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  1. #1061
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    im not saying you NEED two pld just so you can keep it up because its too hard to keep up for naraka. the order in which mobs killed are not always the same but generally we kill naraka last for wave1 with the kiting pld getting in for circle but this is also determined by what stance he is in. wave 2 iron giant is the only mob that we keep in the same order, and hes always first of wave 2. if by some chance that wave 2 naraka is in mdt stance we will generally get it out of the way while it is up, and will get the OTHER non kiting pld in for circle.
    i understand that this can buffed up to 4:30 duration/recast, but again this is just more of a failsafe depending on the order in which mobs are killed.

  2. #1062
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    Yes, there are 2 points of having 2 Paladins, obviously both are not needed, but make things a lot faster/safer.

    Firstly, it affects your kill speed. One PLD holds the Naraka on both waves, the other kites the rest of the mobs. Should the Naraka use Raksha Stance(the MDT one), our next mob will be the Naraka, since he will not have his PDT up and will die a lot faster.

    Secondly, it makes the run a lot more safe if you want to speed it up the way explained above. Should the Naraka switch to Raksha with 2 other mobs alive still, it will be hard for the PLD to run to the alliance and holy circle them, without anyone getting hit by the mobs he's still kiting.

    I can actually think of another advantage of 2 PLDs, which is holding the Gallu(or Botulus, if you run low on time and need a faster kill). You can't really kite them since they run at 150~200% speed, and both have moves that can end your solo PLD life fast. Using 2 PLDs, they can just bounce hate back and forth while the alliance kills the other mob.

    Edit: And before I forget, you will -not- need SMN debuffs such as the eva/atk down. The atk down would help, but it won't land reliably on the mobs you want it to land on. The eva down doesn't matter, your DD are supposed to use Sushi anyway, and your RNGs are supposed to have Hunter's roll along with Racc sets(using Curry), putting both the DD and RNGs at 90-95% Acc and Racc respectively. Now I'm sure, some of you will go "lol noob using sushi", but it obviously works better than some groups using curry and having 80% acc. You would be surprised how much sushi really does in Mul. And if you think you don't need Acc and don't use PD, think about using Carbonara, the extra HP will help you more than Curry will(you can't DD too well when you are dead).

    As for the Gallu and MS thing, we haven't really done anything but will Shadowbind the next time we go, we just spammed cures and ate it, didn't go so well every time though.

  3. #1063
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    For the non PD group, you guys make your dd full time hybrid dt/haste setup in case of a one shot tp move go through and this rng outdamaging them by being able to full time dd gear ?

    If so why don't you simply use Scherzo/EA to avoid 1 shot move so your dd can go all out and just have the one with hate/not full hp switching to hybrid gear ?

  4. #1064
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    What is your SCH's stun gear look like? I like to get my group to try this but I am not sure what I should ask the SCHs to wear (ie. the best haste pieces).

  5. #1065
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    With Haste and Embrava, you shouldn't need much haste between three SCH.

    Code:
                    <main>Apamajas II</main>
                    <body>Scholar's Gown +1</body>
                    <legs>Portent Pants</legs>
                    <neck>Aesir Torque</neck>
                    <feet>Augur's Gaiters</feet>
                    <waist>Rairin Obi</waist>
                    <head>A'as Circlet</head>
    		   <rring>Strendu Ring</rring>
    		   <back>Chela Cape</back>
    That's not even the "best" set either. If you search for Sawtelle's FFXIAH sets, he has a decent stun set there too.

  6. #1066
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    That set is notably missing Argute Loafers +2.

  7. #1067
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    No, Argute Loafers are notably missing from Dynamis.

  8. #1068
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    That set is notably missing Argute Loafers +2.
    Worth noting that those are only relevant with Alacrity charges left (and Thunderstorm up).

    Even without Alacrity charges left, you can still get your timer down low, but that's when the haste gear comes into play. If you don't have Alacrity charges, you'll want to use Scholar's Loafers (not Augur's Gaiters) and Argute Mortarboard +2 to directly cut 15% off your recast timer, in addition to other haste/Fast Cast gear you might sub in other slots.

