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  1. #461
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicyryan View Post
    Too busy running 2% faster.

  2. #462
    Ridill
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    So looking back at the old dagi tp reduction testing and something seemed off plus bg wiki was sort of wishy washy on it. Got same numbers on same bumblebee targets as the tester but when I Absorb - agi I was capping dagi factor at 72 agi. Given base stats floor at 1 that means that you only need at most 71 dagi to cap. So if you are capping at 80 agi means their base is agi at lowest is 9 when it was assumed more like 5-7.

    So something up with formula and assumed values need more investigation but don't have much low level stuff. Anyone know of agi values of higher level mobs done by a more reliable method and not the weird job approximation thing

  3. #463
    Ridill
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    Managed to get ahold of some Nashmau stew ftw... and whoa didn't realize it was AoE what a troll food lol.


    Anyways dagi effect capped at 70. With both of us at 1 agi spells gave 85 tp so 15% reduction at 0 dagi.

    Given previous info means level -1 bumblebees have 10 agi. Decently higher than the assumed 5.

    With player at 1 and bumblebee at full 10 (so -9 dagi) gave 89 tp. Will formula later... maybe. Side note Tiny mandragoras gave 87 so they have less agi than the bees... guess bees need agi to fly or something.

    So yeah looks like the slope of the formula was right just need to shift by 5 due to incorrect mob agi

  4. #464
    Ridill
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    So using the above method went to abyssea to test the agi of some poor defenseless worms. Will be something of a WiP as getting exact levels of abyssea mobs with that amount of range is not the easiest

    Using 70 as dagi cap I get Ectozoons by level to have agis of

    83- 85
    84- 87
    85-
    86-
    87- 90
    88-90
    89- 91
    90-92
    91-94
    92-94
    93- 95
    94- 96
    95- 96
    96-99
    97- 99
    98- 99
    99- 101
    100- 101

  5. #465
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    Not sure if this has been known/tested but Addle apparently counts as form of Slow for resists. With no other resist traits (including on gear) besides "Resist Slow" I got a "Resist!" message on Addle being casted on me multiple times. Makes sense since it slows your casting time I guess

    Edit: Just saw it was on the BGwiki page for "Resist Slow" so nevermind

  6. #466
    Ridill
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    Fuck like an hour of work and hit backspace and all gone lol. So gunna try quick post of the data then save and edit it a bit the analysis in later. Probably better since wanted to go check screenshots for some stuff

    So testing HTBF avatar mab and magical attacks. For various reasons I used loupan as my test punching bag. In the end the biggest reason is I could desummon it and resummons it after each waterja since that was fucking with stuff plus needed fade anyways so using loupan was also a good test of making sure it was up. I wasn't paying attention at first so ended up using 3 pet dt to go with the innate 50% and have tested them having +12 mdb. Have tested and calculated that geos fade to be -38 mab

    Edit: The number in parenthesis after a dmg value is the number of targets hit. I didn't bother with Tidal wave since it was always 5

    Doing Leviathan on VE



    tidal wave- 125 , 209 , 209, 251 , 251, 261 , 313 , 313

    grand fall- 222 (4), 357 (4), 357, 357, 357, 357, 357, 357, 357, 357, 357 , 357 , 357, 357, 357, 380 (3), 380, 380, 380, 446 (4), 446, 446, 446, 446, 446, 476 (3), 476

    waterja- 400 (4), 400, 400, 400, 400, 465 (5), 500 (4), 500, 500

    with fade

    Tidal Wave-167 , 167 , 200 , 200, 200, 200, 200, 209, 251 , 251,

    Grand Fall- 142 (4), 142, 142, 285 (4), 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 305 (3), 357 (4), 357, 357, 357, 357, 357, 357, 357, 256 (4)

    waterja- 320 (4), 320, 320, 320, 320, 320, 320, 320, 320, 320, 400 (4), 400, 400, 400,

    Some notes. I do admit this data gathering ended up being somewhat sloppy for example using trusts that moved and having gear dt. However did let me confirm that at the very least waterja and likely grandfall is effected by MTDR (once I get the screenshots and can put up analysis that will become more apparent but let's just say that one 465 waterja was hitting 5 targets and all the rest were 4) and that dt definitely effects all these. Also some accidents early on showed me that it's even possible for levi to have 3 ja effects on you at once really messing with dmgs.

