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  1. #461
    Ridill
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    So been seeing a bit of talk about people using hybrid ws and haven't seen a lot of info on exactly how they are calculated think it's more or less just been assumed you calculate the physical hit with 1.0 ftp then the magical is that dmg multiplied by the given ftp and magical multipliers. But always wondered how things that can effect magical and physical ws worked If Ilvl (I know it seems unlikely but just in case) or magic dmg matters etc. so here's to testing.

    For all of this doing hot shot at 3k tp so 70% agi mod and 326 agi (so 228 wsc) , 2.1 ftp on aht urghan spiders to ensure I can't kill with just the physical at full hp but could still cap fstr2/pdif and doing just the physical hit by getting to low hp and then total

    Test 1: First baseline Machine crossbow (18 dmg) and Ra'ka bolt (112 dmg)
    Fstr2 20
    WS Base dmg 378

    Expected Physical dmg 1323 magical magical dmg 2778 total Damage 4101.

    Actual physical damage 1323 total damage 4100... close enough

    Test 2: Does ilvl work like it does for magical. One-Eyed (ilvl 109 60 dmg), Ra'ka bolt (112 dmg)
    fstr2 28
    base dmg 428
    Expected Physical dmg 1498 magical dmg 3145 total dmg 4643.
    Actual the same so no. Switching this weapon combo to the new base line

    Step 3: How does mdmg effect? Same stats as baseline +10mdmg

    Physical dmg 3145, Total dmg 4653
    Yes mdmg adds on to the magic portion. Could do further testing to see if it's before or after multipliers but for now assuming it's after ftp but before other ones like magical

    Step 4: MAB. Same gear except +10 mab -
    Physical dmg 1498, total dmg 4957.
    So no change in physical but total dmg increases enough to correspond with +10% to magical as you'd expect. At this point going to assume magic specific multipliers just go with magic part

    Step 5: How does +ftp stuff work
    Fotia- physical dmg 1641 total dmg 5166.
    Fotia x2- 1788 dmg total dmg 5716

    So this one is really weird. The physical gets the bonuses just like normal but the magical carries that bonus over and then adds another one to the magical portion but at half potency. So like for double the physical goes from 1 to 1.2 while the magical goes from 2.1 to 1.2*2.2=2.64 (yes I know they are actually 25/256 but this is easier display math lol)



    Step 6: How does wsdmg factor in. Baseline +10 wsdmg

    Physical dmg 1647 total dmg 5450

    Physical increased just as expected but total was over 10% but magical side also got a 10% boost for full double dipping. So magical side is basically getting WS^2 applied. So yeah pretty much definitely the BiS stat in most situations

    Step 7: Trueshot. Baseline +15% trueshot (full jp no gear) and actually being in sweet spot

    Physical dmg 1722 total dmg 5337.

    So works normal and equally on both.

    Step 8: Physical dmg modifications. Baseline but switched to bees for peircing weakness

    Physical dmg 1872 total dmg 5802

    So works normal and equally on both. Gunna assume pdt works the same.

    Will try to clean it up into more of a formula later... maybe. If anyone can think of other things to test with it other than the assumptions I made go ahead. Unless it's something that doesn't work with ranged because I don't feel like it! But I'll assume overwhelm probably works the same as wsd did and probably explains part of why sam is doing so well at these

  2. #462
    Relic Horn
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    There was a lot of testing done on the FFXIAH Samurai forums a few weeks ago; there might be some good info for you in there.

  3. #463
    Ridill
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    Bahamut

    Uggg but ahs searchability is balls. Though first thing I see about Jinpu looks not promising though I suppose it is possible they gave physical higher tp mods than hot shot I guess on top of making multi hits count.

    Edit: So based on that and the nin thread and what I've done looks like would be something like (not exact multiplication order might be different so rounding yada yada)

    Total dmg = physical + magical

    Physical hit = (base dmg +fstr +wsc)*pdif* (1.0+ftp bonus)*wsd + (base dmg +fstr +wsc)*pdif*wsd

    Magical hit= ((physical hit* (ftp+ .5ftp bonus))+mdmg) * wsd * magical multipliers

  4. #464
    Groinlonger
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    Fenrir

    I don't know if WSD is applied to the additional hits for hybrid (it doesn't for any other WS.) Haven't seen evidence one way or the other.