    Some other missing stuff:
    With or w/o alacrity: Repartie Gloves (15 m.acc, +2% FC)
    With alacrity: Appetence (DM+10) or Striga Crown (DM+15)

    You may also want to play around with insta-cast (utilizing as many pieces of AF+2 as you can without sacrificing tons of accuracy, along with Impatiens and Witful Belt), but there isn't really enough gear in the game right now to make that reliable (you might be able to push the instacast rate up to 15% or so, but not much higher).

    Why are you using Rairin Obi? I have never seen any proof that elemental obis affect magic accuracy of relevant elements. In fact, the only evidence I've ever seen, although it was not very concrete, was to the contrary.

    Reference: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/735...Magic-Accuracy

    Witful Belt seems appropriate anyway, at least when Alacrity isn't up, for its Haste, FC, and insta-cast potential.

  9. #1069
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slycer View Post
    Why are you using Rairin Obi? I have never seen any proof that elemental obis affect magic accuracy of relevant elements.
    This AF2+2 augment heavily suggests that weather provides a random buff to macc as well as the random buff to magic damage we know it provides, so it's only natural to think that the forced proc of the obi applies as well to macc.

  10. #1070
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taim Meich View Post
    This AF2+2 augment heavily suggests that weather provides a random buff to macc as well as the random buff to magic damage we know it provides, so it's only natural to think that the forced proc of the obi applies as well to macc.
    "Weather-Related" is a poor choice of words in that article. The source of that might even be one of my translations, I don't really remember. If it was, poor choice of words on my part. The meaning behind that is that the active weather effect will trigger a magic accuracy bonus at a certain rate when Altruism or Focalization is up. "This is similar to wearing an obi with weather" was added by the editor and isn't based on any information from SE so I wouldn't use that as validation. A more appropriate wording of the sentence in question would be "Enhances Altruism and Focalization by adding a potential Magic Accuracy bonus of the current weather at a rate of 15% per merit level."

    As a counterpoint, the statistic on feet, for which weather enhances the effects of celerity and alacrity, increases the spellcast (and recast) reduction effects of those stratagems. Of course, weather itself, in the absence of those stratagems, doesn't have any effect on spellcast or recast.

    I'm not suggesting that it's certainly wrong, but I'm fairly certain that it's never been tested, only assumed, and the only test I've ever seen from which any conclusion could be drawn (referenced above) actually implies that there is no effect.

  11. #1071
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    The set isn't intended to show optimization (That's why I referenced another set); the set is to show how little you can gear and get away with. I did use the obi for the reason Taim posted though. The post is by Zirael:

    Argute Mortarboard +2 Altruism/Focalisation: (literally as friend told me: ) make rate up to weather midify acc+, +15% rate/merit (spell element same as weather gets +15% Macc/merit?)
    Unlike Argute feet, the effect is enhanced chance of proc rather than a bonus. Even though the post says "friend", the information is from a magazine.

  12. #1072
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    Well, it is of course an assumption until proven, but there's a paralelism with the augment on Argute Bracers +2, which actually increase the chance of the weather damage, making it 100% at 5/5, without the need of an obi. It's not too farfetched to think that Argute Mortatboard +2 doesn't actually add macc, but instead increases the chance of an existing (under the correct weather) macc bonus to happen, like hands does with damage.

  13. #1073
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yugl View Post
    Unlike Argute feet, the effect is enhanced chance of proc rather than a bonus. Even though the post says "friend", the information is from a magazine.
    I assume the "friend" part implies "my japanese friend told me thats what it says"

  14. #1074
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yugl View Post
    Unlike Argute feet, the effect is enhanced chance of proc rather than a bonus. Even though the post says "friend", the information is from a magazine.
    I'm not debating what the augment does. The magazine/friend/whatever says that the augment adds a +15% chance for a magic accuracy modifier based on the weather, and we've always assumed that to be the case because it would be annoying to test and that info came straight from SE anyway. What I'm curious to check out here is a more general question, that is, does weather or day in general have a chance to modify magic accuracy? This is something that could surely benefit from testing as it has far more implications and applicability than just Stun (and this conversation doesn't really belong in this thread, moreso in the random magic facts thread, but just for continuity I'm posting this here).

