Random Facts Thread: Traits and Stats (Player and Monster)

[Ophannus]

Pretty sure crabs are PLD/PLD because they never DA, except for like Karkinos who has a 100% DA rate.

[Sechs]

Slightly ot. Didn't toau mobs have additional evasion compared to what same level and same job monsters would have in previous zones? How was that additional bonus handled? Static bonus from something similar to what players get through job traits?

[Fwahm]

Did they? Mamools had a lot of THFs and NINs, and a WS that boosted evasion, and Skoffins also had an evasion buff, but I'm not sure about other things being overall more evasive. Imps were easier to hit than almost any older zone exp mob of comparable level.

[Byrthnoth]

They did not have additional evasion. Some (like Mamool) were higher level than we were used to XPing on previously (Infernal/Deco capped at 81 while Mamool capped at 83). There was no "ToAU Evasion Boost" term, though.

[Nyarlko]

The old "lvl+1 = eva+34" blanket formula worked for all SoA and Escha mobs (at least according to the numbers that were posted on the wiki and my own experience.) I never found a single non-NM that had any perceivable variance from that, and even most NMs adhered to it. (Sarama has like Evasion Bonus -10 or something. XD So there are at least a few NM exceptions.) Now, it's a blanket "lvl+1 = eva+30". I verified my numbers on the crabs/bats because I had the old values memorized. ^^;; (Lv130 values were perfect to extrapolate from with mental math.)

Apex Jagil also exhibited the same eva+30 across a six level range as well. (They are what I call "low tier evasion" btw, same baseline as crabs.) If I can unlazy myself a bit, I'll go hit up Ra'Kaznar later and check on the fomors there.. They have visibly obvious (main) jobs, so if there is any impact from job-based skill involved, it should show up pretty quick between the blm and the just-about-anything-else.

I guess there is also the possibility that mob combat skills are defined by zone and the mobs themselves have nothing to do with it. :/ That would mean that the lvl+1 gains are most likely to be entirely skill-based and that mobs don't actually get derived stats like "evasion +x". If that's the case, then the end result would be the same, so not sure how (or why) to check for that.

[dasva]

Non nm pugils are also war mob types. For a non nm you'd pretty much need a beastmen or obvious caster to get a mob type that has a low enough evasion rank to properly test. And the differences in gain rates could are small enough I'd only really trust something you could /check. Even more so since most nms as far as we know tend to have multiple jobs.

Should be noted that base stats clearly still follow the job differences if anything to a much greater degree at least between the high and low ranked. Like metalcruncher worms (blm) had around 300 int but higher level apex jagils had low 200s. But not sure where to find stats based on job and levels to compare so idk how it compares to the 75-99 gain rates between jobs

[Byrthnoth]

Nya, could you please work out an example using Greater Colibri?

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Greater_Colibri

[Nyarlko]

Nya, could you please work out an example using Greater Colibri?

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Greater_Colibri

I am positive that sub lv100 mobs don't use the same formula. So I don't really know how checking Greater Colibri would help. ^^;;

I did finally unlazy myself and tested fomor in Outer Ra'Kaznar though. ^^ My numbers conflict with my idea that the lvl+1=30eva goes down to 109 though.. Pretty sure now that "lvl+1=30acc" goes down to lv119, and there is a diff formula for at least 109-119 (which could go down to 100, but nothing worth killing is below 119, so I don't intend to test the lower end.)

Tested the DRK(evasion rank C)/RDM(evasion rank D)/RNG(evasion rank E) fomors to determine if jobs played a part in how much is gained per level.
Mob job does appear to affect their baseline, as at the same level, DRK had 6-7 more than RDM which had 6-7 more than RNG.
However, for all 3x jobs for lv114-116, (though I admit that I missed lv114 from the RDM due to repops being stubborn for over an hour,) it was a static lvl+1=15eva. So, I'm pretty sure that my lvl+1 formula/theory still works, it just has different static values based on (most likely) broad level ranges.

So, what I've got evidence for so far is: "~109-119 > lvl+1=eva+15" & "~119+ = lvl+1=eva+30". It's possible there is an upper limit on 119+ mobs getting eva+30, but I'd need actual support jobs to help me test the highest end of non-NMs (lv137-139 I think?) and rather doubt any of my lsmates are going to be bored/interested enough to hang out and buff me while I check Apex mobs in Inner Court. ><;;

Any suggestions for mobs that are exactly 118-120 and/or 108-111? Could prove my predicted cutoff levels if I could test those specific ranges.