  7. #467
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    Use Notepad++ instead of typing in here live. NP++ will "save" your work even if you close the program or your computer crashes.
    I do this now for anything that looks to be more than a couple paragraphs or needs formatting for the same reason...

  8. #468
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Use Notepad++ instead of typing in here live. NP++ will "save" your work even if you close the program or your computer crashes.
    I do this now for anything that looks to be more than a couple paragraphs or needs formatting for the same reason...
    Yeah I do a lot of that at home but at work forgot

  9. #469
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post

    Doing Leviathan on VE



    tidal wave- 125 , 209 , 209, 251 , 251, 261 , 313 , 313

    grand fall- 222 (4), 357 (4), 357, 357, 357, 357, 357, 357, 357, 357, 357 , 357 , 357, 357, 357, 380 (3), 380, 380, 380, 446 (4), 446, 446, 446, 446, 446, 476 (3), 476

    waterja- 400 (4), 400, 400, 400, 400, 465 (5), 500 (4), 500, 500

    with fade

    Tidal Wave-167 , 167 , 200 , 200, 200, 200, 200, 209, 251 , 251,

    Grand Fall- 142 (4), 142, 142, 285 (4), 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 285, 305 (3), 357 (4), 357, 357, 357, 357, 357, 357, 357, 256 (4)

    waterja- 320 (4), 320, 320, 320, 320, 320, 320, 320, 320, 320, 400 (4), 400, 400, 400,
    Add number in parenthesis after a dmg value is the number of targets hit. I didn't bother with Tidal wave since it was always 5. Only did the first of a particular dmg since it was always the same for a particular dmg as expected. New post for viewing sake. For reference Multiple-Target Damage Reduction for 3 is .75, for 4 is .7 for 5 is .65

    Analysis starting without fade: TW 125 is pretty much a clear 1/2 resist of 251. 313 is 25% more than 251 so a weather proc. 261 is 25% more than 209 so another weather proc. However wtf they are about in relation to the rest is kind of wtf. Both weather and not weather are about 16-17% less dmg than what I assume is the full dmg so whatever it is isn't something weird with day/weather. So full dmg no weather proc in this setup is 251

    GF- 446 is 25% more than 357 so weather proc. 222 is 1/2 of 222 (yeah I know a couple off. it's flooring sue me) so a 1/2 resist with weather proc. 380/.75 ~357/.7 and 476/.75 ~446/.7 so MTDR differences. So full dmg no weather proc with 4 targets 357 with 3 targets 380.

    waterja- 500 is 25% more than 4 blah blah weather. 465/.65 ~500/.7 so MTDR differences.

    With Fade

    TW- 209 is 25% more than 167 and 251 is 25% more than 200 so weather procs. Assuming the 200 is the full dmg no weather but again both weather and not have dmgs of ~16-17% lower. Given it's the same percentage as without fade unlikely to be mab related. Given that and the consistency I'd imagine the base dmg is being changed possibly because of procs

    GF- 285*1.25~357 so weather. 142 is half so resist with no weather. 305/.75 ~285/.7 so MTDR differences. The 256 not really sure about right now. It's definitely there and can definitely see the number of targets. Tried doing some various math and even trying to count potential waterjas even though I took steps to avoid and nothing comes out. Only thing I can think of is my chat log messed up or something. Anyways since it's 1 discrepancy out of a few dozen I'm just not going to count it.

    Waterja- 320*1.25~400 bam weather easy peasy.

