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  1. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    So was checking out the OF and saw there was a bit of debate on ra'ka inner courts apex mob viability and I've always been interested in it especially with so few people seeming to even realize stuff got added there back when so decided to try and get some stats/testing will be a wip though with cp campaign on mostly looking at evasions right now

    Apex Umbril: 137 - 1282
    138 - 1313
    139 - 1343

    Apex bats (flock): 137 - 1283
    138 - 1314
    139 - 1343
    Apex Vodoriga: 137 - 1283
    138 - 1314
    139 -

    Enigmatic Vampyr : 137 - 1283

    Powercrazed Dvergr: 137 - 1260
    139 - 1339

    Side note these are a lot less dangerous then I thought they would be. 139 Umbrils were hitting August for like 140-240 from what I could see and tp moves were more annoying then dangerous though for some reason Ygnas refused to get to proper range so would get hit by some AoEs
    That... is amazing to me. Those numbers are seriously lower than I was expecting, to the point where I'm wondering if they gave all the mobs there a negative Evasion Bonus trait. That's like 200+ lower than they were when they were added. O_o;;

  2. #442
    Ridill
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    Doesn't surprise me that much. Prenerf with worse gear I could get low but not floored hit rates so figured they were probably around 1400 or so prenerf forget how big the skill nerf was but iirc agi nerf ended up accounting for around 10% evasion.

    Also the Dvergr confuses me. the 137 number makes sense if you consider it's probably blm though I'd expect job traits to cause a larger difference but then the 139 is only slightly lower so idk. Was my last one and actually pulled agro so was having to fight stuff hard enough I stopped locking gear so I guess maybe I messed it up. Wonder what a "normal" blm one would be

    Edit: Side note also tried checking def but god was that annoying and wasn't set up to really vary attack and then lost data but the 137 Umbril was around 1350

  3. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Doesn't surprise me that much. Prenerf with worse gear I could get low but not floored hit rates so figured they were probably around 1400 or so prenerf forget how big the skill nerf was but iirc agi nerf ended up accounting for around 10% evasion.

    Also the Dvergr confuses me. the 137 number makes sense if you consider it's probably blm though I'd expect job traits to cause a larger difference but then the 139 is only slightly lower so idk. Was my last one and actually pulled agro so was having to fight stuff hard enough I stopped locking gear so I guess maybe I messed it up. Wonder what a "normal" blm one would be

    Edit: Side note also tried checking def but god was that annoying and wasn't set up to really vary attack and then lost data but the 137 Umbril was around 1350
    Apex Bat (lv136) was over 1400 before, so 137-139 should've been somewhere around the same area once you subtract Evasion Bonus and add the lvl+1-3 increase. And it is surprising that there wasn't a big difference when compared to Apex Bats, which should normally have Evasion Bonus traits (they're either WAR/THF or THF/WAR,) but appear to be missing it. Given the basically flat values you got, it almost seems like job doesn't matter and mobs are setup according to zone rules only.

    I think I shall take pride in believing that my lobbying for evasion nerfs in those two zones in particular was more successful than I thought it was. Though I know it was most likely just coincidental timing, since we all know that they never listen to NA complaints.

  4. #444
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    Not sure didn't test before but like nowadays I can seem to cap (haven't really parsed but hit rate's good and kill them fast triboxing) on a lot 140-145 lvl nms with iirc 1350ish acc.

    Maybe they made triplets just war or maybe it was using aggressor!? But yeah kind of surprising that values were all so close would've thought families would've played more of a role but instead only like 1 point differences probably due to agi roundings. Have to check more jobs out but ran out of sushi which really kind of need when you don't have a melee with high acc set and decent amount of jps lol. The range by level is also kind of crazy. If someone did do this wonder if they might try to target based on level

  5. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Not sure didn't test before but like nowadays I can seem to cap (haven't really parsed but hit rate's good and kill them fast triboxing) on a lot 140-145 lvl nms with iirc 1350ish acc.

    Maybe they made triplets just war or maybe it was using aggressor!? But yeah kind of surprising that values were all so close would've thought families would've played more of a role but instead only like 1 point differences probably due to agi roundings. Have to check more jobs out but ran out of sushi which really kind of need when you don't have a melee with high acc set and decent amount of jps lol. The range by level is also kind of crazy. If someone did do this wonder if they might try to target based on level
    On the lower tier Apex (ex: Doh Gates Bats vs Crabs) it used to be 1210 vs 1163 for the lv130s, so Bats got an extra 47 evasion which could be explained by having some form of the Evasion Bonus trait. No difference between Umbrils, Bats, Vodoriga and Vampyrs, plus a mere 23 less for the assumed BLM dvergrs, suggests that the Bats are not getting Evasion Bonus at all...

    Maybe the "monster combat skills" being lowered actually removed Evasion Bonus traits, at least for Ra'kaznar?

  6. #446
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    I mean basically said they were probably just war... that kind of says no evasion bonus trait. I'm about to blow your mind even more. It's quite likely that all bats are just warriors. Note they have never displayed any other thf traits and that evasion difference isn't even close to a thfs and non ilvl targets have never displayed such a difference in evasion despite having full traits and have always been listed as just war. Especially given the jobs you compared

  7. #447
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    So only had random gear last time and looks like I might of made some slight oopies in math probably a combination of having to try a bunch of different gears to change acc by a little, not having my pocket brd with me and mixing up which side of the breakpoint to use when going back and forth between using the low and high and at one point think I just didn't add at all and another time I added instead of subtracted lol so reposting with correct and new numbers. Also super crazy addendum but Vodoriga evasions GREATLY increase while flying. 60 to be precise which is along the lines of the 2nd to highest evasion boost but need more data to draw conclusions exactly but idk maybe it's a blu and sets max evasion bonus lol


    Anyways what it means is umbrils are actually matching the other war types 100% and 138s for all those are 1294 instead of 1293


    Apex Umbril: 137 - 1284
    138 - 1314
    139 - 1344

    Apex bats (flock): 137 - 1284
    138 - 1314
    139 - 1344

    Apex Vodoriga: 137 - 1284 (1344)
    138 - 1314 (1374)
    139 - 1344 (1404)

    Apex Bhoot: 137- 1284
    138- 1314
    139 - 1344
    (guess ghosts are warriors with blm spells now lol?)