  5. #465
    Ridill
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    Yeah was thinking about mentioning that and of course small chance fotia is applied to all hits. Just this is so weird to begin with like the additional hits even counting for the magic part lol. But yeah I'll change it since that's probably correct

  6. #466
    Old Merits
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    Ragnarok

    Death Resist gear - Shadow Ring

    I'd meant to go back and test more before posting, but I can't seem to find time, so I'll just post what I have.

    I was looking over my Death Resist set in response to the Ambuscade Frog deciding to death me twice in one fight. For PLD, that's pretty much just rings. thing is, there's 3 of them.

    Warden has a visible value(+10)
    Eihwaz is reported as +10("+10% resistance to death, according to FFXI Premium guide 2013", Link to comment on FFXIAH

    But I couldn't find anything on Shadow Ring's potency anywhere. And I sifted through age old KI posts, and Google translated JP wiki. JP wiki did have something vaguely phrased about it being the potency of a job resist trait? but didn't explicitly state a value.

    I've just been using the newer two rings with the thought that stats tend to increase over time, and being old and hell, Shadow Ring probably has lower potency. But I didn't Know so I tested.

    Angra Mainyu in Dynamis Beaucedine is an amazing test mob for Death. Once he chainspells and come back from warping away once, he literally does nothing but Death and the Rare TP move.

    You can just lock in Twilight, RR, claim him him, then get Death'd. each cycle took maybe 20 seconds. 10 of that being waiting for RR to pop up.

    Anyway, Results.

    121 deaths cast.
    32 resists.
    96 dead.
    26.4% Proc rate.

    This is a small sample size, so the real value could like +/- 8% or so. But it's still waaay higher than I expected. I'd like to increase the sample size at some point, but haven't been able to find the time. Still, this is enough to tell us something useful. Use Shadow Ring over one of the newer rings.

    Part two - Resist all status Ailments gear.

    Now I admit, I screwed this test up pretty well. And it should be redone, but even so, I think it probably still shows how this works. Or rather, doesn't.

    Tested with Adamas, reportedly +20 resist all, and Staunch Tathlum. Issue being that I typo'd my lock command and wasn't actually wearing Staunch for a portion of the test. Which I didn't mark, so I don't know how long. And Adamas value is reported, but not well confirmed. So this whole test is kinda iffy.

    Anyway. Ate 35 deaths wearing Adamas, and sometimes Staunch. And never resisted. Which is I guess.. possible, but unlikely assuming Adamas' value is correct, and that resist all status gear works on death. I'm inclined to say it doesn't at this point. But I do think I should retest.

  7. #467
    Ridill
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    Makes a certain amount of sense. There is no death status effect so it's quite possibly not a status ailment

  8. #468
    Relic Horn
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    Sylph

    Based on testing Fallen's Sollerets +2, the augments on the reforged relic pieces are exactly the same as in the lower tier versions.

  9. #469
    Relic Horn
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    Sylph

    Has anyone ever tested the potency of Gnostic's drink, or the rough potency of Assassin's drink?

  10. #470
    Old Merits
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    Vampirisim Add effect testing

    Ahh, the results of curiosity and insomnia...

    I found myself curious about Vampirism's add effect. So I went to test.

    Rigged some GS code to not let my HP/MP/TP ever be full, and went to town on an Apex crab. Melee'd it till dead.

    Test 1.
    Normal TP gear.
    Mob lvl:129

    Code:
    Test 1			
    Hits	862		
    Crits	337		
    Total hits	1199		
    			
    Add effect	125		
    Proc rate	10.1		
    distribution	%	Drained
    HP	62	49.6	203
    MP	49	39.2	167
    TP	14	11.2	596
    		100	
    			
    Drained values			
    HP min	0		
    HP max	5		
    HP avg	3.274193548		
    			
    			
    MP min	0		
    MP max	5		
    MP avg	3.408163265		
    			
    			
    TP min	0		
    TP max	100		
    TP avg	42.57142857		
    			
    TP moves	33
    Now, I know I've seen a better proc rate than that in this thing just using it as a piercing wep vs that Zdei warden NM. SO I stacked up some macc in my TP set to see what would happen.