    So outside of the weird tidal wave stuff everything explainable with 1/2 resists, weather procs and/or MTDR. Something interesting to note is at least for players it'd been kind of assumed avatars weren't subject to MTDR or at the very least 2hrs weren't but for GF and waterja that's clearly not the case. Also neither of those appear to be affected by tp. And Tidal fall has some mechanic to do slightly less but consistently so dmg that's not MAB or MTDR or weather.

    Leaving the actual MAB calcs for later since that to an extent is a mixture of a bunch more work to show and a little bit of brute force due to having to go backwards to figure out on something that floors each step

  10. #470
    Ridill
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    So without showing all the backwork and brute force I came out with 190 mab total. Will show how the numbers work though.

    Ignoring the factors that don't matter magic dmg formula should look something like

    Damage Dealt = D * MTDR * MAB/MDB * TMDA with flooring at each step. (obviously when applicalble weather will be in there before the mab/mdb term)
    As already stated Multiple-Target Damage Reduction for 3 is .75, for 4 is .7 for 5 is .65. MDB for loupans is 112 and had -53% dt so TMDA is .47

    Came out with 719 D for waterja
    Damage Dealt = D * MTDR * MAB/MDB * TMDA
    Damage Dealt = 719 * .7 * 190/112 * .47
    Damage dealt = 503*190/112*.47
    Damage dealt = 853*.47
    Damage dealt = 400.

    So checks out. Again with -38 mab from Fade
    Damage Dealt = 719 * .7 * 152/112 * .47
    Damage dealt = 503*152/112*.47
    Damage dealt = 682*.47
    Damage dealt = 320

    Checks again. If you try for 718 base dmg it will work for fade version but wont for no fade even with adjusting mab values.

    Grandfall with 4 targets full dmg no weather was 357 dmg.
    Came out with 640 or 641 D for grandfall (both will come out to the same with my data since using either .7 or .75 for the first step will truncate to the same). I'll use 640 for this since yay easy math
    Damage Dealt = 640* .7 * 190/112 * .47
    Damage dealt = 448*190/112*.47
    Damage dealt = 760*.47
    Damage dealt = 357

    So checks out. Again with -38 mab from Fade
    Damage Dealt = 640 * .7 * 152/112 * .47
    Damage dealt = 448*152/112*.47
    Damage dealt = 608*.47
    Damage dealt = 285

    works again. Note that 642 also works for those but didn't for either 3 target ones. 3 targets without fade ends up being 2 off but not sure how to rectify that without messing with everything else. Only thing I can think of is the maybe the MAB/MDB isn't 1 term but 2 with flooring each step? Anyone know about this?

    Not gunna bother with tidal wave since already showed the 190 mab works pretty good and whatever it's weirdness is makes it less useful for calcs going forward

  11. #471
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    I'll be testing out various BST jug pet debuffs, which is greatly aided by being pointed in the direction of BG Wiki - Absorbing Shield. XD Just wish the stupid thing didn't have a bloody 1hour CD.....

    Sharpwit Hermes:
    Leaf Dagger - 31hp/tick poison. 3min duration.
    Wild Oats - had VIT 204, went down to 162, so either VIT-42 or VIT-20%. 3min duration.
    * I'm leaning towards VIT-20% since 42 is an odd number to set it at. I goofed and got erased before I messed around with adjusting gear, so will have to recheck later. orz
    * Scream - ...actually bugged. @3k TP, duration on the stolen debuff was shown as 9min (and change). Wore off at 6m45sec mark. Potency started at MND-50, then stepped down in -4 steps at 1min intervals, until the displayed timer hit 5min, then changed to -1/-2 steps at seemingly random intervals. Time between steps 10sec-40sec at this point. Decay stopped at MND-25 until it wore off with 2min+ still on the displayed timer. -_-;; Seems potent, but MND Down isn't really useful. Bug report already submitted.

    Pondering Peter:
    * Dust Cloud - accuracy-50. 45sec duration.

