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  1. #1301
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    yikes, can anyone remind this guy that we're talking about a video game?

  2. #1302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raistlinratt View Post
    Not to be condescending or anything, but what Keityan had posted is entirely different than what you have posted. Sure, they are both concerning Amano/Yoichi Samurai, but here are the major differences.

    A. Keityan has been doing this strategy for a long time (over a year just in legion), so this is not someone who is just “exploring” or “testing” this strategy out. He has the experience and knowledge that not only demonstrates “exactly” what makes it work, but how to replicate it. The knowledge of “distance” is just one idea but here’s more.

    B. He’s pinpointed exactly “which” mobs work and which ones don’t. The Harpy, Gallu, and Mantis. Your data shows nothing of the sort, just random, otherwise “weak” Namas Arrow damage with a high WS frequency.

    C. He’s pinpointed the “correct” reason why Namas is winning. With his analysis along with perfect defense, amnesia shouldn’t make a difference, yet Namas is still winning. All you are doing is spewing false information all over the place. The reason why it’s good is because the damage is hax broken, not simply because it is hateless damage.

    D. As he said, this strategy isn’t proprietary over just one LS. There’s plenty of other NA LS’s that do this, why blame him if he didn’t post it earlier? To some people who are actually good at their jobs, they take these things for granted.


    While we appreciate your "analysis" after only using it a few times in past week or two?, Keityan's is much more complete and informative. His is refined, so yeaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, we did need his post on the forums, obviously. The distance detail alone can mean the difference between a 3900 dmg namas and a 4653 dmg namas, substantial in my opinion.

    Here is a post on the FFXIAH forums proving that people knew about this before you think the almighty JPs "enlightened" us poor NAs to the "secret" strat of utilizing namas to its potential on samurai.



    I can't post the stupid link to the post because i need 10 posts before i can do links... but this is the ending part, just add the beginning

    /forum/topic/33352/relic-bow-v-relic-gun/#2105947



    While the amano/yoichi sam strategy may have been known and used for a long time on other servers, that's not so much the case on Asura. In fact, very few shells/groups seem to be doing Legion here with a reasonable level of success. And if it's really been that common as you are saying, I find it odd that noone has posted about it here until fairly recently, with parses to show what they're talking about.

    Keityan's post is informative and thorough, yes. He's also apparently run separate parses per mob to make it even more detailed. But saying Iron's "spewing false information all over the place" and implying he's not good at his job (he very clearly is) and doesn't take it seriously (he clearly does), is just an attempt at starting shit and has no place here.

  3. #1303
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronPandemonium View Post
    while i'm sure it goes without saying that we all appreciate the in-depth comparisons to a notable degree, i myself was never under the impression we needed it since really, what you showed us was pretty much what i posted on the page before, in a nutshell, and i'm not trying to come off as condescending here either by any means, just... i think people get the idea that samurai with yoichi's bow - paired with red curry accessed via abusing amanomurakumo's accuracy for proper, efficient tp cumulation - has unacknowledged potential (though shouldn't be bandwagoned by any means, really, since you can't go mass samurai or else the strategy kind of fucks itself over)

    thing is though, while everyone were already doing 18-kill-clears here and there without a single bow samurai in sight in their alliance, you're feeling the need to go thoroughly over it now suddenly - only after the light's been shined on it - preaching that it's supposedly an old tactic, when clearly it hasn't been ever mentioned before until Ccl mentioned it last week or so via the japanese shell demonstrating it to him, much in the same sense of him demonstrating it to me (just to emphasize that even i didn't know of it until recently)

    basically what i'm getting at here is, and i'm not trying to come off as if i'm attacking you here or anything stupid along those lines, because starting shit here's the least of my interest, but yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you should've posted that post in particular ages ago, back when you and your shell supposedly knew about it exclusively, so you would've enlightened us all; otherwise, let's just stick to constructive opinions on decimating the event as a whole instead of the whole dunning-kruger effect-ridden thing we've got going on there with that post

