Scion FR-S, Toyota GT 86, Subaru BRZ

[Weederr33]

A subtle hood scoop would be pretty cool in my opinion!

[Dantrag]

Apparently I'm wrong, but not entirely. InsideLine's report goes against what other journalists have been saying about the layout. Many feel the engine bay wouldn't support the WRX setup for the intercooler, but insideline says it would. At any rate the turbo engine most likely wont be revealed until the WRX development process is complete. There are rumors that the BRZ may actually become the rally car rather than the WRX. They are developing a new turbo engine for compliance with WRC. So we'll see.

From what I've read there is no turbo in the works.

[jmc]

From what I've read there is no turbo in the works.

Also, since when has Subaru considered getting back into the wrc?

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[Dantrag]

Also, since when has Subaru considered getting back into the wrc?

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I never thought they left? I've seen their hatchback STi's run in some WRC iirc. But I don't follow it very closely, I just watch it when I can. I wish there was a channel that played it all the time when it was on.

[Amastacia]

I never thought they left? I've seen their hatchback STi's run in some WRC iirc. But I don't follow it very closely, I just watch it when I can. I wish there was a channel that played it all the time when it was on.

They pulled out a couple years ago, but a couple privateer teams kept running STI-based WRC cars for a bit.

There's been lots of rumors both ways about Subaru rejoining WRC, but the company itself has never said anything official.

There was a worry for a while that the Super 2000 rules that were being implemented would've made it impossible for the Subaru WRC car to use a boxer engine (spec engine and drivetrain), which probably helped accelerate their exit from the series. Those rules have since been modified, meaning that Subaru could return to competition with a boxer if they felt like it.

Generally speaking, though, once a company splits from motorsports, it doesn't dive back in. It does happen from time to time, but that's the exception, not the rule.

[Churchill]

there's a lot of politics in the racing series, politics that try to push out winning companies. best story in my opinion was BMW racing their V8 M3 and all the drama put up against it

[*Shinzon*]

They pulled out a couple years ago, but a couple privateer teams kept running STI-based WRC cars for a bit.

There's been lots of rumors both ways about Subaru rejoining WRC, but the company itself has never said anything official.

There was a worry for a while that the Super 2000 rules that were being implemented would've made it impossible for the Subaru WRC car to use a boxer engine (spec engine and drivetrain), which probably helped accelerate their exit from the series. Those rules have since been modified, meaning that Subaru could return to competition with a boxer if they felt like it.

Generally speaking, though, once a company splits from motorsports, it doesn't dive back in. It does happen from time to time, but that's the exception, not the rule.

Insiders have said the new engine is going to be a 1.6L pushing nearly 270Hp, that would be well in the range for WRC. Which is why once that engine is released for the WRX we'll get a better idea of what models that engine will make its way into. But yeah, like you said nothing is official yet, mostly just rumblings from test mules seen around. Also, the new WRX is rumored to be getting a severe downsize, I've heard some reports say that the car is actually going to be the same size as a Toyota Yaris.

[Amastacia]

Insiders have said the new engine is going to be a 1.6L pushing nearly 270Hp, that would be well in the range for WRC. Which is why once that engine is released for the WRX we'll get a better idea of what models that engine will make its way into. But yeah, like you said nothing is official yet, mostly just rumblings from test mules seen around. Also, the new WRX is rumored to be getting a severe downsize, I've heard some reports say that the car is actually going to be the same size as a Toyota Yaris.

I would be highly surprised if the 1.6L pushes more than about 240 HP to be honest. 150 HP/L seems to be about as high as most OEMs feel comfortable going with a factory product. On top of that, a 270 HP 1.6L would be pushing a ton of boost and I don't trust Subaru's materials or ECU tunes to be safe that far out on the ragged edge of OEM land.

They'd pretty much be forced to return to forged pistons and a fully closed deck (which the FA/FB series engine is not) to have a stout enough block. That would be costly, both from a materials standpoint and an engineering standpoint.