    Mob: lvl 128 Apex crab
    MACC+ 268 in gear. previous set had +25 already so 243 difference

    Once again, melee apex crab till dead.
    Code:
    Test 2 MACC TP			
    Hits	731		
    Crits	345		
    Total hits	1076		
    			
    Add effect	1031		
    Proc rate	94.94		
    distribution	%	drained
    HP	471	45.68380213	2264
    MP	467	45.29582929	2016
    TP	93	9.020368574	4566
    by %		100	
    			
    Drained values			
    HP min	0		
    HP max	5		
    HP avg	4.806794055		
    			
    			
    MP min	0		
    MP max	5		
    MP avg	4.316916488		
    			
    			
    TP min	0		
    TP max	100		
    TP avg	49.09677419		
    			
    TP moves	24
    So, we've gone from a 10% Proc rate to a 95% rate. Neat. Good evidence on the effects of macc on added effect proc rates, if anyone was wondering about that.

    HP and MP drain are the majority of the proc distribution at 45% each, leaving TP drain to proc 10% of the time.

    HP and MP are very static almost always draining 5 hp/mp. TP drain seems to vary from 0~100. Not sure if it drains some % of the mobs TP or just randomly selects a value in the range and drains if it can. The avg TP drain was 49 in a 0~100 range so even distribution seems likely.

    Also interesting is that the TP drained values are very nearly the same despite the macc different. seems like while the proc rate is vastly influenced by macc, the proc amount is not.

    It's too bad this doesn't just drain TP. it'd be pretty amazing if it did. even with the macc issue, I think you could completely shut down a mobs TP moves if it always drained TP. Not to mention, you know, getting a ton of extra TP.

  11. #471
    Sea Torques
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    I was messing around with the Dynamis Divergence H2H Su4 +1 weapon for MNK (Hesychast's Fists) @ R15 (30% follow up attack) and 0 multi-attack otherwise (except kick attacks) on Fortifications and it seems that the follow up attack proc only occurs once per attack around.

    I had 44% kick attack rate with JSE neck +1 R14 (14%), Ambuscade cape (10%) and 5/5 Kick Attack merits with KA III supposed to be 15% (not 14% as reported on wiki.ffo.jp but empirically shown to be 15% based on OF results from Diasetsu: https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Kick_Attacks). I looked at FUA on the MNK H2H specifically in this case since Raetic Baghnakhs are supposed to proc twice, so it would've been interesting from an Impetus standpoint or WS freq standpoint if Dynamis H2H could also

    You will see only a 4-attack round at most (with > 99.99% probability against the "null" that follow up attack can occur twice) with left hand > right hand > kick > right hand (this is the FUA)

    Count data

    number of attacks: counts (obs. freq)
    2: 90 (.4147)
    3: 98 (.4516)
    4: 29 (.1336)

    Total 217 attack rounds (then Campaign ended...)

    If using a probability model of exactly one FUA proc per attack round and 1 KA per attack round, then the expected frequencies are .392 for 2 attacks, .476 for 3 attacks, and .132 for 4 attacks.

    The observed proportions don't deviate significantly from the predicted proportions (you can run a Chi-square goodness of fit test here: https://www.socscistatistics.com/tes.../default2.aspx). Chi^2 statistic = 0.562 w/ p-value .75504.

    FYI there is a very brief discussion @ FFXIAH (link) on Su5 (Sagitta) MNK H2H path A that shows the double damage proc appearing to occur not just on the main attacks but also the multi-attacks and the offhand strikes, but there could be only one DD proc per attack round. Path B doesn't show the same possibility since there did not appear to be two attacks with the left hand during my data collection; a later attempt to get multi-hit counts w/ multi-attack traits (DA, TA, QA) +FUA would be helpful to rule out the possibility altogether.

    I also repeated this exercise removing all KA equipment, so only KAIII (15%) and 5/5 merits (5%) for a total of 20% KA rate. The corresponding probabilities based on 1 KA per attack round and 1 FUA per attack round are .56, .38, .06 for 2, 3, and 4 attacks respectively (still with 30% FUA rate):

    2: 354 (.5832)
    3: 216 (.3558)
    4: 34 (.0560)

    Total 607

    So again the results are consistent with only 1 follow-up attack per attack round (Chi^2 value = 1.669 w/ p-value = .43405)

    I did a negative control with NIN w/o Daken (no shuriken): 186/656 = .28353 FUA rate w/ 95% CI (.2493, .3197)

    Also with NIN + Daken: 137/450 = .3044 FUA rate w/ 95% CI (.2622, .3493)

    Also 356/450 = .791 Daken Rate (I have 79% Daken rate w/ Ninja Nodowa +2 @ R25 and max job points) so as expected Daken procs are independent of FUA like kick attacks are independent of FUA.

