Random Fail XIII: I FOR FUCKING LAST TIME TALLING YOU

[Shenrien]

Fail troll, has been said dozens of times before.

[Bukadan]

its not really being elitist to ask people to come up gear sets for whatever situation they CHOOSE to be a part of. think of it this way: you absolutely wouldn't wear a lebron james miami heat jersey with pants baggy as fuck to country fest and expect even HALF as much ass as you would have gotten if you just wore the correct country fest ass hunting attire!: a cowboy hat, plaid shirt, and at the very least the boots. i feel pretty good about that comparison, unkeh?

[Rocl]

its not really being elitist to ask people to come up gear sets for whatever situation they CHOOSE to be a part of. think of it this way: you absolutely wouldn't wear a lebron james miami heat jersey with pants baggy as fuck to country fest and expect even HALF as much ass as you would have gotten if you just wore the correct country fest ass hunting attire!: a cowboy hat, plaid shirt, and at the very least the boots. i feel pretty good about that comparison, unkeh?

What

[Bukadan]

i do feel bad about not inviting some gimps that are actually nice people though, sometimes ill let one in for the tryout

[Diomer]

its not really being elitist to ask people to come up gear sets for whatever situation they CHOOSE to be a part of. think of it this way: you absolutely wouldn't wear a lebron james miami heat jersey with pants baggy as fuck to country fest and expect even HALF as much ass as you would have gotten if you just wore the correct country fest ass hunting attire!: a cowboy hat, plaid shirt, and at the very least the boots. i feel pretty good about that comparison, unkeh?

This post won't be nearly as funny to people that don't know him, but he was undoubtedly high out of his mind writing it and it made perfect logical sense.

PS I miss you Buka

[Myrrh_Quetz]

So some back story to this. Doing some Delve, Poring kept flooding pt chat with "Say if you need haste" over and over. I said "Just do a haste Cycle", he flips his shit at me saying I was trolling or botting, this was all I could get from the chat log but it's a good 90% of the entire /p chat.

Spoiler: show

Bit of a long read but still funny. I would have shut up after the haste comment but he wouldn't stop so finally I said fuck it and had my fun. I missed doing that.

Holy fuck, I need to refix that SS. Will do that now

[Sofo]

So some back story to this. Doing some Delve, Poring kept flooding pt chat with "Say if you need haste" over and over. I said "Just do a haste Cycle", he flips his shit at me saying I was trolling or botting, this was all I could get from the chat log but it's a good 90% of the entire /p chat.

Spoiler: show

Bit of a long read but still funny. I would have shut up after the haste comment but he wouldn't stop so finally I said fuck it and had my fun. I missed doing that.

Holy fuck, I need to refix that SS. Will do that now

Delve has brought all the incompetent melees to have to play mage jobs, and they do an even worse job at that. Ugh, been finding some in Ragnarok groups as well. Something as basic as a Haste cycle requiring a bot.

[Xantavia]

I know its free gil, but really? I'm insulted.

[Hitou]

Oh snap, I forgot it's been 3 days, I need to use another charge.

[bechyni]

So some back story to this. Doing some Delve, Poring kept flooding pt chat with "Say if you need haste" over and over. I said "Just do a haste Cycle", he flips his shit at me saying I was trolling or botting, this was all I could get from the chat log but it's a good 90% of the entire /p chat.

Spoiler: show

Bit of a long read but still funny. I would have shut up after the haste comment but he wouldn't stop so finally I said fuck it and had my fun. I missed doing that.

Holy fuck, I need to refix that SS. Will do that now

Should of stayed on Carbuncle, I was heartbroken that you left

[Tatatoothy]

So some back story to this. Doing some Delve, Poring kept flooding pt chat with "Say if you need haste" over and over. I said "Just do a haste Cycle", he flips his shit at me saying I was trolling or botting, this was all I could get from the chat log but it's a good 90% of the entire /p chat.

