, or -1.2).
    • Blaze of Glory + Gravity results in -56% (corresponds to 2.2, or -1.8).
    • Blaze of Glory + Ecliptic Attrition + Gravity results in -60% (corresponds to 2.0, or -2.0).
    • Bolster + Gravity results in -60% also (corresponds to 2.0, or -2.0).


    Agitated Chapuli have 60% "stationary" speed (corresponds to 8.0, or max speed)
    • regular Gravity results in +36% (corresponds to 6.8, or -1.2).
    • Blaze of Glory + Gravity results in +24% (corresponds to 6.2, or -1.8).
    • Blaze of Glory + Ecliptic Attrition + Gravity results in +20% (corresponds to 6.0, or -2.0).
    • Bolster + Gravity results in +20% also (corresponds to 6.0, or -2.0).




    This all assumes that targetinfo data reflects actual movement speed.

    Interestingly, targetinfo shows that Chapuli move at "+300%" (corresponds to 20.0 speed) and "-20%" mobs move at 100% speed (corresponds to 10.0). If you take this at face value, mobs seem to move at 2.5x their "stationary" (...) speed.

    Of course you can outrun regular mobs with Flee (8.0) so not sure what to make of all this

  8. #288
    BG Content
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    20,671
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Lakshmi
    Blog Entries
    1

    Yeah, targetinfo has some reason for behaving as it does but I found it more harm than help when testing the gravity geomancy. The correct command (I was wrong earlier) would have been `//eval print(windower.ffxi.get_mob_by_target('t').movemen t_speed)`. - not sure why it's breaking up the word movement

    Anyway, okay. I'll add a -2.0 cap to the geomancy pages.

    It is interesting in principle that there is an overall potency cap that is substantially under what you can reach by combining abilities and gear.

  9. #289
    Sea Torques
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    580
    BG Level
    5

    Tried some Fire V on Magic Pots (again Geomancy+10 skill 900+) in sky and it seems pots have something like +12.5% MDB as opposed to 50% (since we know that base magic defense reduction is -45 for Malaise), since Fire V under Bolster seems to give the same results as under BoG/EA (so hitting the minimum magic defense rating of 50)

    If it was +50% MDB (assuming the calculation is correct, that base Malaise is really -45 magic defense), you'd definitely see some separation in BoG/EA damage versus Bolster damage

    The +50% MDB was "known" for pots (it's listed in that rank resistance text dump from a few years back) so I dunno what's going on

    Again the damage variation is annoying and don't know what's causing that. Magic Pot level obtained from /check

    Code:
    Level			Bolster	EOA/BG
    74		5732		
    74		5640		
    73		5681		
    76		5671		
    73		5732		
    73		5691		
    73		5650		
    74		12635	1	
    73		12726	1	
    73		12794	1	
    73		12909	1	
    74		12635	1	
    74		12772	1	
    74		9565		
    76		9429		
    74		9429		
    74		9429		
    73		9445		
    75		9446		
    73		12726		1
    74		12703		1
    75		12635		1
    75		12635		1
    Might do a Reive later to see what's up with this

  10. #290
    BG Content
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    20,671
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Lakshmi
    Blog Entries
    1

    Do you happen to be using Orpheus' Sash?

  11. #291
    Sea Torques
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    580
    BG Level
    5

    I avoided using Orpheus. I had the same thing happen on Tiny Mandies too.

    Tried a few casts on Ingrid in Sinister Reign (Ingrid known to be WHM and also never casts Shell or does anything to reduce magic damage (?)):

    Fire V: 7921
    Geo-Malaise + Fire V: 12789
    Blaze of Glory + Geo-Malaise + Ecliptic Attrition + Fire V: 19184
    Next Fire V without bubble: 7993

    So not sure why Fire V bubble-less damage changed from 7921 to 7993 but 19184 is ~2.4x 7993 and 12789 is ~1.6x 7993, so this is consistent with Ingrid having +20 Magic Defense Bonus, -45 magic defense down from standard Malaise, and the global capped -50 magic defense down (or floored magic defense rating of 50)

    Repeated Fire V with Bolster on next run:

    8093 (base)
    7950 (next cast) (???)
    19252 (Bolster + Geo-Malaise)
    8022 (Bolster off + no bubble)
    12835 (Bolster off + Geo Malaise)
    19252 (Bolster Off + Blaze of Glory + Ecliptic Attrition)

    So I have no idea why Fire V damage is varying among the 8093, 7950, 8022 (+/- 71 or 72 damage). Again Bolster result is the same as combining BoG + EA


