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  1. #401
    Groinlonger
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    Fenrir

    I remember seeing some crazy numbers from interference on Aegis PLD. I am very skeptical that MDT does anything for it.

  2. #402
    Ridill
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    Bahamut

    Hmmm my Sippoy is broken. Refuses to use Interference lol

  3. #403
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    Ragnarok

    Helps if you knock some HP offa him, then spam TP feed with bludgeon, or a multihit wep.

  4. #404
    Ridill
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    Bahamut

    Oh yeah I got him low kept spamming Dark Arrivisme. I got bored and let myself melee it to death

  5. #405
    Ridill
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    Question Martel. For the mdt tests you did with Sippoy was it just shell tested?

  6. #406
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    I tested shell alone, aegis alone, and aegis+shell. none of them did a damn thing.

    EDIT:Some details on testing.

    Only Cruor buffs were HP/MP. Atma was just mounted champion. I removed all Ilvl gear. This is to prevent resists from giving weird results. Made sure I wasn't wearing anything with PDT/MDT/BDT/DT on it. Threw on what little hatse gear I had that met those requirements and started beating on Sippoy. Didn't use phalanx either.

    Let him hit me with interference a few times to make sure I had a good control.(every one hit for the same amount.)

    Then start swapping individual variables in and get hit again.

  7. #407
    Ridill
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    Bahamut

    So today Gin was being a poopoo head. Only used Interference once but was enough to show I war wrong from before. Got the 523 on the higher acc auto today and 667 on the other one and I had taken midnights off them anyways so had same base stats. So guess I just got lucky and the previous 4 were the same auto have mdb down and the other not. Upside is I now have a control number for mdb up and down.

  8. #408
    Ridill
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    Bahamut

    So tested out overdrive to see how it reduced dmg... might have been upping my resist rate since it definitely makes the autos hard to enfeeble but took that 667/523 dmg down to 64/48 for 3 hits in a row. Even assuming 1/8 resist that's still a rather decent reduction from the 100 int

  9. #409
    Old Merits
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    Cho'gall

    Post March Update mob skill nerf, there was apparently an unmentioned bonus nerf. Before that, lv120+mobs (probably went lower, never bothered testing below lv119,) gained a static eva+34 per level, now that value is eva+30. This is in addition to the skill nerf (which lowered baseline stats on top of which are added the lvl+1 increases.) There was one blip w/ a less than expected value (lv129 needed 1 acc less than expected, but balanced out w/ lv130 being 1 more than expected,) but those were likely due to rounding/flooring AGI-based values. 128-130 was still a +60 increase.

    In addition, the value between no evasion message and low evasion message was always 40, which implies that there is no level correction (checked a six level spread of Apex Jagils) and that the only increases are coming from the blanket lvl+1 formula.

  10. #410
    Relic Horn
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    Sylph

    It looks like that, in addition to nerfing the effects of the Circle JAs, NMs also nerf your base intimidation rate.

    I tested Killer effect using Founder's Breastplate (50% of your Killer effect is translated into a percentage damage increase) on Manipulator. I also tested on a normal Arcana just to reconfirm normal values for Arcane Circle and the Breastplate's effect.

    Weapon Bash: 113
    Weapon Bash w/ Arcane Circle: 124
    Weapon Bash w/ Arcane Circle w/ +1 from feet: 125
    Weapon Bash w/ Arcane Circle w/ +1 from feet and Founder's Breastplate: 135

    Values without the Breastplate were consistent with the known values for the Circle effects on NMs (+10% normally, +11% with enhancing feet). However, the Founder's Breastplate gave +8% to damage instead of +13.5% (the value if it counts unnerfed Killer effects) or +10.5% (the value if it counted normal innate Killer effect, but nerfed Arcane Circle).

    16% Killer effect is only consistent if the target being an NM nerfed the base trait of 10% to 5%.

  11. #411
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    In addition, the value between no evasion message and low evasion message was always 40, which implies that there is no level correction (checked a six level spread of Apex Jagils) and that the only increases are coming from the blanket lvl+1 formula.
    iirc /check messages don't account for lvl correction. To actually check for level correction you'd have to compared parsed hit rates with calculated ones

  12. #412
    Relic Horn
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    Sylph

    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    iirc /check messages don't account for lvl correction. To actually check for level correction you'd have to compared parsed hit rates with calculated ones
    Pretty sure /check does count for level correction, but Adoulin mobs don't have level correction at all, anyway.