Spoiler: show

Bit of a long read but still funny. I would have shut up after the haste comment but he wouldn't stop so finally I said fuck it and had my fun. I missed doing that.

Holy fuck, I need to refix that SS. Will do that now

I ran into this guy attempting T2/3's in aby a few weeks ago, and left when he saw my group of three scouting the zone, saying he hates cc for souls because "it's bad enough trying to camp against bots" or something. Meanwhile, it was just me, another PC, and a 360 in my group (derp). We finished two sets of souls in about 10-12 days at about 2-3 hrs/day (lol shush), and I think him and his mule army are still working them, probably.

I've not done Delve (too gimp), but is it even worthwhile/possible/efficient to bring mule accompaniment (either field or fracture)?

[Myrrh_Quetz]

Should of stayed on Carbuncle, I was heartbroken that you left

I miss Carby too, everyone there was awesome and sadly I couldn't get my RL friends to come. They wanted to stay on Quetz.

[The Stig]

Was digging through my hard drive for something and found this:

Was made in 2006, according to the notepad file, not sure why I saved it:

I love playing as my dragoon at 40, (it's not flashy, but it gets the job done) but with every frustration, I'm more or less beginning to understand why all other damage-dealing class players say "Well, dragoons have good DOT, but..."

I'm going to focus on the idea of dragoon as a damage-dealer because that's quite clearly what SE intended for them, and quite frankly, that's what I'd invite a dragoon for...when there's nothing else available. The assumptions are top-of-the-line gear for whatever level tier we're thinking of and equally-skilled players who know what to do with the jobs they're playing. While I've participated in my share of "this is what SE should do for the DRG" threads, I'll make no such suggestions here.

1) Damage is the most important thing, and for some (like myself), it's the only thing.

No spiked damage. Anywhere. When the party's in danger due to a pop & link, I can depend on most classes to yank out their 2 hour to save the day, Last Resort + Berserk + <add weapon skill here>, or even a Weapon Skill for a huge damage spike, but when it comes to me to supply something for this emergency, what do I have to give - Double Thrust (hah!), Penta Thrust (again, hah!), or Jumps?

I mean, for comparison, let's look at the samurai, right? Samurai isn't a big damage dealer like the dark knight or ranger, they're more of a support fighter in that they're almost always going to have enough TP to do a weapon skill and more importantly open or close a skillchain when needed. They don't get innate damage boosts like the DRG, WAR, or DRK - that's what their skillchains are for. They do more damage in a pinch than a DRG, who is supposed to be a big damage dealer (don't tell me they weren't meant to be, not with a large two-handed weapon with a long delay).

No damage buffs other than what my subjob offers me. Me, I prefer warrior, so that's Berserk. Berserk's nice (and at 70, Warcry), but every other damage dealing class gets that and more. It doesn't even matter how long they last or how little you say they affect damage itself, the fact remains that other damage dealing classes have multiple ways of boosting their damage and damage potential, while the dragoon has no innate damage boosts.

Jumps are not damage boosts. Jumps are cool, but they don't add a substantial amount of damage to an attack and they can miss - think of it as 'ghetto zanshin with a 50/50 success rate.' Now normally, this ain't a big deal because it's just an annoyance in an otherwise well-balanced character (note: well-balanced does not equal top-tier or even second-tier), but when I need a jump to fill in that crucial 2% TP I need right now because my high-delay lance just missed, only to see it fail, it pisses me off like you would not believe.

Super Jump would be nice if dragoons could actually pull hate at 50. As it is, every other damage-dealing class is getting their third-stage damage, accuracy, or speed bonus at this time (more on this later), and the dragoon gets left behind. A pity, since I'm having so much fun lessening my hate with High Jump.

Added to this is that jumps themselves have jack for range, making it just another fancy melee attack. I was under the misconception that jumps had the range of missile weapon, and I was wrong.