Something in support of the tiered lvl+1 formula.. Assuming that it's +15eva up til 119, then +30eva beyond, the numbers I got for the DRK (rank C) are only off by +1 (entirely possible that an AGI rounding issue at some point between could cause this,) if extrapolated out to 130 and compared to a lv130 Apex Crab. ^^

[Nyarlko]

OK, question about Phalanx. Exactly where does it fit in the order of damage reduction effects? I'm wondering specifically about interaction with Mana Wall & DT-% from gear. The wiki pages for Phalanx or Damage Taken or Mana Wall do not explicitly state where Phalanx fits in.

I've always assumed it's: Mana Wall > DT-% > Phalanx ... Am I wrong?

[Byrthnoth]

( Damage * (1-DT%) - Phalanx - Stoneskin ) * (1-Mana Wall %)

[dasva]

The mana wall page sort of says in a very vague manner since it's saying the damage you would've taken and that you can reduce that damage first but yeah could be clearer

[Nyarlko]

( Damage * (1-DT%) - Phalanx - Stoneskin ) * (1-Mana Wall %)

Thanks. ^^ That changes my actual damage taken estimates a lot, so good to know. Went ahead and added this to the wiki page.

------

Thought of something else not stated on the wiki...

* Does wearing Stoneskin+ gear when hit with a Cure from a WHM w/ Afflatus Solace up affect the "cureskin" value?

[Byrthnoth]

Idk but probably not

[Celebrindor]

I do know this- wearing +phalanx gear when someone uses accession+phalanx will give you YOUR +phalanx number, not the casters. But +skill doesn't work that way at least for phalanx. This based on my anecdotal evidence of playing primarily RDM at endgame in a party with a SCH. Not exactly scientific, but having an accessioned phalanx hit me with my +phalanx gear on, then another with just idle gear, and the 2nd showed as "no effect". At no time did I personally cast phalanx to experiment with this.

*again, could use more actual testing compared to "this is what I experience", no matter how regularly it happens.

[dasva]

Oh it's been tested before. The skill part is kind of obvious otherwise phalanx II/ascension phalanx would do nothing for non mages.

[Nyarlko]

I know that the Stoneskin+ gear has to be worn at the time you receive the effect in order for it to apply. I'm just wondering now if the effect from Afflatus Solace counts as "Stoneskin" for this specific purpose.

Any non-annoying test method suggestions? XD I know if it really REALLY bugs me, then I can always run out to Aby-Altepa and piss off a cactuar, but I would rather be lazy and ask if anyone else has tried first. lol

[dasva]

Could use ways of fixed self "damaging" like the whm merit jas, Frenzy Sallet, Vim/Berserker's Torque, Snakeeye + venom pots, Atma of the Winged Gloom (ok that one might be a no go given you can't really just toggle it on but other atmas could boost hp for whm jas), SE with a fixed amount of ranged dmg like say crossbowing lvl 1s.

[Byrthnoth]

* IIRC you don't have to take damage to get the cureskin effect, though, so he doesn't really need worry about taking damage.
* There's only one Cactuar in Abyssea - Altepa and he's not very reliable.

Steps:
0) Two characters. One WHM and one on another job/WHM or /RDM (maybe BRD). Lock everyone's gear and don't use DT gear.
1) Have a mule pull a cactuar in eastern or western altepa desert using Dia.
2) Cast Cure V on the mule every 30 seconds with Afflatus Solace up and the mule not using any Stoneskin + gear, which will result in the WHM tanking
3) The mule should lower the cactuar's HP below 25% and then be spamming Dia or Dia II (whichever does damage) on the Cactuar to feed TP.
4) Record the amount of damage taken by the mule after the cactuar does 1000 needles
5) Repeat with the mule using Stoneskin+ gear now.

[dasva]

Duh hence not suggesting getting beat on or convert or changing gear etc.

You do need known "damage" to get a value for the stoneskin and he mentioned he didn't want cactuar so I gave other things that deplete stoneskin in a rapid and very controllable manner

[dasva]

So was checking out the OF and saw there was a bit of debate on ra'ka inner courts apex mob viability and I've always been interested in it especially with so few people seeming to even realize stuff got added there back when so decided to try and get some stats/testing will be a wip though with cp campaign on mostly looking at evasions right now

Apex Umbril: 137 - 1282
138 - 1313
139 - 1343

Apex bats (flock): 137 - 1283
138 - 1314
139 - 1343
Apex Vodoriga: 137 - 1283
138 - 1314
139 -

Enigmatic Vampyr : 137 - 1283

Powercrazed Dvergr: 137 - 1260
139 - 1339

Side note these are a lot less dangerous then I thought they would be. 139 Umbrils were hitting August for like 140-240 from what I could see and tp moves were more annoying then dangerous though for some reason Ygnas refused to get to proper range so would get hit by some AoEs