    i will say though, if there's one thing to capitalize on in your post, it's the standing distance from your target being a massive factor with your namas consistency, because i'll admit in the parse i posted earlier for example, sustaining proper, efficient distance wasn't something i wasn't focusing on at all: just positioning was in my mind at the time (immense physical pain, all the while fighting to stay awake = woohoo), and because of that, my average certainly did hurt quite a bit, as shown compared to yours in those parses, and hell, probably even my namas accuracy, but i'm selling my second vulcan's pearl since i'm 99% certain it jams anyways due to square enix being silly gooses and making earrings/rings of the same name incapable of reliably swapping in when you tell them to at the same time, especially in laggy zones such as legion; that recent change aside in my set, i'd swap bellona's ring for aife's ring, if i had it and could in fact still cap namas hit rate consistently

    oh, and in case it wasn't pointed out yet: murasamemaru absolutely eats the adamantoises alive inside of the An chamber lol
    I prefaced mine just like he did, Everything is cool if you just say "with all due respect" beforehand right?

    WITH ALL DUE RESPECT! iron pandemonium really hasn't perfected/fully tested the "secret JP namas strat" fully enough to post something like that to someone who most likely was the first or one of the first to discover it. To discredit and imply that he's lying seems silly. He also didn't go into detail and seems mad/butthurt that this has been known for a while yet "not even the almighty iron.pandemonium knew about it!" lol...the fact remains that iron left out a lot of crucial information and keityan made an informative and thorough post, only to have iron respond with that (even if it has disclaimers, it comes off bad imo)

    I am one of the top DD on bismarck, yet I haven't (until today) ever posted on BG. I don't see why its so surprising that not everyone gets on BG forums to brag or share strategies. Our LS tends to keep to themselves and not discuss strategies (ls rule actually to not disclose strats) and honestly, with how much people are trolled or every sentence torn apart, can you blame anyone for not bothering to post? I talk about namas arrow in the legion forums, specifically in response to discussions where it was clearly stated you needed certain buffs to attain the high damage, and still get some guy posting in response saying i'm giving false information because I didn't tailor my post to be read by bandwagoners. Okay, thanks.

    Not to be an asshole, but blindly using namas arrow on everything, and then posting the parse where you won, leading everyone to believe that its the best or 'on par with shoha even with zerk down' , when clearly it isn't, doesn't qualify as being top-tier on your job. Iron started using namas in legion a week ago? yet is in such a hurry to dismiss keityan's post even though keityan clearly demonstrates he is more familiar of when/why/how to use it. Keityan also goes into some details about timing your buffs, you can't blindly use berserk when using yoichi, you have to tailor your timers around the mobs and kill order, something iron probably doesn't do. But whatever, keep on thinking Namas only wins because you avoid amnesia, its cool. The last thing I want to do is start shit on these forums (Insert inflammatory comment here about iron being a cocky scrub on lolasura)

    See how that works?

    peace out, rip me a new one, tear apart posts and make fun of typos, call me asshole, noob, whatever. I just wanted to respond to my best friend iron. Keep on pubstomping noobs in parses! you are my hero

  4. #1304
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    You yourself said "plenty of other NA LS's do this", which is why I find it odd that it's not been posted on BG before - which again makes me think that "plenty" is an overstatement. Your ls don't disclose strategies, fine. But I'd say it's quite the coincidence if that's the case with every one of the "plenty of NA LS's" you're talking about. Also, it's quite apparent from your posts that you're attacking Iron because you dislike him, you should have left the personal attacks and sarcasms out - those, combined with the fact that you registered on BG today seemingly for the sole purpose of posting in this thread - well it makes you seem like the mad/butthurt one here.

    The whole point of this thread is to post/discuss Legion strategies. That might mean questioning other people's strategies and discussing/comparing them to your own, and disagreeing with others too, even.