  13. #413
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    Pretty sure /check does count for level correction, but Adoulin mobs don't have level correction at all, anyway.
    Well bg wiki says it doesn't and other wiki implies it doesn't either. And it's been a long time but I do seem to remember still being able to have shit hit rates even when things checked low evasion.

  14. #414
    BG Content
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    Lakshmi
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    Yeah, /check doesn't account for level correction or conditional things like Closed Position.

  15. #415
    Old Merits
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    Just happy that I was able to confirm that the lack of level correction (still) exists, that the March nerf primarily affected base stats, and that the lvl+1 formula was actually adjusted downwards (since I could swear that it wasn't explicitly noted in the patch notes,) which is something I've been lobbying for on OF for a while. ^^

    If it really is a blanket 40acc between "blank evasion" and "low evasion", doesn't that mean that for at least lv119+ mobs, 2acc=1% hit rate? From one of the patterns I found, it seems highly likely to me that this formula goes down to lv109.

    I was under the impression that /check did a simple PlayerAcc vs MobEva check.

  16. #416
    Relic Horn
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    Sylph

    An adjustment to the monster evasion skill formulas would naturally change how much evasion mobs got per increase in level, and is almost certainly one of the adjustments they did in that update, so there's no need to assume that there was an evasion nerf beyond what they mentioned.

  17. #417
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    If it really is a blanket 40acc between "blank evasion" and "low evasion", doesn't that mean that for at least lv119+ mobs, 2acc=1% hit rate? From one of the patterns I found, it seems highly likely to me that this formula goes down to lv109.

    I was under the impression that /check did a simple PlayerAcc vs MobEva check.
    lvl doesn't matter. 2 acc =1% hit rate until you reach caps/floors. And yes check is just acc vs evasion not things that directly modify hit rate

  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    An adjustment to the monster evasion skill formulas would naturally change how much evasion mobs got per increase in level, and is almost certainly one of the adjustments they did in that update, so there's no need to assume that there was an evasion nerf beyond what they mentioned.
    I've always assumed that monster combat skills capped @ lv99 like players, and derived stats like acc/eva/etc were added directly as part of the lvl+1 formula. It does not make sense to me for combat skills to be increasing as well, since that would surely introduce some major variances to the observed acc/eva pattern. Unless every single 109+ mob has identical evasion skill ratings, there would be some significant variances in the lvl+1 formula when comparing different mob families in the same level range.

    Apex Crab and Apex Bat in Dho Gates have the same 128-130 level range within the zone. Bats have more base evasion than crabs due to family traits, but they both receive an identical lvl+1 boost to eva. That boost was +34, now it's +30. If combat skills were involved, that wouldn't make much sense since I sincerely doubt that crabs and bats would have identical evasion skill ratings if this were the case. :/

    My conclusion is that there was indeed two separate adjustments made. One to lower skills (which lowered baseline combat stat values) AND one to lower the gains from the lvl+1 formula.

  19. #419
    Relic Horn
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    Sylph

    Unlike players, mobs actually go above 99, so the fact that players don't get skill past 99 is irrelevant, and there is significant evidence of their skills going up as they level up (drain and aspir get more potent, they interrupt player magic more, they get interrupted by player attacks less, etc).

    Bats are WAR/WAR, and Crabs are PLD/PLD (or might be PLD/WAR, I forget), and WARs and PLDs have the same evasion skill rating, C, so it's not surprising that Bats and Crabs would have the same equation for evasion skill. The vast majority of mobs are WAR/WAR, so you wouldn't expect to see variation from evasion skill from the standard very often anyway.

    When you do start fighting mobs that don't correspond to jobs with C evasion, like Inner Ra'kaznar Fomors, the evasion increase per level does change.

  20. #420
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    . If combat skills were involved, that wouldn't make much sense since I sincerely doubt that crabs and bats would have identical evasion skill ratings if this were the case. :/.
    Actually it completely does. crabs are pld bats are wars. Assuming they use player derived as a base which they certainly did before that would be C- and C rank respectively. Those ranks have the exact same gain rate post lvl 75. In fact All ranks above D have the same gain rates post 75.

    Conclusion you don't have enough data to make your conclusion. You'd need data on D or lower rank to conclude that they aren't gaining combat skills with lvl. Therefore need to compare a cor, brd, rdm, sch, blm, whm, smn or rng mob evasion gains with lvl

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