Connected to this is that polearm weapon skills generally suck. When I'm using Double Thrust until level 60, and then have to work with a minimally accurate five-hit weapon skill like Penta Thrust, there's something wrong. Added to the fact that Double Thrust itself is a dodgy skill - if I hit once, it's no better than a normal attack, and if I hit twice, it's not enough damage to actually matter - and you can see my complaints about the weapon skills. If the character had a weapon with poor weapon skills, but the abilities to actually make its DOT count as well as the option to choose from multiple weapons (re: Dark Knight), it'd be acceptable, but the dragoon doesn't and it isn't.

Polearms have no AoE attacks. Not a real problem, since most party wipes are caused by AoE, but just an observation.

Dragoons cannot use ranged weapons, further shortening their vaunted versatility as well as killing their chances of clawing their way out of the bottom of the DD pool because some of the most desirable (and let's be honest here, for those thinking of Optical Needles, some of the most desirable yet not impossible to attain) throwing and ranged weapons add damage, accuracy, and substantial stat boosts that the dragoon cannot attain from other sources (and if the dragoon can use it, then so can other DD classes, thus beginning the start of a very slippery slope). Sure, they can use throwing weapons like pebbles and tathlum, but why?

Don't even bring the wyvern into this - I love my Himmelskralle, but when both of your Artifact Armors focus on the inherent weaknesses of your pet (mostly in keeping it alive), there's a problem. There's even more of a problem when the wyvern dies (as it often does) because it has no resists or immunities. (Raise your hand if your wyvern has died of poison {before level 25, of course} simply because it was too stupid to get away from the mob's face.) The fact that SE didn't give the dragoon Spirit Link during its creation indicates what kind of lack of foresight went into this character; it's an insult that the Link had to be given at level 25, the point when your average player would have long lost patience with the dragoon and the limited life of its pet.

In addition, I get more complaints about the wyvern getting in the tanks' line of sight than anything else.

Did I mention that dragoons are poor WS partners? If we wanted versatility, we'd be able to SC with anyone, but can't.

2) The dragoon has nothing to offer the party that anyone else can do better - don't even bring drg/whm into this, if I wanted a healer, I'd get a whm/xxx, rdm/whm, or smn/whm. Damage we've already covered: the ranger can outdamage just about everything as well as pull, dark knight is the master of spiked damage and big numbers (when he staggers BW + LS + 'zerk, you know it's going to be a big hit...if it doesn't miss) with Stun, and the warrior possesses a versatility that no other class can match, much less a one-weapon wonder like a dragoon, not to mention those wonderful, wonderful breaks. Oh, and useful with a pet? Beastmaster - the character itself might not be powerful, but the pets he can use are, and a skilled BST is incredibly useful in a party. The dragoon already has poor skillchain potential, why should I choose one over a samurai? If I need big damage with debuffs, I'll get a warrior with a great axe. If I need big damage with hate control, I get a thief, who can also pull. If I need a secondary tank, I'll get a war/nin.

What does a dragoon have to offer - damage over time? It's called a monk, folks: that's DoT with faster speed, greater accuracy, the ability to heal itself, and better all-around weapon skills. And if your wyvern's dead, I hope you have a ton of accuracy gear because you've just lost a good third to half of your total damage; you are, in the words of another dragoon, "a gimped warrior holding a slow weapon with sh*tty weapon skills."

Let's get into 30 second party buffs, without counting the circles. There's only two, really: Paladin gets Rampart, Warrior gets Warcry...and these guys are useful without those skills. Dragoon? Nothing, which is ironic considering that these party buffs are huge hate makers, and what class can shed hate faster than any other?

Oh, and dragon killer? When's the last time you've faced a dragon?

