Random Facts Thread: Traits and Stats (Player and Monster)

[Prothescar]

Something I would have honestly expected to be all server side. Interesting!

[Byrthnoth]

They also send a much more informative metric of charm rate when you use Gauge, I think. I've been too lazy to try Libra...

[dasva]

Hmmm this battle mod sounds interesting. I would like to know more please

[Byrthnoth]

It's a windower addon for v4. I use packets to re-make the chat log as best I can (it's getting better D:<) and display some stuff that wasn't visible before/shorten messages/etc.

[Prothescar]

for all they whine about not sending extra info to the client they sure do send a lot of unnecessary and excessive, unused bits

[Yugl]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...8_21.34.07.png

Compared to the other two mobs, the Umbril took an extra 75% damage. I checked their MDB at Cirdas (Ceizak one wasn't up) and didn't see any abnormal MDB.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/unjbaafh5p...8_21.05.23.png

Either the extra damage is from elementless property or magic itself.

[dasva]

It's a windower addon for v4. I use packets to re-make the chat log as best I can (it's getting better D:<) and display some stuff that wasn't visible before/shorten messages/etc.

Guess I'll have to get windwer 4 then. And figure out how to use it. Know mob lvls ahead of time is soooo useful. That gauge thing sounds cool too.

[Yugl]

Incomplete analysis, but I would like to share this just so viewers can see if they find a pattern.

Compilation of images:https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fjx49zv3m...Taken%20Traits

This used the Umbril at Ceizak Battlegrounds #2 Bivouac. The mob ranges from LV100-101 seemingly.

Initial check:
Meteor depends on INT, Elemental Magic Skill, MAB, Enemy MDB, Species Enhanced Damage (Generic term used for this post; just means extra damage done through some multiplier) and Enemy MDT. So, when you use Meteor against multiple enemies, the only difference should arise from their different MDB, SED, and MDT.

Spoiler: show

We see that the Umbril took 75% more damage than the other two mobs (Precisely in fact; just multiply the damage of the other mobs by 1.75 to see this result). So either MDB, SED, or MDT created this excess damage.

MDB Check: Quick Draw

Since Quick Draw ignores MDT, but will return results from MDB and SED, I decided to use this to rule out their influence.

A quick indirect proof of MDB is to use no MAB gear (100 MAB base) because you'll have either the base damage or 1/2, 1/4, etc of that damage appear. The caveat is that you'll usually witness the same results with 200 MDB mobs, so you then need to check for that later. I used COR with Phineas+NQBull to reach 190 base damage (95*2=190).

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fjx49zv3m...n%20Traits/MDB

We knew fire inflicts double damage. Given the results of Marborl Breath and Earth QD, we see earth elements inflicts double damage as well. We see that other elements consistency remain at 95 damage (Half of the expected base damage). So, we have a few options. Either the mob has 200 MDB, SDT to these elements, or they're resisted values. To see which, I made an excel chart to document different MAB values I could use to differentiate MDB from SDT or resists. If I use an extra resist state for each idea, I found I could differentiate at 127 MAB.

If you check the latter two images, you'll see 59 DMG QD and the gear used.

Assume 1/2 resists create the 95 DMG. Add an extra resist state and you have 1/4 resist instead.
Floor(190/4) = 47 : Apply the resist
Floor(47*(127/100)) = 59 DMG : Apply the MAB/MDB step

Assume MDB (200) creates the 95 DMG. Add an extra resist state and you have 1/2 resist instead.
Floor(190/2) = 95 : Apply the resist
Floor(95*(127/200)) = 60 : Apply the MAB/MDB step, but use 200 MDB instead

Since we viewed 59 DMG, we know the resist/SDT is creating this damage.

SDT Check: Blue Magic Breaths

Typically, you'll encounter a few checks here: SDT, Resist, SED, and BDT

This image implies no BDT in effect:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...8_05.32.24.png

This image implies no SDT in effect (There is a 1DMG difference from theoretical damage, but HP wasn't properly tracked; nevertheless, no SDT or BDT present):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0_05.33.22.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0_05.25.41.png

Ruled out breath damage resists via Elemental seal and SED isn't present.

Quick summary of what we've seen so far:
1. The previous QD checks were from resists
2. No MDB
3. Double damage from Fire, Earth, and Light
4. No SDT towards Ice, Water, or Thunder
5. Elementless magic inflicts 75% extra damage (No way to test if this is specific to "elementless" or to just "magic")

Here is where problems arise:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...8_22.28.02.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...8_22.35.12.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0_05.26.30.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0_06.02.06.png (440 Blue Magic Skill and Elemental Seal)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0_07.07.33.png

Somehow, they're taking significantly less damage than other mobs (Roughly 80-81%). I initially figured this was MDT because you can achieve this value, roughly, with 48/256 MDT reduction. This works mathematically for elemental magic seemingly:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0_07.59.32.png

However, the theoretical dilemma becomes salient. You have a mob with excess damage from meteor, but reduced damage from other elements. This seems to suggest there is a bonus to "bland" magic, but once you involve elements, the damage reduces. Yet, we didn't see this occur with QD. Furthermore, this seems to be roughly 48/256 elemental damage reduction rather than 1/2, 1/4, etc that we usually witness. In short, weird results and read the data/view images if interested.