  15. #1075
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    Initial tests ages ago indicated that it did not have an effect, but they were done in less-than-ideal conditions with a lower-than-ideal sample size. I don't remember if it was statistically conclusive and if so what level it was at.

  16. #1076
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    Quote Originally Posted by NynJa View Post
    I assume the "friend" part implies "my japanese friend told me thats what it says"
    Code:
    不惜身命&一心精進:天候補正による命中率アップの確率+15%
    =

    Altruism & Focalization: Based on matching weather - +15% Chance of Accuracy Bonus ("accuracy up")

    Translating this into NA-equivalent gear terms, if it was actually on the gear it would actually say something like:

    "Altruism & Focalization: Depending on weather: Occasionally Increases Magic Accuracy"

    (with occasionally = +15% chance per merit)

  17. #1077
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    editing double post into something relevant:

    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Initial tests ages ago indicated that it did not have an effect, but they were done in less-than-ideal conditions with a lower-than-ideal sample size. I don't remember if it was statistically conclusive and if so what level it was at.
    http://robonosto.blogspot.com/2008/1...-rates_29.html

    Notable (and potentially inconclusive) conclusion:
    "Neither Firesday nor Iceday seems to affect the accuracy of Paralyze."

    Notes to how he got to that conclusion are scattered throughout, mostly in the top 1/3. The confidence intervals of the Firesday and Iceday effects overlap significantly.

    Regardless, testing like that with Paralyze is less than ideal. The fastest way to test would be naked casting (except for relevant obi) with elemental nukes since they have immediately obvious resist states and ensuring that your magic hit rate is not capped, preferably around 60-70%, and ensuring your target has no normal resistance or weakness to the element you're testing. Then, for example, you could go on Lightningday, amplify the supposed magic accuracy boosting effect by using Thunderstorm, cast Thunder a hundred times, then check the supposed nerf effect by casting Water a few hundred times. Obviously, you'd need a control sample as well from a non-impacting day with no weather effects. If the effect is significant, 100 of each (possibly even fewer) should be more than enough to establish that something is indeed happening. Would take way more to get specific, but the point would just be to prove whether or not weather/day impact magic accuracy, not by how much.

  18. #1078
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    Wouldnt the same be viable to test via aeolian edge? The number of targets doesnt seem to affect damage or macc, and windsday is followed by iceday, just track resists?

  19. #1079
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    Quote Originally Posted by NynJa View Post
    Wouldnt the same be viable to test via aeolian edge? The number of targets doesnt seem to affect damage or macc, and windsday is followed by iceday, just track resists?
    Yeah, that would work. So would -ga nukes (number of targets would impact damage, but half resist or worse would be obvious to pick out from the rest). Problem would be to find monsters that are resistant enough to yield a noticeable resist rate but won't rape you while you're trying to test (AE is pretty accurate, I'm not sure what you'd test on - if your accuracy was high enough to be far beyond the hit rate cap, then you may not see any effect on iceday even if there really is one). Only surefire thing I can think of is high end Voidwatch mobs on the test server and just keeping Fanatic's up until you're dead.

  20. #1080
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    Those should work but controlling monster level is difficult when your test method kills them. That's what makes debuffs ideal.

    I'd use the test server to spam Elegy (Earthsday) against Hmpedes in sea. It overwrites itself, doesn't do damage, and you can adjust your level so that the pure Resist rate is whatever you want. I'd start at about level 65 against level 77 Hpemdes with no skill merits (and an instrument of course) and collect control samples first.

    It doesn't cost MP. You can March yourself. Spamspamspam!

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