    Apex Cyhiraeth: 137- 1260
    138- 1290
    139- 1319

    Apex Draugar (sword war?): 137 -1284
    138 -1314
    139 -1344

    Apex Draugar (Dagger thf?): 137 - 1421
    138 - 1452
    139 - 1484

    Apex Draugar (staff blm?): 137 - 1260
    138- 1290
    139- 1319

    Apex poxhound 137- 1284
    138- 1314
    139- 1344

    Enigmatic Vampyr : 137 - 1284

    Powercrazed Dvergr: 137 - 1260
    139 - 1319

    Disheveled Naraka: 138 - 1314
    139 -1344

    Inimical Corse 139- 1344

    I'll try organizing this more tomorrow but for today that's all folks

  8. #448
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    So using 137 (or projected 137 values) we get Dvergr, Draugar with staff and Cyhiraeth at 1260

    Umbril, bats, walking Vodoriga, Draugar with sword, Bhoot, Hound, Vampyr, Naraka, and Corse all at 1284 evasion

    Flying Vodoriga at 1344

    And Draugar with dagger at 1421

    Based on this and previous things in the thread seems like things effected by jobs are only effected by jobs like base stats and skill.

    Given the mobs the lowest group is 100% all blms.

    2nd group seems mostly made out of warriors (looking it up more forgot ghost could be just war) no other jobs have the same agi and evasion skill rank so probably all war unless happy coincidence. The only having 24 acc more is kind of odd given they have the same agi rank but at 99 blm and war have like 73 evasion difference so will have to look into that I guess

    Flying Vodoriga weird as fuck best I can figure it's a war standing but then gets partial thf bonuses flying lol.

    Highest group is almost certainly thf with 137 more evasion. Skill gain rates are about the same so based on players should have 51 more evasion just on skill alone and evasion bonus is 72 for highest thf evasion bonus only missing 14 but could easily come from being a rank higher on agi.

    Mostly just ramblings for next stage of testing

  9. #449
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    New eva values for Apex mobs were determined several months ago on FFXIAH

    http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/47586/apex-camps/4/

  10. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDF View Post
    New eva values for Apex mobs were determined several months ago on FFXIAH

    http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/47586/apex-camps/4/
    Well maybe if you didn't take months to post that stuff here!!! And the forums over there weren't really conducive to searching for stuff. What's that about agi not mattering? Is that just because the different agi rank ones are having same evasion?

    Also got base stats? Hmmm with that much data should be able to extrapolate for all the higher levels ranks. Any idea why E and C rank are so close?

  11. #451
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    IIRC, part of one of the evasion nerfs was that for monsters, agility above a certain value gives 0 evasion, and I assume apex mobs all have more that that threshold.

  12. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    IIRC, part of one of the evasion nerfs was that for monsters, agility above a certain value gives 0 evasion, and I assume apex mobs all have more that that threshold.
    Ah yeah I thought they just changed the ratio didn't realize they did something like that though doubt SE really specified. That's kind of crazy. Wonder what the threshold is

  13. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Ah yeah I thought they just changed the ratio didn't realize they did something like that though doubt SE really specified. That's kind of crazy. Wonder what the threshold is
    SE did not specify exactly how the nerf applied/functioned. This is the first I've heard about a 0eva lvl+1 value.

  14. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    SE did not specify exactly how the nerf applied/functioned. This is the first I've heard about a 0eva lvl+1 value.
    0 eva from agility; mobs that high still get more evasion on level up from increased evasion skill.

  15. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    0 eva from agility; mobs that high still get more evasion on level up from increased evasion skill.
    Right, I understood what you were saying, but they did not explicitly state exactly how the lowered stats actually function or give any values. All that was said in the Feb 2017 update notes was:

    Quote Originally Posted by POL
    Monsters in the following areas have had their combat skills, magic skills, and magic evasion lowered.
    Seeks of Adoulin areas / Legion areas / Escha- Zi'Tah /
    Escha-Ru'Aun / Reisenjima / Reisenjima Henge
    Do you have the source for testing that showed 0eva from AGI? {I'm interested.}

  16. #456
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    That was a different nerf that was really done to compensate for geo. I could swear we had gotten info that talked about agi but only things I can find are http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ion#post583410
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...Version-Update. And looking back thru that apex thread looks like they found -agi stuff wasn't lowering evasion but didn't see any break point discovered

  17. #457
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    Not sure when they changed it, but the Green Wyvern Cheer now gives magic haste instead of gear haste like it used to.

  18. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    Not sure when they changed it, but the Green Wyvern Cheer now gives magic haste instead of gear haste like it used to.
    That whole 1% haste might just break the DPS charts.

  19. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicyryan View Post
    That whole 1% haste might just break the DPS charts.
    Laugh all you want and it is small but for uncapped haste situations it just might be the cheer with the biggest boost to dps lol

  20. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Laugh all you want and it is small but for uncapped haste situations it just might be the cheer with the biggest boost to dps lol
    Too busy running 2% faster.

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