  5. #1305
    An exploitable mess of a card game
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    Keityan's post is more nuanced. Anyone with basic knowledge of mob DT resistance will understand why he chooses the mobs he does (Though Ironclad is a mystery since I tested Piercing Damage against an Abyssea Ironclad and found no resistance), but few people look into that for events. That said, for some of those posts, he should have used WS Avg to better demonstrate Shoha v Namas against different NMs rather than total WS DMG.

    I had a greater post worked out, but essentially: Botulus (25%), Hahava (50-75%), and Ironclad (None) share a significant resistance against piercing damage. Even going from Nama's 25% resistance to Mura's non-resistance is about 33% increase in damage alone.

  6. #1306

    Not sure why everyone cares so much, it's not like the Yoichi SAM is doing 1.5x the damage of a WAR, it's a fraction at best and there are groups using no PD and a RNG PT killing 18 mobs to their 14.

  7. #1307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keichan View Post
    As mac had described, the use of Amano+Yoichi isn't a recent development and many of the LS's in Bismarck use this strategy already.

    Background: First off, our LS runs with a PD strategy that involves 5 DD's. We are typically buffed with 1 Dauru/Carna/Gjaller BRD and 1 COR.
    1)Yeah this pretty much have never been discussed on bg, and some seemed doubtfull when I 1st posted it.

    2) This is prolly why/where our number differ for now, we use a total of 8 DD(4 melee/4rng) 2 cor(chaos/fighter/hunter/sam) 1 brd(4song/horn/no mythic) and no PD.

    Ussually Mighty Strike/Souleater wear off after rex die and waste a few/all the time remaining on them before we engage gallu(we don't engage a gallu that just used MS) I assume this right here kinda favor our sam over our drk and war.

  8. #1308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raistlinratt View Post
    get some guy posting in response saying i'm giving false information because I didn't tailor my post to be read by bandwagoners. Okay, thanks.
    Whoa, you're certainly one defensive person.

    For the record, there is a world of difference between the terms "misleading" and "false". My issue with your post was regarding the former, I don't recall accusing you of the latter, but if you wanna read it for what it's not, and get hot and bothered by it, go right ahead.

    That being said, I find it ironic given you just posted:

    Not to be an asshole, but blindly using namas arrow on everything, and then posting the parse where you won, leading everyone to believe that its the best blah blah blah
    Which was precisely my point. Even in the context of Legion, Namas Arrow isn't automatic "hax broken" damage that gives you an I win button. Given you're internet raging about this, I'm terribly surprised my point went over your head the way it did.

  9. #1309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrooge View Post
    Given you're internet raging about this, I'm terribly surprised my point went over your head the way it did.
    as much as i'd prefer to keep this whole ordeal minimized and non-existent in this thread, i feel it's necessary to point out that the dude literally loses his shit whenever he's reminded i exist, though quite frankly, now that i think about it, i'm fairly certain i'm on his mind 24.7 to the point where he's driven to insanity, hence his irrational replies, so i apologize on his behalf for his conduct

    quite frankly, i didn't even read his posts, since before i even pulled up bg today, i said hey on my linkshell and i had like three different people informing me that some dude who's outright mad as fuck created an account on bg just to retort a post or two of mine, so i roll my eyes, put on my thinking cap and ponder to myself, "who might it be", and sure enough, i'm told it's the guy who's gone and pm'd me like 3-4 different times on ffxiah.com just because he's buttdevastated by my posts/presence on the fucking internet, pardon my french

    i hate to add to the shitstorm, but yeah, back on-topic,

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDangerousDave View Post
    Not sure why everyone cares so much, it's not like the Yoichi SAM is doing 1.5x the damage of a WAR, it's a fraction at best and there are groups using no PD and a RNG PT killing 18 mobs to their 14.
    100% this basically; yes - it's cool that samurai can complete/beat the warriors and dark knights in legion via yoichinoyumi - but it's not a complete ground pound by any means, to where it's not even really worth bandwagoning over ragnarok suddenly, especially since it's been pointed out outside of legion, it loses all its' credibility anyways, because then you're not being stunned and/or hit with amnesia if you happen to have the most enmity, you can also tp in your standard shit so you don't require amanomurakumo's accuracy boost, and last but not importantly least, level correction isn't as severe (or at least i'm pretty sure the only thing that compares to gallu/rex is provenance watcher level-wise)

    anyways, sorry for bringing a cool story along into this thread bros, but yeah, welcome to why i don't post often these days and also why i'm not bothered whatsoever that i'm b&'d off ah.com's forum lol