[dasva]

What is up with your chat? It looks kinda weird. Also anecdotal but I threw some aquans at it and there was no intimidate so probably not amorph.

As far as possibilities. Maybe they have some sort of -MDB and then sdts to each element that balance out or something. I'd use 1k needles to rule for sure if they have mdt of some kind. Sounds like there might be a mess of factors working at cross ends to do weird stuff. Like they also might have very odd int values or something.

Also perhaps a better SDT test is debuff durations for at least for the few elements that have ones with set durations

[Fwahm]

Perhaps Meteor is calculated as a special "non-elemental" element that is unique to it, different from Quick Draw and the like.

Also, as added information, dark elemental spells seem to be hit by a -20% to -25% SDT term on Umbrils. Drain II is fairly consistent, so I was able to test with that (needs Dark Seal to stick though, so testing is slow).

[Yugl]

What is up with your chat?

Battle mod.

As far as possibilities. Maybe they have some sort of -MDB and then sdts to each element that balance out or something. I'd use 1k needles to rule for sure if they have mdt of some kind. Sounds like there might be a mess of factors working at cross ends to do weird stuff. Like they also might have very odd int values or something.

I'm probably going to return to my original guess at Arcana because none of this explains the 25% increased poison breath damage. Since we can track level, we should be able to pick out the INT value if we use a Mougurijin's elemental magic values. I doubt MDB is at play because that should yield 58 DMG during the comparison.

190/8 = 23.75
Floor (47.5) = 23
23*(127/50) = 58.42 = 58 DMG

Also perhaps a better SDT test is debuff durations for at least for the few elements that have ones with set durations

This is a good idea.

Perhaps Meteor is calculated as a special "non-elemental" element that is unique to it, different from Quick Draw and the like.

Also, as added information, dark elemental spells seem to be hit by a -20% to -25% SDT term on Umbrils. Drain II is fairly consistent, so I was able to test with that (needs Dark Seal to stick though, so testing is slow).

Well QD and Meteor are different in most ways already. The reason they seem similar is because Meteor never resists (Seemingly since you need an element to resist) and because QD ignores MDT shields. Yet, Meteor is affected by said MDT shields and QD does have an element. They're polar spells from what I understand about them.

[Jem]

Went out to check if anything had changed with Umbrils since I last tried to use Arcane Crest on them. Still the exact same as before, unable to use




Was a panicky screenshot as it didn't display the message with Battlemod loaded so had to run away and unload it whilt trying to spam it!

[Yugl]

I don't blame you. Those Umbril are some mean fuckers. I did the Arcane crest as one of my first checks and none of the crests worked. However, the alternative explanations for 25% increased Poison Breath damage are unknown atm. If you check the Frost Breath image, you'll see the correct damage for that breath (LV/HP). The differences between the two breaths, aside from base damage equation, are element and species. I checked element and if element created enhanced damage, we would have seen that through QD checks.

[Ophannus]

Could be that Umbrils are weak to undead monster correlations. Poison Breath is an undead based spell. Can try some other undead spells on them and see if they get a damage bonus vs Umbrils.

[dasva]

Hmmm now I wanna do tests on them. Where a good place to find them?

[Yugl]

Could be that Umbrils are weak to undead monster correlations. Poison Breath is an undead based spell. Can try some other undead spells on them and see if they get a damage bonus vs Umbrils.

No bonus if they were. Plus, drain and aspir work against them.

Hmmm now I wanna do tests on them. Where a good place to find them?

Dungeons will have them up whenever (Cirda Caverns warp has two). Fields will have them during night (20.00ish pops). Ceizak Battlegrounds has one LV100-101 near Bivouac #2's area. Just run North from there.

[Prothescar]

Umbrils are quite possibly Arcana, they just don't follow the normal rules of monster correlation (i.e., killer effects and sigils do not work). Elementals are the same way: you get correlation damage bonuses on Elementals as if they were Arcana, but you cannot put up Arcane Crest, nor can you intimidate them via Arcana Killer. I suspect (Arch) Dynamis Lord to work the same way (as a demon) but never did any sort of testing to prove it.

[Yugl]

Well well.



Not sure what to conclude yet, but it seems any magic should gain a 75% bonus. Since breath spells received a 2x bonus, perhaps Fire, Earth, and Light (Not sure) spells receive (1.75*2)? Need consider the implications of these results before deciding.

Wasn't aware of elementals as arcana, but seems quite true.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...1_02.33.39.png

[dasva]

I know 1k needles is technically light element and counts for resist but not sure it applies for double dmg. The only other thing I can think of that doesn't count mdb or base stats besides that and breaths would be enspells not sure if rdm/drk/pld ones do but run definitely seems to only account for sdt/mdt. Though sadly does range a tad

[Prothescar]

the range is so tiny. would take no time to get a full size of samples