  12. #472
    Ridill
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    Mob scream does the same weird thing if you pay attention. Weird random durations that abruptly drop way before the timer runs down

  13. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    I'll be testing out various BST jug pet debuffs, which is greatly aided by being pointed in the direction of BG Wiki - Absorbing Shield. XD Just wish the stupid thing didn't have a bloody 1hour CD......
    Put it in your Dbox, get another, rotate.

  14. #474
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    On a different topic, does anyone happen to know if WS type mob physicals can crit (without Mighty Strikes)?

  15. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    On a different topic, does anyone happen to know if WS type mob physicals can crit (without Mighty Strikes)?
    Since there are crit based moves like the basic spider's Sickle Slash, I'd say yes.

    ------
    Bug Report on Scream moved to Accepted Bugs same day I posted it. \o/

    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Mob scream does the same weird thing if you pay attention. Weird random durations that abruptly drop way before the timer runs down
    Never paid enough attention to it to notice mob version since it's only MND.. Bah, means it's the move itself that is bugged and not properly extending duration based on TP, and not something that could force them to do a pass to verify that all jug pets are working properly.. (I won't tell them about mobs if you don't. <,< Think they are taking it seriously because they don't want to hear anyone bitching about BST again.) I'm of the opinion that many of the AE effects have lower-than-reasonable macc, similar to what was called out on SAM WS a few months ago.

    BTW, burned up 4x more charges on trying to steal Pentapeck's Amnesia and have yet to get anything besides "no effect". -_-;; Either Amnesia is not a stealable buff, it has a duration of < 3sec, or it just refuses to land (which is what I'm leaning towards.)

  16. #476
    Ridill
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    I'll try pentaing a mule in a second to try. But yeah that has kind of generally been known as one of the poorly landing. Because man imagine if you could amnesia lock nms. I doubt it's super low duration though. Only thing I found anywhere near that low when I was doing testing long ago was the enslow effect on slug and well that's likely because it's part of his melee hits. Side note genbu's def down was so long that I never actually got a duration (this was before it showed us and before I got a shield so was doing transfers in abyssea and ran out of time)

  17. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    I'll try pentaing a mule in a second to try. But yeah that has kind of generally been known as one of the poorly landing. Because man imagine if you could amnesia lock nms. I doubt it's super low duration though. Only thing I found anywhere near that low when I was doing testing long ago was the enslow effect on slug and well that's likely because it's part of his melee hits. Side note genbu's def down was so long that I never actually got a duration (this was before it showed us and before I got a shield so was doing transfers in abyssea and ran out of time)
    I don't have any illusions of epicness for NM fights, and honestly don't expect most of our stuff that have analog spell versions to land if the target is something that would be annoying for a RDM. I don't even WANT to amnesia lock NMs, because then the nerfbat would come swinging my way again, even though there are far worse balance issues in the game and BST is nowhere near the top DPS by any measure...

    I have gotten Patrick's stun to proc, and it lasts for a total of 1-2 missed attacks from the target.. Maybe 3sec max for that? There are definitely some very short duration debuffs out there. I DO believe that we should at least be able to prove that every AE exists vs Kamihr Drifts trash mobs at least. I'm also curious about whether certain multi-effect debuffs are one debuff or multiple, and if I can find any effects that have bugged descriptions. XD

  18. #478
    Ridill
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    I kind of forgot about stun because well it's almost always short. Maybe I should say that short when other versions aren't. So tried it in pvp. Landed once for about 2 seconds then failed 3 times in a row. Mind you this was with a no armor player vs a full 119 HQ bird with around 53 macc.

    What you mean like slug move? Because that one definitely is 2.

  19. #479
    Relic Horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Since there are crit based moves like the basic spider's Sickle Slash, I'd say yes.
    No, I mean actual physicals that are treated like WSs, like Ironclad or Mantis melee attacks.

  20. #480
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    Even Cait Sith's amnesia doesn't land much or last very long so I wouldn't expect the jugpet version to land on anything

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