3) Incredibly limited development that leaves the dragoon at the mercy of her subjob. No more traits after 30. No multiple tiered damage or accuracy bonuses. No resists at all (for whatever that's worth). Unlike the thief (assassin), dragoons get no traits to empower already existing skills (trick attack). Unlike the red mage (fast cast) or ranger (quick draw), the dragoon has no traits to speed up an already slow offense. I was somewhat impressed by the dragoon's attack bonus until I remembered that a dark knight gets four of them. I was loving the dragoon's accuracy bonus until I remembered that the ranger gets four of them. The dragoon gets no traits that could possibly differentiate her from other damage dealers, allow her to claim superiority in any realm, or assist the party, making her a grudging weak sauce. I've been told to trust my dragoon's accuracy bonus and not go nuts on accuracy gear, but nearly every dragoon on my server uses the full accuracy package and still manages to miss just as much as everyone else, so there you go. This lack of job traits and abilities is an poor foundation to build a character on, just another reason I'm beginning to hate on my class, especially as I'm nearing the 50s, when my fellow DDs and competition are already into the third stage of their attack, accuracy, defense, and speed bonuses.

4) Because the dragoon's job traits are so incredibly limited, I'm not only stuck with the exact same equipment requirements other DDs get because my job abilities (or lack thereof) do not allow me a comfortable 'cushion' to work against - accuracy, accuracy, and more accuracy - but because my dragoon's equipment list is more limited and has no corresponding equivalents in leather, harness, or scale, I actually get less. (For example, most DRKs focus on accuracy first and are actually somewhat lax on damage because of all the damage bonuses and boosts that they inherently get. The DRG has no such luxury in equipment choices and must consistently go for accuracy as well, knowing full well that damage is going to suffer.)

For example, sniper rings, life belt, merman's gorget? Fine, dragoon can equip those. Hauby - there's some damage and accuracy I'll never see as a dragoon. A small complaint because the haub is expensive as sin, but there you go. Yeah, there's an assault jerkin, but that's at level 67, and it still sucks compared to any armor other damage dealers can wear at 59. Again, none of the dragoon's job traits or abilities can compensate for any deficit in accuracy or damage, so if we pull hard in one direction, we get screwed in the other, and attempting to find a middle ground makes us inferior all-around.

tl;dr - loldrg

[Teryu]

Guy getting pissy about me calling him out for QMing himself in delve.



I'm not wrong here am I? <_<

[Myrrh_Quetz]

Sounds like you're both idiots.

[grevenilvec75]

It's Veli, what'd you expect?

[Richybear]

If the same guy is setting up multiple runs, they usually QM for the last minute or so and count it towards the next pop's cost. That way it's not people spamming "OMG cast lots" and without fail 2 or 3 people don't and a bunch of Airlixirs hit the floor. It's not a big deal and should just be common sense.
If it's the last run, they usually just hand the extra ones that got QM'd out.

[Kohan]

I'm not wrong here am I? <_<

I don't believe that what they did was entirely underhanded. As they noted, they paid for a pop that you benefitted from, and wanted to recoup their investment. Saleable status of plasm-bought materials aside, I see nothing wrong with this.

They could have told everyone their plans beforehand, though. Would have prevented this misunderstanding.

[Fake]

I'm not wrong here am I? <_<

You kicked up a fuss over shit that I'm guessing would have otherwise been lost, or massively ditracted from the last few minutes of the run while people focus entirely on the treasure pool rather than squeezing in a few extra kills.

You can argue principle but 50k-200k in airlixers isn't even worth bringing up.

If people creating group wanted to lot every airlixer that drops I wouldn't hold it against them, for having to deal with the hoard (I'm aware that isn't the issue, I'm just surprised people don't do this).

[Taint]

You kicked up a fuss over shit that I'm guessing would have otherwise been lost, or massively ditracted from the last few minutes of the run while people focus entirely on the treasure pool rather than squeezing in a few extra kills.

You can argue principle but 50k-200k in airlixers isn't even worth bringing up.

If people creating group wanted to lot every airlixer that drops I wouldn't hold it against them, for having to deal with the hoard (I'm aware that isn't the issue, I'm just surprised people don't do this).

We typically give the popper the pops worth of airlixirs on NQ runs. Our LS takes all +1s when we do NMs in Fracture. Nobody ever complains since the random people get their KIs and get to FL the drops.