My guess for the WRX is a 2.0L FA or FB-based turbo boxer pushing 260-270HP with ~28-30 MPG on the highway (which no one will ever achieve without an undue amount of effort). If they bring a 1.6L turbo over here, they'll use it the same way Ford and Chevy are... to give small economy cars more pep and theoretically better mileage. Chassis-wise, I wouldn't be surprised if they redid the sheet metal on the current WRX/STI chassis and included more high strength steel in the unibody to reduce weight somewhat. They don't do enough WRX/STI volume anymore for the cost of a complete chassis redesign to be worth it, unless they can heavily leverage the new BRZ chassis as a starting point (think 4 door, AWD BRZ).

[*Shinzon*]

I would be highly surprised if the 1.6L pushes more than about 240 HP to be honest. 150 HP/L seems to be about as high as most OEMs feel comfortable going with a factory product. On top of that, a 270 HP 1.6L would be pushing a ton of boost and I don't trust Subaru's materials or ECU tunes to be safe that far out on the ragged edge of OEM land.

They'd pretty much be forced to return to forged pistons and a fully closed deck (which the FA/FB series engine is not) to have a stout enough block. That would be costly, both from a materials standpoint and an engineering standpoint.

My guess for the WRX is a 2.0L FA or FB-based turbo boxer pushing 260-270HP with ~28-30 MPG on the highway (which no one will ever achieve without an undue amount of effort). If they bring a 1.6L turbo over here, they'll use it the same way Ford and Chevy are... to give small economy cars more pep and theoretically better mileage. Chassis-wise, I wouldn't be surprised if they redid the sheet metal on the current WRX/STI chassis and included more high strength steel in the unibody to reduce weight somewhat. They don't do enough WRX/STI volume anymore for the cost of a complete chassis redesign to be worth it, unless they can heavily leverage the new BRZ chassis as a starting point (think 4 door, AWD BRZ).

Yeah I don't doubt those engines specs to be exaggerated quite a bit. I also agree that for WRC they won't entirely develop a new chassis for the the WRX. It will most certainly be a raised and modified version of what the BRZ rides on, and it would in line with what has been said about the size matching a Toyota Yaris too.

[Diamicles]

They pulled out a couple years ago, but a couple privateer teams kept running STI-based WRC cars for a bit.

Thus the reason why Ken Block went from driving an Impreza to a Fiesta.

[Amastacia]

Thus the reason why Ken Block went from driving an Impreza to a Fiesta.

Not that it ultimately matters, he's just another guy of middling talent who bought himself a ride. He was angling hard for a Subaru WRC seat and seems to have no interest in privateer teams. Sadly, he doesn't have the chops to really make it as an A or B driver for any of the factory teams in the WRC.

Props to him for brilliant marketing and exposure of genuinely awesome forms of motorsport, but the next Loeb (and I hate Loeb) he is not.

[Diamicles]

Not that it ultimately matters, he's just another guy of middling talent who bought himself a ride. He was angling hard for a Subaru WRC seat and seems to have no interest in privateer teams. Sadly, he doesn't have the chops to really make it as an A or B driver for any of the factory teams in the WRC.

Props to him for brilliant marketing and exposure of genuinely awesome forms of motorsport, but the next Loeb (and I hate Loeb) he is not.

no doubt, but if you had the money and could drive pretty well (which he actually can, not top tier but better than typical rally shitheads) wouldn't you do the same?

on topic: I still think that the BRZ is going to be a fantastic track day car for a lot of people who wouldn't normally have the money to drive something that would perform well at the track.

[Amastacia]

no doubt, but if you had the money and could drive pretty well (which he actually can, not top tier but better than typical rally shitheads) wouldn't you do the same?

on topic: I still think that the BRZ is going to be a fantastic track day car for a lot of people who wouldn't normally have the money to drive something that would perform well at the track.

I'd totally get involved in motorsport, but I hate the whole concept of buying a ride (even though it's as old as motorsport) with a top team.