    Going back to Zerde. The other day I observed multiple 26278 Wildfires before Malaise (yeah slow to put up lol), then multiple 80672 after Malaise applied (indicating consistent effect of Wildfire before/after). 80672/26278 = 3.07 approx, which seems impossible unless the magic defense floor is "broken" in that situation (or some other factor I don't recognize is in effect, even though everything else is held constant AFAIK)

    Also found that Ramuh is unaffected by Malaise (...) in Avatar ambuscade this month

  12. #292
    Sea Torques
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    580
    BG Level
    5

    Got some Stone V damage data off Alexander HTBF VE (avoiding inter-mob variability). For some reason Alexander dmg dropped slightly (INT change) mid-fight, which is why I have columns #6 and #7

    Code:
    			MD-	Damage	Multiple observed	Multiple expected	Damage	Multiple observed
    Base			0	3827	-			-			3786	-
    Malaise			-45	5468	1.428795401		1.428571429		5409	1.428684628
    Malaise + EA		-56	6044	1.579304939		1.595744681		5979	1.579239303
    BoG + Malaise		-67	6917	1.807420956		1.807228916		6843	1.807448494
    BoG + Malaise + EA	-78	7974	2.08361641		2.083333333		7889	2.08372953
    Bolster + Malaise	-90	9569	2.500391952		2.5
    It appears that Alexander has 50 MDB (at least for VE difficulty) so still looking for an explanation for that Wildfire multiplier

  13. #293
    Sea Torques
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    580
    BG Level
    5

    Based on Indi-Gravity results above, Shinryu HTBF Geomancy nerf values seem to be as follows (from targetinfo data)

    Very Difficult: -90% (from -20% to -22%, or -0.1)
    Difficult: -75% (from -20 to -26%, or -0.3)
    Normal: -50% (from -20% to -32%, or -0.6)
    Easy: -33% (from -20% to -36%, or -0.8). Under Bolster, movement speed goes from -20% to -52%, or -1.6 (2x movement speed reduction as expected)
    Very Easy: none (from -20% to -44%, or -1.2)

    VE Shinryu itself doesn't seem to have any magic defense bonus in its base form since Bolster + Malaise caused 2x damage increase (the other possibility is 80 MDB but that's unlikely b/c magic damage was 'normal', i.e, 9k tier V nukes without Malaise), but annoying to collect data to confirm Malaise outside of Bolster due to different stances and Mighty Guard

    Again the "hope" is that Indi-Gravity observations would extend to other debuffs when it comes to ascertaining nerf %

  14. #294
    i should really shut up
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    5,265
    BG Level
    8
    FFXI Server
    Asura

    Quote Originally Posted by CDF View Post
    Based on Indi-Gravity results above, Shinryu HTBF Geomancy nerf values seem to be as follows (from targetinfo data)

    Very Difficult: -90% (from -20% to -22%, or -0.1)
    Difficult: -75% (from -20 to -26%, or -0.3)
    Normal: -50% (from -20% to -32%, or -0.6)
    Easy: -33% (from -20% to -36%, or -0.8). Under Bolster, movement speed goes from -20% to -52%, or -1.6 (2x movement speed reduction as expected)
    Very Easy: none (from -20% to -44%, or -1.2)

    VE Shinryu itself doesn't seem to have any magic defense bonus in its base form since Bolster + Malaise caused 2x damage increase (the other possibility is 80 MDB but that's unlikely b/c magic damage was 'normal', i.e, 9k tier V nukes without Malaise), but annoying to collect data to confirm Malaise outside of Bolster due to different stances and Mighty Guard

    Again the "hope" is that Indi-Gravity observations would extend to other debuffs when it comes to ascertaining nerf %
    I'll add this to the wiki. TY for the testing.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

  • Decrease Size
    Increase Size
  • Remove Text Formatting
  • Insert Link Insert Image Insert Video
  • Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
  • Insert NSFW Tag
  • Insert Spoiler Tag

Similar Threads

  1. Random Facts Thread: Other
    By Yugl in forum FFXI: Advanced Math
    Replies: 490
    Last Post: 2022-07-06, 18:54
  2. Random Facts Thread: Abilities
    By Yugl in forum FFXI: Advanced Math
    Replies: 200
    Last Post: 2022-04-19, 22:55
  3. Random Facts Thread: Traits and Stats (Player and Monster)
    By Yugl in forum FFXI: Advanced Math
    Replies: 500
    Last Post: 2021-03-15, 19:29
  4. Random Facts Thread
    By Yugl in forum FFXI: Advanced Math
    Replies: 157
    Last Post: 2011-12-08, 19:49