Doesn't surprise me that much. Prenerf with worse gear I could get low but not floored hit rates so figured they were probably around 1400 or so prenerf forget how big the skill nerf was but iirc agi nerf ended up accounting for around 10% evasion.
Also the Dvergr confuses me. the 137 number makes sense if you consider it's probably blm though I'd expect job traits to cause a larger difference but then the 139 is only slightly lower so idk. Was my last one and actually pulled agro so was having to fight stuff hard enough I stopped locking gear so I guess maybe I messed it up. Wonder what a "normal" blm one would be
Edit: Side note also tried checking def but god was that annoying and wasn't set up to really vary attack and then lost data but the 137 Umbril was around 1350
Apex Bat (lv136) was over 1400 before, so 137-139 should've been somewhere around the same area once you subtract Evasion Bonus and add the lvl+1-3 increase. And it is surprising that there wasn't a big difference when compared to Apex Bats, which should normally have Evasion Bonus traits (they're either WAR/THF or THF/WAR,) but appear to be missing it. Given the basically flat values you got, it almost seems like job doesn't matter and mobs are setup according to zone rules only.
I think I shall take pride in believing that my lobbying for evasion nerfs in those two zones in particular was more successful than I thought it was. Though I know it was most likely just coincidental timing, since we all know that they never listen to NA complaints.
Not sure didn't test before but like nowadays I can seem to cap (haven't really parsed but hit rate's good and kill them fast triboxing) on a lot 140-145 lvl nms with iirc 1350ish acc.
Maybe they made triplets just war or maybe it was using aggressor!? But yeah kind of surprising that values were all so close would've thought families would've played more of a role but instead only like 1 point differences probably due to agi roundings. Have to check more jobs out but ran out of sushi which really kind of need when you don't have a melee with high acc set and decent amount of jps lol. The range by level is also kind of crazy. If someone did do this wonder if they might try to target based on level
On the lower tier Apex (ex: Doh Gates Bats vs Crabs) it used to be 1210 vs 1163 for the lv130s, so Bats got an extra 47 evasion which could be explained by having some form of the Evasion Bonus trait. No difference between Umbrils, Bats, Vodoriga and Vampyrs, plus a mere 23 less for the assumed BLM dvergrs, suggests that the Bats are not getting Evasion Bonus at all...
Maybe the "monster combat skills" being lowered actually removed Evasion Bonus traits, at least for Ra'kaznar?
I mean basically said they were probably just war... that kind of says no evasion bonus trait. I'm about to blow your mind even more. It's quite likely that all bats are just warriors. Note they have never displayed any other thf traits and that evasion difference isn't even close to a thfs and non ilvl targets have never displayed such a difference in evasion despite having full traits and have always been listed as just war. Especially given the jobs you compared
So only had random gear last time and looks like I might of made some slight oopies in math probably a combination of having to try a bunch of different gears to change acc by a little, not having my pocket brd with me and mixing up which side of the breakpoint to use when going back and forth between using the low and high and at one point think I just didn't add at all and another time I added instead of subtracted lol so reposting with correct and new numbers. Also super crazy addendum but Vodoriga evasions GREATLY increase while flying. 60 to be precise which is along the lines of the 2nd to highest evasion boost but need more data to draw conclusions exactly but idk maybe it's a blu and sets max evasion bonus lol
Anyways what it means is umbrils are actually matching the other war types 100% and 138s for all those are 1294 instead of 1293
Apex Umbril: 137 - 1284
138 - 1314
139 - 1344
Apex bats (flock): 137 - 1284
138 - 1314
139 - 1344
Apex Vodoriga: 137 - 1284 (1344)
138 - 1314 (1374)
139 - 1344 (1404)
Apex Bhoot: 137- 1284
138- 1314
139 - 1344
(guess ghosts are warriors with blm spells now lol?)
Apex Cyhiraeth: 137- 1260
138- 1290
139- 1319
Apex Draugar (sword war?): 137 -1284
138 -1314
139 -1344
Apex Draugar (Dagger thf?): 137 - 1421
138 - 1452
139 - 1484
Apex Draugar (staff blm?): 137 - 1260
138- 1290
139- 1319
Apex poxhound 137- 1284
138- 1314
139- 1344
Enigmatic Vampyr : 137 - 1284
Powercrazed Dvergr: 137 - 1260
139 - 1319
Disheveled Naraka: 138 - 1314
139 -1344
Inimical Corse 139- 1344
I'll try organizing this more tomorrow but for today that's all folks
So using 137 (or projected 137 values) we get Dvergr, Draugar with staff and Cyhiraeth at 1260
Umbril, bats, walking Vodoriga, Draugar with sword, Bhoot, Hound, Vampyr, Naraka, and Corse all at 1284 evasion
Flying Vodoriga at 1344
And Draugar with dagger at 1421
Based on this and previous things in the thread seems like things effected by jobs are only effected by jobs like base stats and skill.
Given the mobs the lowest group is 100% all blms.
2nd group seems mostly made out of warriors (looking it up more forgot ghost could be just war) no other jobs have the same agi and evasion skill rank so probably all war unless happy coincidence. The only having 24 acc more is kind of odd given they have the same agi rank but at 99 blm and war have like 73 evasion difference so will have to look into that I guess
Flying Vodoriga weird as fuck best I can figure it's a war standing but then gets partial thf bonuses flying lol.
Highest group is almost certainly thf with 137 more evasion. Skill gain rates are about the same so based on players should have 51 more evasion just on skill alone and evasion bonus is 72 for highest thf evasion bonus only missing 14 but could easily come from being a rank higher on agi.
Mostly just ramblings for next stage of testing
New eva values for Apex mobs were determined several months ago on FFXIAH
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/47586/apex-camps/4/
Well maybe if you didn't take months to post that stuff here!!! And the forums over there weren't really conducive to searching for stuff. What's that about agi not mattering? Is that just because the different agi rank ones are having same evasion?
Also got base stats? Hmmm with that much data should be able to extrapolate for all the higher levels ranks. Any idea why E and C rank are so close?
IIRC, part of one of the evasion nerfs was that for monsters, agility above a certain value gives 0 evasion, and I assume apex mobs all have more that that threshold.
Right, I understood what you were saying, but they did not explicitly state exactly how the lowered stats actually function or give any values. All that was said in the Feb 2017 update notes was:
Do you have the source for testing that showed 0eva from AGI? {I'm interested.}Originally Posted by POL
That was a different nerf that was really done to compensate for geo. I could swear we had gotten info that talked about agi but only things I can find are http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ion#post583410
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...Version-Update. And looking back thru that apex thread looks like they found -agi stuff wasn't lowering evasion but didn't see any break point discovered
Not sure when they changed it, but the Green Wyvern Cheer now gives magic haste instead of gear haste like it used to.