I can't at all blame him for what he did, or begrudge him (or anyone else) for doing it, I just know for myself I'd have more fun trying to build the best car (for which having deep pockets is a great boon) and then drive my face off gunning for the top.

Guess it was just the way I was raised, and I know the world doesn't always, or even often, work that way, but I'd rather earn a top seat through merit rather than money. Can't get away from the "who you know, not what you know" aspect to get certain opportunities in the first place, but hey, I can hope.

I have the most respect for drivers who work up to top series by winning lower series, and then wind up as the A drivers on the best teams by doing a great job with slower teams.

[Dantrag]

Official specs from Scion page:

Length 166.7 in.
Width 69.9 in.
Height 51.2 in. (not including antenna base)
Wheelbase 101.2 in.
Track
Front 59.8 in.
Rear 60.6 in.
Seating Capacity 4
Engine
Total Displacement 1,998 cc
Type Horizontally opposed four-cylinder, D-4S injection, DOHC
Bore x Stroke 86 x 86 mm
Maximum Output 200hp @ 7,000 rpm
Maximum Torque 151 lb.-ft. @ 6,600 rpm
Maximum Engine Speed 7,400 rpm
Transmission 6-speed manual or 6-speed automatic with paddle shifters
Driveline Rear-wheel drive
Suspension
Front MacPherson Struts
Rear Double wishbone
Brakes
Front Ventilated Disc
Rear Ventilated Disc
Tires
Front 215/45R17
Rear 215/45R17
Fuel tank 13.2 gallons
Fuel Premium Unleaded

Just for reference of the others listed earlier:

tC:

Length 174.0 in (4,420 mm)
Width 70.7 in (1,796 mm)
Height 55.7 in (1,415 mm)

Mustang GT:

Length 187.6 in (4,770 mm)
Width 74 in (1,900 mm)
Height 54.5 in (1,380 mm)

Mazda Miata:

Length 158.3 in
Width 67.7 in (1,720 mm)
Height 1,255 mm (49.4 in)

FR-S:

Length 166.7 in.
Width 69.9 in.
Height 51.2 in. (not including antenna base)

7.3" Shorter(length wise) than the tC
20.9" Shorter than the Mustang
8.4" Longer than the Miata

.8" skinnier than the tC
4.1" skinnier than the Mustang
2.2" wider than the Miata


4.5" Shorter than the tC
3.3" Shorter than the Mustang
1.8" Taller than the Miata

[Heavencloud]

God this car looks sick.

[jmc]

Little bit of a bump.... pre-poduction BRZ @ Subaru of New England in norwood, MA

Spoiler: show

[Dantrag]

Still no official price.

[Omniyoji]

Only 6000 Subaru BRZ Coupes Headed to U.S. for 2013, Pre-Orders Being Accepted

Driving purists of America, act fast: It seems just 6000 Subaru BRZ sports cars will be allocated to the U.S. for the 2013 model year. The specific number comes to us from a Subaru dealer; the automaker’s consumer web site merely states that the rear-drive-only BRZ will be built in “extremely limited quantities.”

When asked for comment, Subaru representatives wouldn’t confirm the figure, but the company had previously stated that the business case for the sports coupe required 5000 to 7000 to be sold at around $25,000—what we didn’t know at that time was that availability here would be capped. Although pre-orders are now being accepted, U.S. pricing for the BRZ still hasn’t been released. Deposits are said to be fully refundable, while those that keep their money down can expect deliveries of pre-ordered cars to occur in a wide window stretching from May through November of this year.

We’ve been told that the car is already proving popular; couple that with the limited number being offered and you’ll want to move now to get yours. The fact that the BRZ is really, really good is another reason you might want to hop in line. If you miss out at the Subaru store, though, you can always try Scion: It will be selling the BRZ’s mechanical twin, the FR-S.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/only-60...eing-accepted/

Is Subaru holding back on releasing info of a possible STI model or is the Limited the only high-end model?

[jmc]

Oh snap, the new 2006 Spec-B!

[Dantrag]

$24,200 base price