  12. #472
    Relic Horn
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    Quick test showing WSDMG does not cap at +100.

    I tested using 3000 TP Torcleaver with capped attack and 0 multi attack. The 2nd set has 18 more VIT, 17 more STR, and 20 more DEX, but the effects these have would have been dwarfed by it being capped if it was true.

    WSDMG +82
    60123
    58858

    WSDMG +125
    73888
    73632

    Difference in damage is ~24.0%

    If it were capped at +100, there'd be a predicted difference of ~9.9% (slightly more because of the extra stats), but the damage shows values consistent with it being uncapped, a difference of ~23.6%.

  13. #473
    BG Content
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    Fenrir

    Iridescence from Chatoyant Staff (I did not test with Iridal Staff, but I assume it's the same) does not add a separate +10% weather term, but rather boosts the weather term by an additional +10% when it does proc, turning single weather into +20% and double weather into +35%. Obi will force this to happen every time.

    Running around nuking low level enemies over 200 times in starter zones with Chatoyant Staff and Firestorm, I saw a 20% damage bonus about 40% of the time, but never saw a 10% damage bonus.

  14. #474
    Relic Horn
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    Sylph

    Testing Sylvie (UC)'s Entrust Indi-Frailty at ilvl 119.

    Test was on a level 124 Dullahan Axegrinder. It does not seem to use Infernal Bulwark, so don't worry about that aspect.

    Baseline test:
    1035 attack > high defense
    1036 attack > normal defense

    Level 124 Dullahan Axegrinders have 1036 defense.

    Indi-Frailty test:
    905 attack: high defense
    906 attack: normal defense

    906 defense under Sylvie (UC)'s Indi-Frailty

    Her Indi-Frailty gives -12.5% defense.

  15. #475
    i should really shut up
    You can safely ignore me I am a troll

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    Her Indi-Frailty gives -12.5% defense.
    Over three years ago I was sitting in an airport lounge in California with a beer and took that 17.5% from JP wiki or something. Good to see it wasn't right. Makes me to wonder how one of the numbers is so far off.

  16. #476
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    Lakshmi
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    That's about right for purely capped skill as a level 99 GEO with no merits and perhaps without even the 30 bonus skill from the 6/6 AF she wears.

  17. #477
    Relic Horn
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    Sylph

    As a prelude, I confirmed that Sylvie's bubbles do not depend on your ilvl; they are the same at 99 as at 119.

    Testing Sylvie's Indi-Haste:

    Dread Spikes w/ Hasso: 270 second recast (recast is capped at 255, but the value used for calculations uses the full amount).

    Dread Spikes w/ Hasso & Sylvie Indi-Haste: 192 second recast.

    Taking flooring into account, her Indi-Haste gives 28.6%-28.8% haste.

  18. #478
    i should really shut up
    You can safely ignore me I am a troll

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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    That's about right for purely capped skill as a level 99 GEO with no merits and perhaps without even the 30 bonus skill from the 6/6 AF she wears.
    Lockstyle strikes again. Sylvie is spiting us by only pretending to wear skill gear? Shes a real "'a' in the hole."

    Whats next, giving a RUN or NIN indi-haste instead of frailty?

  19. #479
    Relic Horn
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    Sylph

    Testing Sylvie's non-entrust Indi-Acumen.

    Naked BLM 99, 47 MAB (40 from job trait, 7 from job points)

    Fire VI on level 28 Clipper: 2353
    Fire VI on level 28 Clipper with Indi-Acumen:2689

    2353 * (1.47 + 0.21)/1.47 = 2689.143

    Non-Entrust Indi-Acumen gives 21 MAB.

  20. #480
    Relic Horn
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    Sylph

    Testing Sylvie's Entrust Indi-Acumen.

    Naked WHM 99, 0 MAB.

    Holy II on level 29 Clipper: 398
    Holy II on level 29 clipper with Entrust Indi-Acumen: 445

    398 * 1.12 = 445.76

    Entrust Indi-Acumen gives 12 MAB.

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