  10. #1310
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDangerousDave View Post
    Not sure why everyone cares so much, it's not like the Yoichi SAM is doing 1.5x the damage of a WAR, it's a fraction at best and there are groups using no PD and a RNG PT killing 18 mobs to their 14.
    The group killing 18 has 18 individual players all doing their job well. The PD group uses a number of 2 boxes.

    I don't know about you but I'd already have a very difficult time finding 9-12 good players, let alone 18.

  11. #1311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fake View Post
    I don't know about you but I'd already have a very difficult time finding 9-12 good players, let alone 18.
    the sad reality of ffxi these days, yeah, hence why legion's so "difficult" lol

  12. #1312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fake View Post
    The group killing 18 has 18 individual players all doing their job well. The PD group uses a number of 2 boxes.

    I don't know about you but I'd already have a very difficult time finding 9-12 good players, let alone 18.


    Amen to that....

    And its sad when people can play 2/3 accounts better then most people can play their main.

  13. #1313
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    What's the consensus on precast sets for whm in legion? With the lag spikes and 2000+ R's I wonder how often I'm finishing cures in the wrong set. Considering using precast only for curagas, thoughts?

    edit: I'm always /sch if that factors into the discussion

  14. #1314
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    Trust me I've been pushing to use some more ranger/cor to push past our 15 kill best, but the resources just aren't there. We don't even bring a thief and all we have is th2 from our 1 cor subbing thief hehe.

    I know it's not 18, but 15 almost 16 with what we use is pretty good I think.

    Anyhow, all the best gear and weapons won't do shit if the player is lagging or slacking. Engaging slower, hitting your buttons slower, getting stuck on people all will contribute to parsing lower. We don't use any 0ja or gm flags or other tools so getting stuck on other players/avatars will cost you a few swings and put you lower on the rankings. Engaging just 2 seconds slower per mob can easily cost you 20k overall dmg in the parse.

    All things said, Keit usually comes out on top due to mura advantage, that's just the nature of legion and how it plays to a sam's strenths and gear. Take out of this what you will. Don't expect to magically parse the best even if you got a mura/amano/yochi, you still gotta be a good and attentive player.

    So if you've already got your rag, don't bother gearing up your sam, unless you're one of those guys who must always play sam cause he's always played sam. It's better, but not by a whole lot, makes sam viable if you really must. If your group has a bunch of DD anyways, prob wont matter much anyhow. For our 5 dd method, losing one DD will screw us hehe.

  15. #1315
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    Originally Posted by Raistlinratt View Post
    Not to be condescending or anything, but what Keityan had posted is entirely different than what you have posted. Sure, they are both concerning Amano/Yoichi Samurai, but here are the major differences.

    A. Keityan has been doing this strategy for a long time (over a year just in legion), so this is not someone who is just “exploring” or “testing” this strategy out. He has the experience and knowledge that not only demonstrates “exactly” what makes it work, but how to replicate it. The knowledge of “distance” is just one idea but here’s more.

    B. He’s pinpointed exactly “which” mobs work and which ones don’t. The Harpy, Gallu, and Mantis. Your data shows nothing of the sort, just random, otherwise “weak” Namas Arrow damage with a high WS frequency.

    C. He’s pinpointed the “correct” reason why Namas is winning. With his analysis along with perfect defense, amnesia shouldn’t make a difference, yet Namas is still winning. All you are doing is spewing false information all over the place. The reason why it’s good is because the damage is hax broken, not simply because it is hateless damage.

    D. As he said, this strategy isn’t proprietary over just one LS. There’s plenty of other NA LS’s that do this, why blame him if he didn’t post it earlier? To some people who are actually good at their jobs, they take these things for granted.


    While we appreciate your "analysis" after only using it a few times in past week or two?, Keityan's is much more complete and informative. His is refined, so yeaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, we did need his post on the forums, obviously. The distance detail alone can mean the difference between a 3900 dmg namas and a 4653 dmg namas, substantial in my opinion.

    Here is a post on the FFXIAH forums proving that people knew about this before you think the almighty JPs "enlightened" us poor NAs to the "secret" strat of utilizing namas to its potential on samurai.



    I can't post the stupid link to the post because i need 10 posts before i can do links... but this is the ending part, just add the beginning

    /forum/topic/33352/relic-bow-v-relic-gun/#2105947
    You are right, my dislike for iron pandemonium couldn't be hidden in my posts. It doesn't change the facts, however, that I clearly pointed out, so I can see why he wants to dismiss them and play it off like i'm just some rager who messaged him 3-4 different times (it was actually just one time with multiple messages being exchanged in a single day).

    Iron tried to dismiss a informative post that was very clearly nothing close to what he tried to pass off as being his 'in a nutshell'. I got mad that someone immediately responded with something I felt was unnecessary given the context, and I apologize, which is why I don't post. me = does not play well with others. I guess i shoulda came into the forums and spammed WAR/SAM a few times to get credibility and not be dismissed.

    All iron had to do was say "oh nice info, thanks" or something. instead he posts and comes off as an asshole, implying that keityan is lying and his info wasn't needed because iron had already stated as much. Clearly, as anyone with reading skills can see, this wasn't the case. I don't expect iron to admit he was wrong, even after i proved, beyond a doubt, that people did know and had posted about this stuff in public forums, they just didn't find it necessary to run to BG with it. Why? I don't really know nor care.

    What i do care about is iron doing his usual douchebaggery and then pulls an urteil where he changes the focus so noone notices he's really the tool. Yeah i'm a rager, I get upset at stupidity and other such nonsense. But then again, arguing on the internet it is inevitable. Facts remain, iron was wrong and had to be a douche and try to play it off like he wasn't, then displaces focus onto my "raging" habits. Okay bro, stay cool.

    In the end, all this does is allow SAM to stay relevant, the outcome probably wouldn't change much if you instead decide to bring a wagnarock war or drk in the samurai's place. The stanced hahava might die slower, but overall this strat only allows sam to outparse top-tier war or drk by about 10% (20,000ish dmg over 250,000 total). Im sure the samurais who want to be relevant in legion do appreciate keityan's post, and that's good enough for me.
    Sorry for all the nerd raging, i'll go back to my corner and probably never post again, unless iron tries to be a douche to someone i know, yet again.

  16. #1316
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    idk what your group setup is but it seems like thief is not a slot you need to be subbing out in an event where you get 1-2 shots per run at the only desirable items outside of scrolls to sell

  17. #1317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taint View Post
    Amen to that....

    And its sad when people can play 2/3 accounts better then most people can play their main.
    We should make a BG ls with everyone that seems/is know to be good !

  18. #1318
    Claustrum. Really?
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    I wish someone would! My events are seriously limited at the minute since everyone seems to do events when I'm at work!

  19. #1319
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccl View Post
    We should make a BG ls with everyone that seems/is know to be good !


    Test server

  20. #1320
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdgreg View Post
    What's the consensus on precast sets for whm in legion? With the lag spikes and 2000+ R's I wonder how often I'm finishing cures in the wrong set. Considering using precast only for curagas, thoughts?

    edit: I'm always /sch if that factors into the discussion
    I've never had any issue with lag in Legion, is this really a widespread issue? I told my LS I was going to parse a run out of curiosity and someone was telling me not to because the game lags too much already and I wont be able to play. I had no issues with all filters off and running the parse.

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